Children in Wales

by MacEachern Ian

children in wales rollei s kodak tri x pan maceachern ian

Gallery: Single Photos

Tags: rollei 35s wales children kodak tri-x pan

Category: Uncategorized

Published: Monday 2nd of July 2001 03:42:56 AM


Ben Torres Jr.
Excellent Nice photo of life in this neighborhood. Who knows what these kids are running from. Very cool.

Bill Tootell
Wonderful You've captured the spirit of life in this neighborhood. Thanks.

jay d
you've caught a great feeling, good job.

Axel Cordes
Great How is it possible that there are ratings with just 4 ??? This is realy great! I would love to have one of yours in my "pocket"... Also I'm teached by this images!

Olivia Ogren
Simple and Timeless The only thing missing is a dog, with a ball in its mouth, running ahead of the boys. . . All of your images are captivating. They tell a story. Your timeless photojournalism inspires me.

Daniel Childs
you are a great photographer. can you teach me.

Tony Dummett
Aesthetics 10, Originality 9 A masterpiece. The composition is astonishing. The action is perfect.

Zapata Espinoza
Aesthetics 8, Originality 6 Ok, but why do you show it HERE!?

Terrance Young
Sublime... Beautiful shot Ian. Thanx for giving us a peek at a wonderful story. Keep up the good work. Wonderful satire Mary Ball. We're probably better off ignoring Mr. Schuler and his "sad truths" =)

Jason Wu
Amazing. This picture is great. The more I stare at it, the more I let my imagination run wild, the more the children look like clay models on a miniature city scape. Like others have noted, sometimes pictures catch moments so perfectly that your mind is forced to think it can't be real. You have great talent. Thank you for sharing, I enjoyed this photograph greatly.

Joachim Gerstl
Wonderful ! This is art. Ian has maybe the best portfolio online at

Emre Safak
Dear Mary, I think the reason why some people object to the choice of the POW is because they often lack composition. Instead, they use one thing or another as a bait to lure people away from the truth that it is not the photographer's interpretation that is pleasing, but the subject itself. I'm writing this thinking of quite a few nudes and the odd Velvia shot. I am not defending the position that B&W is desirable, nor that color can not be the centerpiece of a photograph. Many B&W pictures are pretentious attempts at high art; but the last two POW clearly have substance.

Chris VenHaus
Mr. Spinak.... By adding Mary's response to you, and the fact that some of your comments were deleted- I'm assuming your comments were less than flattering about me... Whatever you may think of me, my critique was well thought-out. I will elaborate further: The way the image stands as-is, the buildings are a VERY interesting element. I agree that the contrast, shapes, and textures of the buildings are appealing, however the buildings lead my eye from the lower upper third of the image to the upper right corner. My suggestion was for the artist to slightly crop the top buildings in order to decrease the natural tendency for my eye to be led to the URC. This would also create more emphasis on the hedgerow, fence, and telephone pole (which form an "arrow") leading the eye towards the children. Upon further reflection, the object in the LRC isn't a big deal, so I could do with or without. BTW, I gave this image a 8/7- hardly out of line with other ratings.

Chris Battey
A lovely picture, reminds me of Roger Mayne's work in Glasgow. Housing in Wales hasn't changed so much since the 1970's, so this could represent today as much as then, especially in the valley's. I think the Rollie camera is a small rangefinder, am I right? Because rangefinders benefit from the persistant viewfinder, allowing you to click away without 'blackout' that you get with a mirror based SLR. This can help to catch the moment. I love the childrens little legs, were they running or skipping? Lovely stuff.

Daniel Bayer
Kodachome 25 anyone?? If this were to have been shot in color back in the "Day" I suspect that it is what would have been used. Ian, I would not change any of the cropping here despite the what the comments above might suggest, this image keeps a genuine feel by including the "Messy Vitality" of life around it. As for Dennis's comment above about "Cookie Cutter" kids??? This is why I wish photoshop were never invented. The fact that photos are now subject to such skeptical scrutiny is really ashame not to mention the Digital composites and creations that are not clearly put in that category. I think this is a well deserved POW. I also think this for it's content............not the fact that it is B+W. Some of my favorite images of my own are in both color and Black & White. Snowy Animal tracks is my favorite image in my own gallery. I could not imagine Horses and rainbow or the paragliding shot as B+W. I guess I am sick and tired of some of the comments around here implying that for a photo to be great, it has to either be black and white or have a person in it. I have PLENTY of "Social Documentary" type photos that have won awards over the years, I choose to share the images I do because I am sooooooo tired of the same dried up Ethiopian scenes from James Natchwey and Steve McCurry taking POY in the NPPA contests every year (Most of those are now in that dreaded color stuff too folks). We all know what images from New York will take it the pulitzer next year. Photography started in a monotone scheme. I often think it is way too easy for photographers to deal with a color problem by simply shooting black and white, your getting rid of the distraction of maybe not so great light or color then aren't you....waaaay too easy indeed!! We SEE in color guys, accept that!! Please don't bash the fact that REAL world is indeed in color. There are some nice POW's on this site, many in B+W and many in color. I think I would of liked this image just as much if it were shot on K-25 for it is the moment, not the damn film. Everything starts as C O L O R!!! Get OVER it and look at the content!!! Good job Ian, the thread and opinions are growing. I think "Asylum is good stuff too but needs a tighter edit, my opinion though :-) db

Brian Kennedy
Aesthetics 10, Originality 9 As good as it gets. Beautiful work, Ian.

Christin Jemming
This is an amazing piece. So many questions... Where are they running? Are they running to somewhere, or from something? Their little backs are so straight and all those feet in the air and arms pumping, it gives almost a comic-book feel to the moment. I have been looking at this for 15 minutes and am not tired of it yet. Bravo!

Vuk Vuksanovic
something to consider Not much time on my hands at the moment, but (in light of certain critical comments) I just had to let everyone know that Ian does not have access to a decent film scanner. The one he uses is nothing short of appalling and it says quite a bit about his photos that they can survive the process enough to generate a considerable positive reaction among so many. I have seen the prints and the prints are very, very good--Ian is not just an excellent photographer, but a master printer, as well. It's too bad he insists on using that nasty, grainy Tri-X ;-) More later.

Paul Ashton
Highly Evocative The camera angle makes this shot, along with the action. It may not be perfect in terms of composition but those kids are just about perfectly situated and their shadows simply add to the overall effect. I am young again, in Oswestry (almost Wales!) and I am running away from Mr. Jones, not toward Mr. Edwards. Like last week, this PoW takes me back across the pond to an earlier time. Thank you - I am old enough to be horribly nostalgic, which probably explains why I like this photo so much.

Robert Goldstein
It's not perfect OK, I agree that the subject matter and composition are wonderful, but this image has an overall flat tonality, almost as though it is a bit underexposed. I would like to see it resubmitted with more contrast.

Tomiko Dayama
I reckon I'm archiving for future printers, Mr. Caird... ...but even so, you're quite right, most emulsions I use look better at 3000 dpi (or LESS) than at higher resolutions (unless you are working on a dissertation on the subject of "grain"). Time also seems to run backwards when scanning at full resolution... I admit I like to use big files so that I get better control of color correction (Photoshop 16-bit mode), and so that I can make Super B-sized prints today. Still, you're quite right, in my view - outside of our labs, I just don't find printers which really do such large prints justice. Mainly, though, I just inserted that "exclamation" because we had a lot of fruitless debate going on - so I was just being bad and introducing another debating point. I'm disappointed only you even noticed, for which I thank you. I guess everyone "got" the Latin - I'll have to try harder next time.

Tim VanBlaricom
One Other Funny Thing... That bears a little question 'cause it's so prevalent around here. By what percentage do you estimate the average score for IR photography on would drop if the photograph were submitted in color? I'm guessing 30% at least.

Dan Osterberg
The POWs lost their color... (maybe oversaturation is next?) This is another wonderful POW. The composition is excellent, the texture is great and the atmosphere is right there. I love the triangularity and to me, the shadow from the telephone pole looks like the starting or finishing line of a race the kids are racing. No cropping is needed, but cropping a bit from the left side could perhaps be considered (not suggested, though). I certainly wouldn't crop much from the top, as suggested earlier. Wonderful work, Ian!

Mary Ball
Children in Wales (First paragraph deleted with great respect to M. Spinak after receiving a greater understanding via e-mail which is probably the better place for non-critique communications) I am enjoying the dialog on color vs black and white.. although I don't really have a problem with black and white. Love it. Love this deserving POW.. Also do agree Ian needs a scanner - I also noticed the flatness (milkyness) but suspected it was the scan! Thanks Vuk for your info. It is the super negativity and condemnation/strong opinionated absolutes that just kill me and I think it is so offputting to people and does not foster creativity. We've seen some newcomers comments about the members ripping into people and elves and images and spitting them out in such a arrogant way. I'm hoping it stops. Is there anyone out there besides me that would like to see decent yet honest critiques? I saw one recently. It was a critique by Philip Greenspan on a nude. It was one of the best critiques I've ever read. It purposefully outlined the positive and the negative as well as insight on improvements. It was kind and it was honest at the same time. In this world of bickering and strife and ill-will -- maybe we can rise above it all.

Rienk Jiskoot
Look at his Portfolio and start rating double 8 and 9! Hi Ian, Finally you made it. Last week's choice was already a double niner as far as the elves are concerned. This week a very very underrated photographer got the price. Maybe now people will look at your portfolios and started giving out double nines to put you somewhere in the top ten. It's a shame you weren't there all the time already. Congratulations on this great picture. And thanks elves, for making a b/w pic picture of the week two weeks in a row. Now there's still Mr. Jo Voets waiting to get his pic of the week (y'all can choose out of about a hundred premium b/w pics). Rock on elves, long live the revitalised pic of the week contest!

Vuk Vuksanovic
Hey Dennis, I'll bet you one of those collector edition $7K Leicas this wasn't altered in any way. Vuk.

Jodie Coston
Absolutely one of the best photos I've seen here. Originally I looked at it in October for the first time, and I thank the elves for bringing it to my attention once again. To be able to capture the spirit of childhood like this, on film, is amazing. Congratulations on POW. You deserved it long before now, for any one of the masterpieces in your portfolio.

Umit D
Excellent, a masterpiece created out of nothing, just the right time. I wouldn't touch the composition and wouldn't crop, it would be too simple, would say 'kids are running, don't you see' in your face and you wouldn't like it more the more you looked at. Cross road contributes positively too. Even the post doesn't look bothersome, because it makes a connection from bottom to top I think.

luis cota
For Dennis I like the picture ... I wish I could have been running with them :) To Dennis: There is lots of research in psychology that leads (cognitive psychologists) to believe that when you look "for" something, you are much more likely to find "clues" that suggest something exists. To give you an example, if you look for photoshop's effects, you are more likely to find them than if you did not specifically look for them.

Mary Ball
Children There seems to be an awfully large number of photographers here that seem to feel that if it isn't black and white classic photography - it isn't worthy of accolades. I love Ian's work as well as Tony Dummit and Miguel Mealha who are among my favorites. There is something pure and wonderful in the stories they tell and the lives and/or activities they depict. However, I - for one - do not agree that these are the only type of images worthy of a POW. That is what I'm gleaning from some purists on photo net over these months of watching the POW picks. I think that some of the color/macro/scenic/fall leaves/portraits etc... type of images are very much as wonderful for different reasons. As much as I love this image - and I do - I would be truly sorry to see only this genre constantly picked as POW. This should be a POW - don't get me wrong. But I like variety too... A few classic B&W's, a few macro's, a few IR images, a few scenics, a few portraits, abstracts and yes, even a few photoshop images... They all have a place here and as expected - many will continue to be controversial. I guess what I am saying is that the elves do a great job every week - whether I like the photo or not - by choosing a wonderful cross section of types of work. Congrats Ian on POW. I particularly love the elongated shadows of the children in this shot.

Daniel Bayer
Chris, I didn't say that I dislike black and white and maybe it was a little harsh to say that it is almost a photographic simplification. I love the stuff! I don't want to bash Black and White and certainly did not of Ian's image. It's just the almost constant "FINALLY"'s that seem to emerge as of late. I find black and white to be as a whole alot easier to work with in terms of subject matter and tonal range control. Color can be too easy too, it's just a matter of subject versus medium and the approach used.........I did say that my own favorite of my images is a black and white now didn't I? db

Cristi Petrescu-Prahova
the world is in colour... and in black and white. at least from our perspective. may i remember you that our eyes have different sensor cells for colour vision and light intensity vision? just go outside on a full moon and try to tell the grass color...

Philippe Gauthier
POW? Great! I always loved your pictures and I think the elves actually made a great choice for the second week in a row. You have a great eye for simple, yet attractive subjects with a high human interest. And the fact you captured this scene with a pretty simple camera also speaks for your talent. Good job. This is my favorite POW for a very long time.

Rich 815
Great shot The reason Dennis finds himself wondering if its real or altered is that when one sees a shot done well, done right, with the exposure perfect, the composition perfect, the scanning perfect and the "printing" perfect it all looks so good as to be unreal. Funny how the more "real" it looks and the more it jumps off the page, the more people wonder if its a fake. It's called good solid technique people! And more people should be focusing in on that than whether they should trade in their 2 year old AF, auto-everything camera for Nikon or Canon's newest and greatest. Look at this one! Taken with a P&S (albeit a very good one) on old B&W emulsion. Great job.

Ian Greant
great composition! This is terrific Ian, I really love the composition.
Your Rollei was a TLR yes? Do you think you would have shot it the same way with a zoom lens in your hand?

Jeff Greene
No paranoia here This is a worthy POW. Looks real to me. Fresh perspective. A moment well caught.

Steven Worthy
Great Shot! Ah, a fellow Rollei 35s user! Beautiful picture Ian! Your shot goes to show its not the camera doing the work but the photog thinking about his shot. The camera merely records it.

Rienk Jiskoot
Dear Mary... I have nothing against colour-photography, I have a portfolio with colour-pics myself. They are not my favourite , I'm very bad with colour, as you can see for yourself. My pleasure at seeing a b/w pic chosen as pic of the week two weeks in a row, is simply because I like b/w better. Of the pics of the week gallery, 20 are b/w (including the sepia-toned ones) and 53 are colour, so colourfans can't complain I guess. So don't understand me wrong here, i like colour pics, I even rate some of them! Hahaha, just kiddin'. Anyway, just because I'm doin' mostly b/w and I like this picture of the week, don't put me in a group of monochrome fetischists. Rienki

Todd West
Wow! This is about as perfect as photographs get. A cut above the rest of your work. I second Ken's comments.

Ken Thalheimer
How static this would be without the kids! This is very well composed and a compelling image of life in this neighborhood

Jeff Spirer
This photograph is well-captured, it has a great mood and feeling. However, I find it a bit tonally unbalanced, distracting from the lines that lead to the children, and would probably dodge right hand street. That would give it a bit more strength in the all-important bottom.

Marco Mugnatto
Now it make sense THIS one is REALLY G R E A T ! :-) At least for me

W Morgan
10/10 Another benchmark.

Lance Ball
I really like your picture, Ian. It also reminds me of Doisneau. Excellent work.

Bert Denda
An In Camera Session. Dennis, I have seen an original print of this and assure you that there is no photoshopping involved. The only coincidence with the position of the arms is Ian knowing exactly when to press the shutter release. BTW - this photo is also not cropped. It was all done pre PhotoShop and in camera.

Chris VenHaus
Hmmm... I like this image, but there are a couple of things about it that I don't care for. The first is the top of the image- too much emphasis on the buildings in the background for my liking-they simply occupy too much of the frame, IMO. It competes with the children for my attention. A crop slightly above the telephone pole, and a bit more cropping on the left side to remove the fence (or PS the fence out) would clean up the composition a bit, IMHO. Otherwise, a very fine image.

Stacey DeMarco
Complex, yet simple... The complexity of all the different angles and shadows makes this shot very interesting. I like seeing the corner where to the two streets meet, wondering what different things might be happening down each street. The simplicity, for me, is reflected in the children...simply running and playing!! As always, I love black and white. This is the way every day should be!! Wonderful...thanks for sharing.

Daniel Urban
Finaly some real POW Yes I think this is POW. The last times somebody gave us some snapshoots not art as a POW. Thnx for this picture.

Kurt Kramer
9/9 Finally, a truly worthy POW! What an eye. What timing! For me, the only thing that kept if from being a perfect 10 was the distraction of that tripod-like structure in the lower left. As a full-frame, uncropped shot, this is a real achievement, but for presentation, I think I would crop out just enough from the left edge to remove that distraction. Still, this is a great photograph, one that I will remember for a long time.

Will Moore
9/9 (nothing's perfect) Yes! A photo from one of my two favorite folders here on! The other one is "asylum" by the same guy. If you just looked at this one, I strongly urge you to look at the folder it came out of. Probably the best B&W photography here.

Mary Ball
Children in Wales Interesting Rienk... I did not realize that only 20 images had been chosen as POW and 53 color! That does seem to be unfortunatley imbalanced. Anyway, I am a lover of black and white and love it's qualities very much especially IR and black and white portraits! I talk all my clients into doing some black and white artistic photojournalism for their weddings -- even when they initially didn't think they cared for black and white. I'm a fan! I just get tired of comments that knock the elves choices when there are clearly people that love some of the other work. What I object to is comments that the elves have FINALLY chosen something of worth. Yes, it is a great photo. I just don't agree that some of the OTHER choices in the last few months were bad choices. I just needed to state that. And, Judging by the ratings and comments - I'm not the only one who thought some of them were excellent. Photo net is a place of many tastes and opinions. Personally, I try to find the good and the bad in any work, including my own. That balance helps to be inspired and encouraged by what you are doing right...and learning through honesty of others what doesn't work and needs improvement. Teachers do this and know how to encourage and critisize at the same time and the really good teachers do it well. I just object to absolutes especially when in the form of a negative comment. Now, I will say that all this is "In my opinion...." Because, after all, we are all entitled to our opinion. People that love this type of work above all else are also entitled to their opinion. I just wish we could see less negative critisizm about the choice itself.

Samuel Dilworth
This is great photography, inspirational to say the least. Composition is deliberately spontaneous, perfect to my eye. The light is an influential aspect of the whole, don’t you think, which isn’t so very often true in this type of photography.

The photo did strike me as being a bit flat. On closer inspection, it proved to be a pretty good compromise, but I feel I could make a richer print if I had the negative. Perhaps even some sacrificing of the extreme tonal scale was in order here.

The movement of the kids is almost miraculous, I agree, but I think we sometimes attribute too little of a great photograph’s merit to luck. Obviously you don’t get lucky if you haven’t pressed the shutter-release, but if you do take enough photos, eventually you will have a selection of pictures where luck has added the final stroke to the masterwork. Perhaps luck contributed here? (This doesn’t undermine the photographer’s expertise, just reinforces the need for constant practice.)

It is interesting to me that Ben Torres Jr. supposed the children were running from something, while they immediately struck me as running to something. Maybe I know enough about the Welsh to think there are few things indeed that make them run away.

A tribute to the hardiness of working-class life in Britain in the seventies. And to the indomitable human spirit, capable of rousing beauty and joy amidst any circumstances.

Ian MacEachern
This was quite a surprise....didn't think it happened until midnight. I appreciate the very kind comments. The camera is (was) a small viewfinder model with a wonderfully sharp 40mm lens. The Tri-X was not pushed, the kids weren't pasted in, it is not cropped, and the print isn't flat, but the scan is. I went for detail more than dynamics in the final posted photo. The first image I posted had better blacks, but lost a lot of detail in the brickwork. I very quickly replaced it.

Tony Dummett
Film itself is several steps away from reality, Dave. Color images are very much dependent upon exposure, cast, emulsion and so on. B&W images are just one step further away than color. Color and B&W composition can be and are often radically different, given a particular scene. Anyway, isn't it emotional reality we're after, not "actual" reality?

Tony Dummett
"James", Frank Hurley could have told you the answer to that question. He didn't have a scanner (it was 1915, after all), but he did use 8x10 inch glass plates, or in a pinch (like when he was setting up to photograph the real "James Caird", about to set sail for South Georgia from Elephant Island) he used 5x4 inch glass plates. If most of his prints were only up to a maximum of 16x20 inches, why did he bother with such large size, high definition originals, especially when they caused so much trouble (e.g. lugging them several hundred miles from the wreck of the Endurance to Elephant Island) and cost so much money? Because he could, "James", because he could. P.S. All B&Ws too!

Jennifer Kwasniewski
Valid point Solly, there is no battle without an opponent. I use this strategy with people all the wonders :) !! I'm with Daniel. I want to know more about this photo. Picking the brain of a great photographer is a wonderful learning tool. I like the cropping on this photo. Leaving the housing adds substance to the photo. It gives an idea of the lifestyle these children have and/or maybe running from? I too would like to know how Ian managed this shot. Were you up shooting down and the kids happened by? Or were they playing back and forth and you decided a better vantage point would be up high? In response to Daniel's question.... I shoot a roll or two a week. I only have limited access to a darkroom (6-9 hours per week)and can't even print what I shoot now. But since I just invested in medium format, I also, cannot stop!! As for POW...I don't know what all the fuss is about. Like life, we will not all agree on what is a worthy POW. It's the difference's that make it interesting. I may not like a POW, that doesn't make it a "poor" choice, just means that my interests are different, maybe even just on that particular day. I think POW can be random photos brought up for discussion. They can also be great images that express artistic expression. I agree with Daniel, it doesn't necessarily have to be the "best" of the week. There are far too many photographers and images on this site to think that anyone could underatke that daunting task of choosing just "one best". For this week and THIS photo, I was compelled to respond. Congratulations againt to Ian on a wonderful POW. I'm glad he was kind enough to share it on this website.

Tomiko Dayama
Mr. MacEachern's work is beautiful I won't repeat the many comments on the lovely form and liveliness of composition. But this is inspiring - there is a subtlety in black and white which is appealing, and which I must seek out more. Mr. MacEachern's folder's, and others, have many such beautiful, subtle moments. This been a good thread! So much shared learning!We should have some Canon vs. Nikon, 35 mm. vs. larger format, Gitzo vs. Manfrotto discussion to round things off. O, I'm just joking. Please, let's not rouse our more voluble members to more lectures about the meaning of truth...and our own limited abilities to understand it. I find Mr. Caird's statements of the "theorem" of photography curious, though. I thought photos resulted from the collection, interpretation, and presentation of photons for pleasure and information. I missed the class where it was narrowed down to the requirement that only film and darkrooms be involved. Theorem, in Greek, English, and mathematics, implies a proof. I must have been poring over KH-11 "photos" the day that proof was announced. And those poor people working with Hubble. Is all that work a sham, since they use that CCD? Should I resign from GLAST, since we all know gamma rays are not visible to the naked eye - so any output from our work will require that photons be blatantly abused by physicists armed with computers? Or am I missing your point, Mr. Caird? I could have sworn I shot a photo of the Buran in 1986 from 200 km above - but maybe it was something other?

David Doyle
Mr Caird, it was more in reference to this idiotic debate concerning color and b/w in terms of art and photography, which though in certain circles may have validity but in this instance with Herr Schuler at the helm seems to take on foolish proportions. And BTW Stiechen produced some interesting Autochromes in '07, grains of starch dyed 3 separate colors were used. Had to expose the plate from the back.

Chris Battey
Colour versus Black and White. To Daniel Bayer's comment. Daniel I thing that you're over simplifying the choice of B&W over Colour. Surely a good photographer would choose to photograph under the best circumstances with the best materials to achieve a specific goal. To suggest that some of us would load Black & White film as a means to make a dull scene somehow 'classic' is a little harsh. Yes the world is in colour, but so what? Sometimes the use of light and form can be more clearly interpreted without the distraction of reds and blues. Perhaps Black and white is not an option for many people here because the process is complicated and not so readily available. This shouldn't elevate the process to classic status. Working in Black and white is a valuable way of learning the craft of Photography, without the distractions of colour. The process may not be as symplistic as dropping your film at the lab, but perhaps this is a good thing. If you know that several hours of your own time are involved to bring your pictures to the table, then maybe the aspiring Photographer would 'think' before pressing the button.

Daniel Bayer
Best thread yet?? I think so. It has made me think. I have been pulling some black and white images out of my archives to upload.....while the roomates watch Billy Elliot, a film that could have done well to be shot in black and white. I have also created a new folder called "No artificial colors or ingredients" to put the new uploads in as well as move over the old "Bee & Dubbs". I will be away again at the end of this week as I leave Australia after a hard 5 months (Emotionally) to explore Thailand and Vietnam. I am doing doco style work over there on people, not landscapes or adventure sports. I am still going to shoot Provia 100 and 400 over there but ya never know........I might shoot some of that "Proper" stuff over there too, afterall I wouldn't want to pollute my vision with all those artificial colors and ingredients now would I :-) db

kerry pittenger
Aesthetics 9, Originality 9 Now THIS is a POW. Beautiful, pure, excellent tones. An incredible capture of a fleeting instant of life.

Jennifer Kwasniewski
Congratulations Ian!! Beautiful Image! Like all of your work, it's the story behind every image that makes the difference between taking pictures and art.This image leaves you wondering so many things. Like reading a good book that you can't put down, I think your images leave the viewer looking for more; maybe wanting to know the whole story that you just tease with in each photo. This, most definitely is a well deserved POW!!

Matt Miller
Sunny in Wales? Great photo! It feels familiar, like home, like Thanksgiving dinner. Can't make a good photo in bright sun huh? Thank you for sharing it.

Frank Mueller
Just wondering what it takes to become known as a B&W photographer around here. Tony Dummett was listed in the catogory, and his portfolio contains 26 B&W but 36 colour photos (I just counted). In fact, his POW is in colour! Is the underlying assumption 'good photographer = B&W photographer' showing through in some of the posts above? Just me pouring oil into the fire ;-) Wonderful shot by Ian. This is not your usual eye catcher. I suppose that's easier to achieve in colour, but can be done in B&W also, as eg. Chris Battey's photos 'Trish, Saturday Night' and 'Hawkeye's Portrait' show. Ian's work is much more quiet. 'Children in Wales' gets better the longer you look at it. Many thanks to the Elves for bringing it to our attention. The last two POWs have really been a revelation for me regarding composition. I think the short take home message is 'tight cropping is not everything', but of course it is much more complex than that. I am just hoping that with lots of practice I can incorporate at least some of this technique in my own work.

Jeff Spirer
Here's a good rule of thumb for you, something you could easily prove to yourself: a color photograph which does suck desatured of color is (and was) not a good photoigraph to begin with.

This is complete and total nonsense. Color theory shows us that relationships other than lightness and contrast exist in color. They don't in black and white. There are interesting color photographs (and paintings) that would be mostly one shade of grey when desaturated.

Simplistic reductionism of photography to composition is destructive. Photography is most of all about light, and the characteristics of light in color and monochrome are incredibly different.

I'd recommend a few introductory art classes...

David Doyle
Mr Richard Fedder pointed this out to me and I have some questions about these children in whales. How'd they get in there? Can they get out and are they OK? Is it like Jonah and the whale, can they see inside of the whale, are they getting enough to eat, I hope they aren't going hungry inside of that big nasty smelly whale, and ah what...nevermind.

Mark Hamlet
Great Shot Very nice shot. It has such an interesting angle that it really draws you into the frame. Well done.

Tony Dummett
Ian's portfolio struck me as a perfect example of how to make good pictorial use of empty space. Many of his photographs are not about the ostensible subject matter, but rather the environment they are part of... or (more accurately) the environment that Ian places them in, whether they know about it or not. He associates unrelated elements within many of his scenes and gives them a meaning in their new relationships that they did not originally have (or might not have been aware of). The kids running here are a good example: how could these children possibly be aware of the scene around them (being short people). It is Ian who brought the backyards and the children - separated by high fences - together in such a charming way. He does a lot of his work with wide angle or normal normal lenses, rarely telephotos. He stands back from his subject (again, in most cases) and includes the three dimensional scene around them in his two dimensional presentation. Much of the surrounding scenes are simple laneways, or fields, or sparsely furnished rooms... I think there is even an empty beach in the portfolio somewhere. Ian's photographs give these mundane wastelands meaning and connection with the people he is photographing, but only through the interpretation of his photographer's eye. I admire his skill in taking in the wider scene he is photgraphing, yet producing so often an intimate result. I've just realised... I didn't have to mention "Color vs. B&W" once.

Vern L. Weiss
Aesthetics 9, Originality 10 I like many things about this photograph. I especially like that it was taken at the right time of day. What I mean is that the childen's shadows lean at just the right angle to give an illusion of speed. A little more lean would still be O.K., but if the shadows leaned back, the illusion would be lessened.

Rienk Jiskoot
Blues Brothers Reading all these discussions about b/w versus colour,I keep thinking of the Blues Brothers quote, Mr. Belushi or Mr. Ackroyd tellin' the owner of the joint they're supposed to play in that "yes, sir, we're playin' both of them: Country AND Western..." :) Happy shooting to y'all, Rienk

Lisa Frost
Fantastic Congratulations on a magnificent photo. It makes me feel young and exuberant and leaves me wishing that I was running along side them! I don’t think anyone can do better than that.

Travis .
Great A very spontaneous shot...Nice work.

G .
At last a POW! Congratualtions Ian! Your portfolio has given me much to enjoy over an extended period of time and yet I still haven't seen half of it. Any one of your photos would be worthy of POW, and this is no exception. I reiterate what Tony has already said, about bringing the wider context to the viewer. As well as seeing the children in their environment, I really like the high viewpoint, the composition, and the shadows of the children. The feeling of space is tremendous, and seeing the children run through the streets like this brings their carefree and uplifting nature right to the viewer. Speaking as a somewhat 'jaded adult' I must say thanks!

Mary Ball
Opinions Are Not Facts QUOTED FROM PROFESSOR SCHULER: "But most of it's been dreck with a capital D, [INSERT: IN MY OPINION HERE] which might, just might explain the one or two (perceived or actually heard) sighs of relief from the wings around here the past week and a day when the site administrators bothered to look somewhat farther than normal for decent fare to showcase" [IN MY OPINION]." Yipee, I found a way to read Tirs Schuler without my blood boiling.... I just insert the words ["In my opinion"] in between his very strong and absolute statements and derogatory remarks towards those of us that actually enjoy the images he despises. I don't happen to agree with him but I guess I'm a nitwit [IN HIS OPINION]. Plus I'm over 40 and not a TV baby.. Imagine that. I admit he sometimes has some things to say (in my opinion) but I have trouble with his attacks on people with no taste (I guess that would be me.) By inserting IMO what he says becomes more palatatble and in some cases even interesting - In My Opinion --of course.

Scott Eaton
well, it needs help You see, I've actually studied the "hogwash" in graduate school with some of the most respected experts in the field

This from a guy who feels that the type of lens you use on a 35mm camera is a factor in making the grain vanish in a 6-foot print. Interesting - what University is this? {sorry, couldn't resist}

As for the POW, well, it's nice in terms of composition, but there are WAY too many grey tones, and the print (or scan) is in dire need of some good old dodging and burning. If you're going to use Tri-X, do the film some courtesy and give it the "life" it deserves. I also think the top third of the picture is un-necessary clutter and would have preferred the photographer focus in on more of the kids. However, I'm not 100% sure of this because some stronger printing (or neg processing) might make the houses on the top part of the frame more interesting.

I'm just thinking like a custom printer had I been handed this as a print and asked for advice. The over-all composition and concept is really, really good, but as a habit I tend to raise the level for B/W critiques.

Vuk Vuksanovic
now we know why Tris is here "With language, ignorance of rules almost always leads to nothing better than poor description and thus worse communication."

Tris, you're obviously out in left field here and display remarkable ignorance of current research and understanding in the branches of cognitive science/psychology that deal with the issues at hand. One begins to wonder how many other things you merely think you understand well enough to lecture others about.

"Of course you have the 'right' to have it your own way if you so choose, but I'm here to tell you it won't get you any place beneficial fast."

Do you really fail to see how any normal person would find this an incredibly arrogant and offensive thing to say?

Tony Dummett
Took the words right out of my mouth, Jeff. Tris's didactic pontificating (his own word for it was: "dictating") is only to get our blood running hot. He's challenging us to disagree with him, for the sake of argument. He couldn't possibly believe in that ridiculous statement.

David Doyle
Schwarz und Weiß mit den Farben Umm didn't these silly arguments about color and b/w get solved in the 60's?

Steve Strawn
Ahh, that's better. Flawless photo.

Tris, you're going to get carpal tunnel. Watch out.

Vuk Vuksanovic
Your remarks re art and language and "rules" are hogwash. But go ahead and prove me wrong.


I am not going to bore everyone here with what's required to explain this to you, but I can point you to articles in peer-reviewed journals. You see, I've actually studied the "hogwash" in graduate school with some of the most respected experts in the field (and carried out a bit of related research of my own, though it was not my area of specialization).

G .
Scott, perhaps the blacks could be a little blacker for some, but on my monitor they look fine. All too often I find monitors that are set too high on the brightness level. One studio I work in at college has 8 apparently 'top of the range' Macs and yet even if I put the brightness level to the lowest possible setting of 0% the darkest points [of any image] are still only dark grey. At home on my modest pc dell monitor the blacks are fine on 45% brightness. It's impossible to standardize the viewable results of jpegs, even when using a standardized callibration programme. What are the chances when there are so many models of monitors, combined with countless individual settings? It's the final print that counts in the end.

Ian MacEachern
No hotels. Trevor, We stayed in B&Bs and pubs, no hotels, not even cheap ones. Also, I'm Canadian, (and we found that it mattered in Britain).

Bert Denda
B/W “vs.” Colour: Yet Again Ian’s photo as POW has once again raised the BW/Colour and the “b/w is more worthy” debate. I think that each generation of photographers is confronted with these issues and has to deal with them again on an individual basis. What troubles me is that the BW or Colour choice seems to be seen as a confrontational/adversarial relationship by many. For me that is not - nor should it be - the case. I can’t help sidetracking into the issue of “realism” in the BW/Colour controversy. The instant you press the shutter release and allow light to pass through the camera lens all reality flies out the window. Reality is not subject to lens artifacts and distortions, emulsion or CCD aberrations, compressed dynamic range or selective (or limited) depth of field. Reality is three dimensional and is viewed from perverse perspectives and angles that we ignore (or adjust for) in reality, which would be unacceptable in a photographic composition. Photography allows us to selectively view our world by isolating/editing away the visual noise that clutters our wide angle vision into a focussed composition It traps in 1/30 of a second a static instant from the dynamic flow of time. To my mind any discussion of reality when it comes to photography borders on pointless. Photographs aren’t reality. They’re pictures. I think many forget that photography is an interpretive medium. It is a means of communication. It is story telling. It is a visual art which transcends reality and in that transcendence gives each of us the chance to interpret our emotions (or our view of reality) to others. It can span - albeit feebly - the epistemological gap that divides us. Oh, and did I mention that reality is in colour? As such, black and white is by far the more “unrealistic”. Its images are far more abstract. The real world of colour is shown in gradations of gray tones. The often radical changes in contrast that would result in abhorrence in colour photography (unless one is purposefully after abstraction) provide the interpretive tones that make b/w speak as eloquently as it does. Thus to my mind, b/w’s further distance from reality allows a far greater interpretive result. Does that make it better then colour? I think not. Do I mean that colour is incapable of interpreting emotion? Of course not. Social documentary work seems to work best in b/w while more pictorial or decorative efforts are often enhanced by the use of colour. Yet these ”dogmas” are often ignored - as they should be - with great success. Both are tools that need to be appropriately applied. Why are paintings in colour? Would they be ennobled if they were rendered via the gray scale? How about de Vinci’s “Lady with an Ermine” in black and white; let’s desaturate Hopper’s “Nighthawks”; let’s remove the color palette from Wyeth’s “Christina’‘s World” or drain all those golds and browns from Rembrandts “The Night Watch”. Why has the world of painting not embraced the gray scale? Photography is important to me. I don’t care whether the images are produced using the colour or the black and white mode. I only care that the right mode is used.

Michael Fruitman
Art Photography is painting. The film as our canvas, the light as our paint, and the camera is the tool or paintbrush we use. Film can either produce colour, or black and white images, and it is not up to the photogapher to chose the outcome of the images once film is loaded in. But if film is like our canvas, does that really make sense? Can a painting canvas predetermine if a painting will be in full colour or in black or white? No, it can't. It is up to the painter to chose how he/she wants the painting to look by buying the right paints. Don't get me wrong, a photographer can also chose if he/she wants their photos to be in black and white or colour, simply by purchasing the right film. But if the film is the canvas... On the other hand, a painter doesn't chose whether he/she wants her work to be in black and white or colour by buying the right canvas, because a canvas doesn't determine this. It is the paint that determines this. The right canvas for a desired painting is any canvas. In photogaphy if the film is our canvas, the right film is any film just like in painting. Also, if the light is our paint, does the light determine if the photo will be in black and white or colour once we have a film loaded in the camera that dictates the light regarless if the scene is colour or not? No, the film determines what the photo will look like.(Either in black and white or colour). So, the right light is any light. If this is all true, is there really such a thing as a bad photo? Nope, they're all good. The right photo is any photo.

Bert Denda
Comment to Morwen I couldn’t agree with you more regarding your comments about the monochromatic work of Leonardo and Rembrandt. (In fact, I am a huge admirer of Durer’s etchings and have had the pleasure of holding some of his original works in my own hand in the archives of a museum in Berlin in 1977) However, the “stark intensity and detail” you justly ascribe to the works you cited doesn’t make them any more valid or meaningful. It just makes them different. The thrust of your observations here run parallel to something you submitted earlier in this forum: “There is a very widespread inclination, beyond photography and even beyond the arts, to hold that anything achieved with sparser means is purer, loftier, more refined. This is obviously a wild generalization, but sometimes there might be some truth in that principle” Simplicity is not, as I see it , exclusively the domain of the b/w photograph. A b/w photo can be just as cluttered as a cluttered colour work. If you’re attributing simplicity exclusively to the use of b/w (or lack of colour) I think you’re oversimplifying simplicity :) I believe that simplicity is achieved more by cropping and view point (and subject) then by the photographers choice of a gray scale or a colour palette. I do agree though - strongly - that simplicity is a virtue in either mode. Many photos fail because they show too much.

Philo Vivero
I'm a Child...? I cannot understand or appreciate B&W photography. I've tried. Really, I have. But it's all flat, dull, and lifeless to me. My eyes get wide and I squeel with glee when I see a photograph with all the primary colours. This is a strong composition. A great photograph. And I can't see it, because I'm blind. I feel like I'm watching all the adults discuss about the movie we just saw, and all I saw in the movie was a bunch of adults talking. What's there to discuss? No explosions. No flashing lights or colour. What's wrong with me?

Tomiko Dayama
Thank you,Mr.Caird, I think I "get" some of your point Way back, before Team POW got back to more important stuff (B&W vs. Color), Mr. Caird propounded a thesis on the nature of photography. I wondered at it (see above). He later wrote: "it is my belief that the test of a photographer is the ability to realize intention through the medium" (snipped of tag that might cause more B&W vs. color...). Mr. Caird, that says it, to me. It's liberating. What I can do, with a scanned slide, or telescope-CCD output, with Photoshop and printer, surely may seem like photography to me and my colleagues - "cum Musis deditus non sim, nosco quod amo"* - but it in no way stakes a claim to a higher (nor lesser) truth than held by those who hand-print IR or BW images. (I use a Canon 4000 dpi scanner - THERE! I knew I could get Canon vs. Nikon into this thread!). As an aside, Mr. Schuler, I'm utterly unsure of what "camp" you may think I belong to - but please don't attribute thoughts to me. I read your posts the way a pig looks a wristwatch - I think there's something there, but generally it eludes me. -- *There is a lot of fondness for Latin here, so that's my contribution.

Chris Battey
Composition, the only flag carrier? The colour Photographer can use the attributes of Tone and Hue, in a way the BW Photographer cannot. Let's assume that our Photographer wants to take a picture of a clown. 'Ok', he says, 'I want a sad clown'. So, Fred finds a blue clown and sits him in front of a blue wall. Already the attributes of 'Blue' are helping to convey the mood, bringing an emotional response to the scene. Now, a picture of a kid with a painted red face in front of a red, or orange wall, can help to lift a picture emotionally and convey happiness perhaps joy. Switch the kid for a stereotypical Red Indian, lower the lights and flood the scene with a red gelled spot and we can infer anger, or suppressed violence. I am deliberately avoiding composition here, because my point is that colour can bring something else to a picture that BW cannot. If we simply desaturate our Clown, kid and Indian, then we can only draw inference from the techniques of composition and shading to gauge an opinion. I think there are two types of colour Photograph. One is a picture that happens to be in colour, where Hue and Tone are not considered, the Photographer composing within frame to tell the story, if we desaturate this, then the pic will still work because the colour information was not really needed. The second type of colour picture is our 'Blue Clown', if we desaturate our clown, all the colour information is lost and we lose our 'Blue mood' that we've worked so hard for. Once desaturated we can only judge our Clown as a compositional BW study. Sometimes a great Photographer can marry the benefits of colour with strong elements of lighting and composition, yes the pic would still work as a BW, but in colour it takes on a greater status. Alex Webb, would we a good example of the latter. Joel Sternfeld would be another.

Tony Dummett
Whether it's B&W or color is immaterial. Consider a literary analogy: sonnets vs. blank verse. Great masterpieces can be achieved in either medium. What's important is that the intention is stated (usually this will be implicitly, rather than explicitly) within the art work. That is, the work sets out its own terms. Then we assess its success within those terms. Surely it's the same with B&W vs. Color photography?

Tomiko Dayama
Thank you for sharing, Tris, but I'm no closer to understanding Mr. Caird. Of course, the etymology of a word and it's meaning are usually related; still I believe your Webster describes a theorem* in its weakest form as an idea proposed as a general truth. Now, I know you didn't join this idly, so you might shed some light on the proposal-lemma-theorem-conjecture-assertion that photography involves capturing photons on emulsions, and (as explicated in his posts) resolving those images through superiour darkroom craftsmanship. How are we then to view the images from Hubble, Compton, GLAST (once launched), the many KH-11 satellites and the 10-meter Keck telescopes (none use film)? I admit, I sure thought those were photos when they first came out. Perhaps, Mr. Caird is wrestling with where is the dividing line between a photo and a digitally-created artwork. I'd be interested in his thoughts. *For those who wish to stray kilometers from photography, and parsecs from Mr. MacEachern's grand PHOTO, I suggest Dr. Gödel's 1931 work, "On Formally Undecidable Propositions..." if they want to wallow in the meaning of "theorem". The work WILL drive you mad - it drove Gödel mad - but another conjecture is that madness lies at the root of great art. Maybe it will sharpen up your snaps!

Brian Mottershead
How fortunate that the aesthetically more fundamental form of photography -- namely, black and white -- was technically the more feasible! If color photography had been easier than black and white and had had historical priority, we might all be thinking (incorrectly of course) that black and white is a "manipulation", accomplished through the use of suspicious or sleazy techniques lying outside the realm of true photography.

Tim VanBlaricom
Too Funny As an uneducated, however, enthusiatic, photographer I just have to say this cracks me up. First let me say I think Ian is a wonderful photographer, I like this photograph very much and there are others in his portfolio that just blow me away for the skill used in their creation. With that said let me make a couple observations that I find humerous about this discussion. Four weeks ago there was a POW called 'Thundercloud', it was a supersaturated, suburban, sceen of a spectacular natural event. This week there is 'Children in Wales', a desaturated, suburban, sceen of an event we envision as representing a wonderful time in our youth. Yet one photo was derided by some to death, one is heralded a 'masterpiece'. One a token of luck 'anyone could step out the back door and shoot this', one 'compositional genious', both were in all reality, by both photographers admission, snapshots. One proof that the elves aren't even of high enough intellect to work at a 'greeting card company', the other proof that the elves are keen to the insight of superior art. Can anyone tell us unlearned why desaturation is art and supersaturation is not? Both photographs have obvious flaws, neither Ian's nor Doug's photographs are free of distracting elements. I wonder if someday when we are all surrounded by 3 dimensional holographic images if we will look at 2-d color and clamor all over it for it's artistic representation. It really makes me chuckle. And lastly, I can already feel my ears stinging...I see photography held up here as great art, and I have no doubt as to the work, eye, and just plain talent that goes into some photography, but if I could paint, I wouldn't take so many pictures, so don't get too carried away with yourselves. Some here have made fun of the digital photographers due to their ability to create images en masse, but don't even realize the rediculousness of such statements when viewed by people who do draw and paint (and please I know how old this argument is, it's just so funny to see it made over and over by self appointed intellects). One thing I have definately reaffirmed in my year of reading, 'artists' are among the most narrow minded of people on earth and photographers are no exception.

Tony Dummett
Tris, this is too good a photograph and Ian is too good a photographer for the discussion to be hijacked by your posts. You have started posting multiple successive comments again, like some demented defender of an imaginary castle, pouring boiling oil on anything that moves beneath the walls. Come on, please slow down a bit. Whether you're right or wrong doesn't matter in the long run, and you shouldn't mistake silence on the part of your co-debaters as agreement. They might just be weary of being shouted down and slagged-off. You don't have a monopoly on wisdom or understanding of the history of art, criticism or technique here. I'm not contending that every comment made on these pages is of the highest intellectual quality, but they don't all have to be individually responded to by you as some sort of self-appointed moderator of the site. Your own skill is to have a way of enraging people by making dogmatic statements in a pompous, condescending manner. Leave it be, please. You've been very well behaved the past few PoWs, why not keep up the good citizenship? The odd pompous or arrogant comment is fine, even entertaining, but you take yourself (and your "responsibilities") way too seriously and push our generosity too far. This is a good photograph, from a great portfolio, by an underrated member of Let him and his work have their moment in the limelight, please.

Brian Mottershead
Tris, the ad hominem attack does not advance your argument and seems designed only to be offensive.

You have not answered my basic point. Suppose the only technically feasible form of analog photography had been color photography. That, out of necessity, the mastery of photography's masters included the ability to handle color. And that black and white had entered the scene only recently as "digital desaturation", achieved in Photoshop.

Would you be celebrating the technical progress which had finally made it possible to realize black and white, the essence of photography? Or would you be decrying it as a manipulation, to be indulged only by philistines with an aesthetic understanding clearly inferior to your own?

Tony Dummett
Quick Tris, someone else disagreed with you... over on the southern battlements! Hurry! (bring your boiling oil).

Vuk Vuksanovic
the professor has no clothes Tris. It's quite remarkable, with all your intellectual posturing, that Brian's clever hypothetical went entirely over you head. Brian. You've made an excellent point which utterly demolishes so much photographic dogma.

Ian MacEachern
Mr. Caird, Unfortunately, television is generally pictures without radio, mores the pity, and so very often photogaphy is colour without any content.

Ian MacEachern
Mr. Thistlethwaite, It is not an aversion, but rather a distraction, a personal failing. If I have a camera loaded with colour film, I become more conscious of colour as an end result, rather than pure content....the interplay of the subject with the environment. But, it would be fair to say that colour is generally irrelevant to my genre of photography.

Michael Walter
Christopher, I hope you will hang around longer. I've been here for about a year and while I do get sometimes annoyed and sometimes offended, I have taken away a lot more from this website than I have lost to it. There are a great many fine uploads and wonderful portfolios to see such as the ones attached to this fine picture. When I cruise the recent uploads, I honestly think the quality has improved over the last year, and you won't find the general quality of pictures posted here on any other similar website, at least not in this volume. There is tons of good information embedded in here, you just have to pick and choose, it is often buried in what may seem the most annoying of posts or threads, but don't let your personal feelings about others keep you from learning from this site. Contrary to what some feel, there is a great deal here to learn from, ranging from equipment to composition to film to scanners to even how to look at a picture critically. There is as much to learn from poor critiques as from good ones. You gotta have a few lousy teachers to learn how not to be one yourself. Re: this picture, I really like the way the buildings look like kids blocks sort of jumbled together and the view seems to be almost in the clouds. It really is dream-like. God's view of kids. God's got to be pleased.....unless of course the kids are running from the five and dime after lifting some jawbreakers. I agree with the flatness being humbug, and I'm not sure I like the way the chimney on the front house stops right at the edge. I think were the complete chimney included, it would add a bit more depth to the houses, but then you'd have cut too close to the bottom shadow. The way the corner behind the kids is curved and the way the houses receed makes it look almost distorted, but it isn't and that just adds to the beautiful composition. Re: Tris and his detractors: Looking back over this week, I don't think Tris started things, but as most know, he is very loathe not to finish an arguement. I think he brought up valid points of discussion by expressing his views on the difference of color and black and white photography, agree with him or not. Seven made a ludicrous statement last week on the topic and only a few responded. Maybe we are a bit sensitized to you Tris after that first week of harrowing discussions that could have been avoided with a properly calibrated monitor, and I and others have felt verbally attacked by you in the past, but I think the jabs at you this week have been unwarranted. I have gleaned several relevant points from your posts and do not think as some others do that you have little to say. Grammatical corrections should be done by e-mail. Re: Tri-X. One of my favorite pictures I ever took was on Tri-X many years ago, but alas it is of an ex-girlfriend and to post it would surely cost me a great many points at home. Great film.

Mark Ci
It could be worse. Imagine having a long ride in his cab.

Oh, God no!!! As much as I like San Francisco, I think I'll steer clear for a while.

I think it's a shame that someone would suggest we all ignore Mr. Shuler. What good would that do? Does anyone really see any harm in his opinions? Or are you just annoyed by the fact that he not only has strong opinions about photography but is both willing and able to present them quite clearly - if not exactly concisely.

I don't see any harm in his opinions: I'm just utterly bored by them. Tris is like the clod at the cocktail party who monopolizes the conversation, droning on endlessly and sucking all the oxygen out of the room. Is he right or wrong? Who knows, and who cares: most of us stopped paying attention a long time ago.

Ignoring him may work, or it may not. Bores are usually deaf to social cues, and too enchanted with the sounds of their own voices to stop anyway.

Pradeep Selvakumar
Rules, Tris! It's "difference between you and ME," Tris, not "difference between you and I." We wouldn't want to misunderstand you because of "poor description and thus worse communication," you know.

Will Wilson
James, I only meant that exposing a concept to a particular person before its discovered by that person, may lead that person in the wrong direction. Thus creating a "barrier" between their true vision and what they create. The extreme would be: "You should only use BW, everything looks better in BW." Better advice would be: "You try BW and color, oh. . . and theirs also infrared, color slides, high speed black and white, etc." Simply facilitating expression, by pushing them towards a perceived vision, does not necessarily help that person express what they intended to express. What if someone had told Ian that color neg film was the only way to take pictures, and that if you wanted to be a real photographer you had to shot with a Nikon SLR with an autofocus lens. Dont forget that you have to fill the frame with your subject. oh right, and the rule of thirds. Would we have this wonderful piece to discuss?

Jennifer Kwasniewski
I think Daniel's's about pre-visualization. Some scenes or moments scream color, others need black and white.A good photographer knows when to use one or another. I only use B & W not because Im a B & W snob, simply because I can't afford to pay a lab to process all my mistakes. B & W affords me the opportunity to learn at a price I can stomach. Tony, your comments speak for many users. I've been following this forum just to see where it might go and just gotta put my 2 cents in here. When I first joined I rather enjoyed the banter that Tris provided and felt that it was lighthearted and fun and good for sparking interesting threads of conversation. He also, IMHO seemed to have alot of knowledge (which is why I'm here, to learn from those with many years of experience)Now....sorry Tris, I scroll through your responses (and I always know which ones they are as I begin - chapter length narcissistic rhetoric). I would very much like to hear what you have to say, it's just so unpleasant to read through. I don't want to get in a spitting match with you, but I did want you to know that what you have to say is clouded by your delivery. I also think poor Ian's parade has been rained on a bit here by all the shouting you boys are doing!!

Solly Brown
A suggestion: Just ignore him. There's nothing that will shut someone up as quickly as making them talk into a void. Pleas, logical argument, or simple requests to make fewer, shorter postings are never going to work. If you don't like someone hijacking the discussion, don't encourage it by biting back. Just ignore him, and comment on the photo instead. This photo is great. Perfect execution, a real moment in time. The backyards included in the composition make it a great slice of life. Even having grown up on the other side of the world in PNG, it really sparks memories of my youth. Does anyone else feel the need for a slight increase in contrast? I initially thought so. I now think the light drabness of the surrounding image really hammers home the liveliness of the boys running. They don't care that they're living in a concrete jungle - they're on their way to do something fun. Great shot!

Vuk Vuksanovic
Someone else just delivered himself to the peculiar opinion that the very discussion of the tecnicalities might only stand in the way of an "artist's vision," and while he didn't come right out and say so Vuk for all intents said the same thing last night. --Tris.

Please DO NOT put words in my mouth. Technical knowledge is critical, but it stops at things like getting the correct exposure and tonal effects (film/filter choice) in your shot. The rules you have in mind go beyond the straighforward realm of the technical. They are at best ambiguous, at worst stifling and generally, if concrete and sufficiently far-reaching, merely the sort of thing that can help a complete novice avoid taking bad snapshots. That said, specific compositional advice or criticism about a particular photo is another matter altogether.

By the way, why are you so fixated on this idea about people coming here to learn? Maybe it is a big cocktail party for most. Do you have anything to teach Ian?

Tony Dummett
It could be worse. Imagine having a long ride in his cab.

Pradeep Selvakumar
Purposeful comment Now try this on for size. What good purpose did your message have coming in? To improve the level of English here or, like that other person, "put me in my place"?

Just helping you out Tris, since you seemed intent that people follow linguistic rules judging from the following:

Please, go ahead and show me how "rules" have no bearing on correct language usage or the learning of it thereof. I'm all ears.

I am surprised you saw some hidden reason for my trying to be helpful. I thought you were very open to others' critisism, especially if you could learn something from them. I sincerely hope it wasn't "refusal to avail oneself of knowledge (of rules) which often enough leads to both bad art and bad language usage."

I only pointed it out because it had "escaped" you twice. As for putting you in your place, I am sure you already are where you ought to be.

Shankar Kiragi
Look and Feel Happy Picture is crisp! Sunlight is good! Kids are happy! excellent timed catch

Vuk Vuksanovic

Just to broaden your understanding a little more, this discussion of colour vs. shape is the sort of useless yawn-inspiring stuff that would make me give up photography altogether if I actually had to consider it seriously or routinely. Knowledge of rules is about as important in the production of language as it is in art: it looks to have played a part when analysing post hoc, but in reality has little to do with what actually occurred in the mind.

There are far more interesting and constructive ways to critique pictures.

Mary Ball
(I'm biting my tongue!!! Not easy but lets try it.) Back to the subject: Ian - because of the POW - I've been back to your portfolio a few times now. Congratulations again. Hopefully this is an enjoyable recognition for you. At the very least, you will have more people checking out your other works. Thanks again.

Daniel Bayer
And now a word for our sponsor........ Ian, I am curious to learn how you came upon the angle. Were you already up in a room and noticed the kids playing? Or did you see them playing and ran to a known window and wait for the moment. I like to give insight as to how a picture happened as I try to do in some of my captions. I think that the image's contrast is fine for the subject by the way, cropping too as I have already mentioned, I think the fact that it has an object in the lower left hand corner gives the children running a destination that is a mystery. Folks.......let's get back to the subject here, photography! I would like to know how many of you actually get out and shoot new stuff on a regular basis, not to imply that the fact that I do makes me better or more informed. I just like to share my work with people, give them something to think about. I think Jennifer has a valid point about Black and White as a cheaper method of honing ones skills too. I also applaud the comment on how the digi age brings unpublished pictures from 1975 and beyond into view, it's like a re-birth of life Magazine online. A question for you all that I thought of: What is POW??? An award for standing out?? A random selection of images to stir Comments? I don't think that it is meant to label a photo as "The Best of the week". Afterall, it IS called Photo of the week.

Will Wilson
Ian, the power of your portfolio is wild. It sucks you in. Fantastic work. Congrats on POW. Love this photo and the others that surround it in your portfolio. True vision stands out no matter what media it was formed through. It has nothing to do with color or BW , Kodak or Fuji, oil paint or crayons. They don't create a vision, and Kodak and Fuji definitely don't sell it. It's the eye behind the lense, for some the vision flows, and for others it comes more stubornly. The ability of photography to allow people an outlet for their particular vision without the need for a technical artistic skill, like drawing or painting, is phenomenal. Breaking this form of expression down into concepts and thus putting up barriers between the artist and their vision is ridiculous. Anything goes. . . Its art. Its expression. Critique, in my eyes, it's only meant to help the artist find their vision. It is still their vision. Help them find their vision dont burn them for not seeing yours.

Tony Dummett
To Ian McEachern Ian, I'm sure it wouldn't be regarded as vanity by us, your colleagues, for you to write a short response to some of the questions that have been put to you about this remarkable PoW picture. In fact it would be a positive benefit to get the "inside running" on the "hows" and "whys" of your photographic techniques. Too many (including myself) have taken it upon themselves to speak on your behalf. We're probably all wrong. The picture has been a successful PoW by any acocunts, so how about it... what's the "good oil" on this image (and the rest of your excellent portfolio, if you're feeling expansive)?

Vuk Vuksanovic
I will be in England for at least 2 months starting around the middle of Feburary. If I can survive my own personal problems, maybe we can hook up. --Daniel Bayer


Ian (and I) live in the fake London (Ontario, Canada), not the one in England, though you're still welcome for a visit--this place is quite a challenge for any photographer.

Rienk Jiskoot
What's wrong with discussing the weather? O my o my, sorry, I don't speak good english, but I'm a real master in dutch and the swissgerman dialect, so if anybody is interested in taking lessons, just give me a call...I just want to apologize (I know, this word is maybe written wrong...) for starting this terrible chitchat about b/w versus/with colour photography. Out of my love and enthusiasm for b/w, I praised the elves for choosing this picture, after last week's beautiful informal wedding shot. I just should have sticked to the compliment to Ian for his incredible work, I guess. I feel soooo sorry, I'll punish myself for starting this waste of space by taking that cabride with Mr. Schuler. It'll be a nighttrip, at least then he'll stop sometimes and get out of the cab to take some of his famous nightshots...Time to breathe...I'm so happy I had an unexpected Pic of the Week back in april when the only discussion about the pic was, IS or ISN'T the indian lady shouting at the cop...(Or: Did or did I not lie about the content of the picture...) Yesterday night I spent the evening in my darkroom, and, looking at this "discussion" now in the morning, I'm happy I did, and wasn't wasting my time filling these empty spaces in this forum discussion. Ian, thanks for the picture, again, and to make it clear again to everyone: Although I do mostly b/w, I really love William Eggleston. I even own all of his books! And I also think Joel Sternfeld's pics wouldn't be what they were if shot in b/w. He wouldn't have shot them the way he did in colour...So, for now, I take the guilt and make myself ready for that cabride with Mr. Schuler to discuss the weather, sports, beautiful women and other real interesting stuff...Hope he doesn't speak latin to me ad nauseum...Bye y'all, have a few beers and enjoy the weather, Rienki

Daniel Bayer
Is my monitor off??? Tris, ( I know, I hate to start him up again folks) Maybe my monitor on my little Powerbook is too light? Dunno, never have seen the work on other ones. Can anyone tell if they think it is too dark, that might make the color too saturated, especially if consistantly so. There are some red flowers in a tree outside right now that look so bright and colorful, they look "Photoshopped" Food for thought on color, huh? I see the world in color and black and white, it depends on what I am pre-visualizing. I had color film in the camera when I first saw Snowy animal tracks, I just saw it in Black and white. Threading the needle in Australia, db

Vuk Vuksanovic
status Tony. I spoke to Ian a little earlier and he's just out of the darkroom and now spotting a series of proofs (some naughty underground stuff), but well aware of the questions that have been asked and keen to reply later this evening or tomorrow. Just to make sure he does, I have offered to provide clever answers on his behalf ;-) Tris. No offense, but I really doubt there's anything worthwhile Ian has to learn from you. In fact, I don't think he's even learned anything from me--well, except for details concerning the tatoos, piercings and other strange habits of contemporary women in their early 20s. I, on the other hand, have learned a tremendous amount from him (in real life, not Photonet), even though I just love to break his silly "falling out of the bottom right corner" rule. BTW--could you try to be little more arrogant in the next reply? You're so close to breaking some sort of international record.

Tony Dummett
Your basic conceit is exposed by the implicit assertion, contained in your last statement, that I can only be "fruitful" by responding to and cogently assessing YOUR remarks. Otherwise, you contend, I am acting in a childish manner. What an ego you have, Tris. Please, don't feel obliged to "cogently assess" this post of mine. Your silence would be reward enough.

Christopher Lovenguth
WOW! Holy Crap I have only been on for three weeks now and I am already burnt out! I can’t take it anymore. I thought a group of photographers would somehow be more enlightened than this. I guess I’m mistaken. You know what, this post isn’t about you. Yep, you looking at it right now, it has nothing to do with you. Yet somehow I’m sure you will take it personal and write about it, because everything is about you. Talk about a “me” society. Well I’m giving another week or two and if I can’t get this ugly feeling out of me that most (not everyone) people here have given me, I’m gone. Not that any of you really care because this community isn’t about a group, it’s about you! Look what you make me do; writing a post like this, I have stooped to your level. I guess I’m becoming part of the community here after all. I feel so warm and welcomed. Great photo BTW. That is why we are here, right?

Jim Tardio
I like the photo for all the reasons listed above...but what I find amazing about this shot is that it was taken in 1975.

Maybe this should be a topic for another thread but one of the main enjoyments of the internet has been to see shots like this...that most likely would have been filed away in a shoebox in the attic had the web not come along.

It gives us all a chance to see beyond what the established media wants us to see. In the past, all we had access to was what the major magazines decided was good enough for us to see.

How many more treasures await us that are currently buried in closets or garages?

What an age we live in.

Brian Mottershead
Here we are midweek, and this photo already has 133 comments. Chris Battey's photo last week only had 106 by the end of the week. This must be a much better photo than last week's.

Shane Knight
Great Shot!! Hats off to you, Ian. A very wonderful picture. Some advice to others: Don't complicate the simple things....please.

Ian MacEachern
Some questions answered First, let me thank everyone for the very kind comments that have been made about this photo and the others I have posted. There is something quite gratifying about people all round the world seeing and commenting on my work. (Especially when the comments have been so positive.) Now for the 'whys'and 'hows'.... this particular photo was taken from a bridge while cycling in England/Wales. It wasn't a case of 'choosing' a viewpoint, but rather because that was where I happened to be at that moment, (and, to a great extent, that would apply to the majority of my photos). The composition, framing and space are due to the 40mm focal length of the Rollei 35 lens. The negative is printed full-frame, as are all my photos. This is not an affectation, nor a dogma, but stem from spending several years as a TV studio cameraman, where you have to learn to compose for the television format. It is a discipline that I carried over to photography. Regarding this specific photo, yes, it is a bit underexposed, but not by much, not enough to matter in printing. The slight flatness is due to the flatbed scanner (a four year old Mustek) and the fact that this was a fairly early posting and I didn’t tweak the tonality enough in PhotoShop. Much more exposure and the highlights would start going and so would the sharpness. I suspect that my shutter and aperture were 1/500 and f16, and stayed that way for the six weeks we were in England, Wales and Ireland on a cycling tour. It was the worst drought in 600 years, and we saw only two short periods of rain lasting 30 minutes each. The Rollei 35 had a meter, but I usually use a Sekonic Studio Incident Light meter. There was also a Nikon F SLR loaded with Kodachrome 64 which my wife was using and which I also used on occasion. My pictures are generally about people and their environment, and their relationship. While content is important, the underlying form of an image is also very significant, and plays a great role in making a photograph work as a whole. Having said that, I don't 'strive' for 'artistic' compositions, but I am aware of the counterpoint of opposites, of the interplay of tones and how they relate to the end result. I like B&W, it is that simple. If I shoot colour, then I am doing just that....shooting colour, not photographs. I have been shooting Tri-X for years, it is reliable, generally available and predictable. At 400 ASA (ISO) it allows me to take pictures around the clock with a fast lens. It has been, in fact, considered a standard. I don't push the film, I develop it normally in D-76, diluted 1-1. I have tried other developers over the years and keep coming back to D-76. There are some new emulsions available now that certainly look good, such as Ilford's XP2 and Kodak’s TCN400, and the convenience and ease of C-41 processing for these chromogenic films at every corner lab is very appealing. There are no magic formulas, just have a camera with you at all times and be ready to use it. Something I don’t do enough of these days, unfortunately.

Bert Denda
Ian MacEachern: Photographer That’s what Ian stamps on the back of his prints, and oh my, what a photographer he is. I have been a fan of his since I was a teenager, long before I met him although I have known him for over 25 years (but that’s another story) and now call him a true friend. It is not because he is my friend though that I admire his photographic skills. It is because he has produced some of the best photographs that I have seen. Ian works in the social documentary style. When I asked him once what he thought his particular genre was he replied that he had once been called a social realist - and he seems to like that term - although I take exception to it. Ian’s photographs are not realistic but they are the most real that I have ever seen. What Ian does is to strip away all that is not required to tell the story. To quote Ian directly; “As much as neccessary, but as little as posible.” Ian’s photographs are uncluttered and clean. He has stripped away by his precise in camera cropping all the noisy crud that would be in our peripheral vision and focuses (no pun intended) us onto the story line. The fact that he does this with articulate compositional balance elevates what is already so beautifully observed onto an even higher plane. I am a great admirer of Tony Dummet, Jo Voet (whatever sex Jo may be), Maurice Depestre and Rienk Jiskoot (and many others - I list these photographers because much of their work is in the same milieu as Ians ). To my mind, what sets Ian’s work somewhat above these is Ian’s ability to capture counterpoint in his compositions; that is some element that is a surprise or a twist or a wry observation or a poignant instance or a juxtaposition of people or events in their environment that makes us smile. There is always familiarity in what he shows us - and we relate instantly to this - yet this familiarity never leads to our contempt or descends to triteness and his vision stays with us long after we have finished looking at his work. In and of itself viewing photographs is an extremely passive act and only when we can recognize and react to either an aesthetic arrangement and palette that pleases, or are drawn into an emotional circumstance - tragic or ironic or even pedestrian if wryly observed (all of which can be found in Ian’s work ) - does a photo take on meaning for us. (I fail miserably at this on a regular basis but take pleasure in the pursuit) It is then that we stare and analyse to try and understand what we are drawn to. Ian’s work rewards us many times over with our effort and no doubt many of us assign unique back stories to the people in Ian’s photographic world. I am so pleased for Ian that his photographs are now being seen and appreciated by such a broad audience. The work - and he - deserves no less.

James .
I just looked at Ian's portfolios, he is a master! The situations conveyed with his photos are natural and honest. His work inspires.

Robert Minton
It is a forum, after all I think it's a shame that someone would suggest we all ignore Mr. Shuler. What good would that do? Does anyone really see any harm in his opinions? Or are you just annoyed by the fact that he not only has strong opinions about photography but is both willing and able to present them quite clearly - if not exactly concisely. One thing for sure, you can't tell a good photograph (or a good anything, for that matter) by the sheer number of people who like it. You have to know why they feel the way they do. That's how you learn. Now, simply because someone is unable to articulate their reasons for feeling the way they do doesn't invalidate their opinion, but it does make it rather useless in a forum such as this. I learn nothing from the people who simply say "Superb!", but I can always count on Tris to not only give his opinion, but to back it up in detail. Who cares whether or not he disclaims everything with the annoying intrusion of IMHOs or those intolerable emoticons. I like this photograph for many reasons. I like the composition - I wouldn't crop any closer to the children because I think the town they live in is a major "character" in the story told by the photo. If I try very hard to find a criticism, I suppose I would rather have the light coming from the opposite side so that the shadows would fall the opposite way. I don't know why that is, exactly - my preference may have something to do with the fact that I am always used to shooting with the sun at my back, if for no other reason than to compensate for the weak flash on my camera. Then again, you can't just move the sun, and though it would increase the detail on the buildings, it would probably detract from the children as the subject. Also, in the beginning, I was a bit bothered by the lack of extreme black in the photo - whether from the exposure or scan. It's somethning I would have fixed in Photoshop if it were my picture - but in all honesty, the grey is growing on me. Sometimes you can have too much contrast. And since this photo seems to remind a lot of people of other things, I'll offer mine. For whatever reason, I could see this as a Ben Shahn drawing. -Rob (Aesthetics 10. Originality 8.)

Tony Dummett
Well, I think Ian's photo WAS as near to perfect as we're gonna see around these parts. And it engendered what was probably the greatest and widest discussion ever for a PoW. For the record I don't think its composition was top-heavy. I think it brought two themes together (the kids and the houses... and all they enatail) in a novel, original and extremely satisfying way without overstatement. What more could you ask for, in B&W or color? Thanks to you: Morwen, Brian, Mike, Vuk, Mary, Geraldine, Rienk, "James", Jeff, Daniel, Chris, Jim, Solly, Siobhan, Pradeep, Bert, Tomiko.... and even "thank you" Tris "The Professor" Schuler (and too many others to mention). And, of course, thanks to Ian for being on that bridge with film in his camera.

Kevin Keller
9 9. Landscape and environmental and tonal range and lyrical and Bresson and Brandt and tri-x w/blown out highlights and and .... Definitely makes me want to get a Rollei. If I shot this with my t5 or Epic I fear it would have chosen too small an aperture, or too high a shutter speed, or the shutter delay would've missed the moment, etc. I've noticed a good few 40 mm perspective shots that I like a lot. Of course Bresson used a 50. I could pretend that my AE1 w/ a 50 1.4 is a Leica or Rollei 35 (or get the new one), but the AE1 is too large to treat like a Rollei. Oh well, I guess its not really the camera anyhow. With a pinhole, this is still a great shot.

W Morgan
Book? (OT) Ian - is there to be another book of your photography? There certainly should be. It's been a while since "Village signs of north Cambridgeshire". W

I f
I agree with you Trevor,Ian is anthor photographer with simler style to Bill Brandt,like wise Chris from last week .

W Morgan
Hmmm. "Yes," said Wilson. "There's that. Doesn't do to talk too much about all this. Talk the whole thing away. No pleasure in anything if you mouth it up too much." - Hemingway, The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber

Maria S.
Congratulations on P.O.W., Ian. I would choose 20 other of your photos for that honor .... never thought this particular one would be their choice...well, anyway, you got plenty of visitors and that's good for B&W photography...all the butterfly & kodak moment catchers got to see da photography :0)

Bert Denda
Latin Translation for James I believe that "cum Musis deditus non sim, nosco quod amo" translates more or less to "I don't know much about art, but I know what I like"

Ian MacEachern
Book Mr. Morgan Re: "Village signs of north Cambridgeshire", I am not the photographer of that publication. But thanks for asking.

Tomiko Dayama
Bravo, Mr. Denda! It became our motto when we caught the Buran out in open. I still use it all the time...I figure it helps students stay excited about modeling gamma ray flows around rotating black holes. What THEY figure is probably best left unexplored.

W Morgan
What!? Well, you shoulda been. Now, then. Don't let that other Ian MacEachern catch you napping again. M

Mary Ball
Pity............ Cats can't fly

Philo Vivero
I Absolutely Love Discussions! I especially love the hypothetical brought up by Brian! It's always seemed patently obvious to me that colour is natural, and B&W is what amounts to a photomanipulation. In fact, a straight 2D image is less natural than a binocular image. A zoomed image less natural than a wide-angle image. I've always thought if you were a purist, you would only ever shoot with a wide-angle lens on colour film with no filters. B&W? Bad. Filters? Worse. IR Film? Pure blasphemy. But we're all artists, after all. Tris: I should say that I also enjoy stopping in front of an old B&W photograph. It is history. But there's the difference. It really is history. I like to think about what it might've been like 80 years ago. But one of the most interesting B&W set of pictures I've ever encountered... a man took THREE pictures of his subject, each with a Red, Green, and Blue filter over the lens. Then, about a hundred years later (ie: in the past couple years) some guys with computers took the three negatives and composited them together to get a fullcolour image. Ah! What beauty. To see history in full colour. I shall ever be a shallow shadow of a human being. I shall only ever enjoy a colour photograph. What a tragedy.

Chris VenHaus
Tim V: I agree wholeheartedly with your comments! Some people need to "get over" themselves....

Mary Ball
A Quote That made me laugh "Actually, my artistic knowledge is so tiny it could fit into the brain of an art critic" Michael Kilian

Peter Voerman
Fantastic shot. In the tradition of the photographers of Magnum (Rui Barros). Top Marks, great composition !!

gwen barlee
god, this is wonderful, something timeless about the children running, which transcends the neighbourhood, their corner of the world, a sense of wonder, joy and urgency that at one time all of us used to feel

Marc G.
10 / 10 - obviously... I can't believe this ! What a master piece ! If this would be signed Cartier-Bresson, nobody in the world would doubt it was... Another thing... You have to teach me how to get all the kids 1 leg up at the same time ! Then I think I could find myself the way to have the shadows following the movement !... :-)

Mike Kany
Children in Wales Mr. MacEachern's skill & intellect exemplify the mystery & power that can be captured in the B&W photograph.

Paul Gissing
Mastery I keep coming back to this picture. What a fantastic image. Ian definately is a master of his craft.

Marco Mugnatto
I'm visiting it again. If I was to choose a photo to put on my wall it would be this one. My preferred photo on this site until now.

Landrum Kelly
If I could make just one photograph like this in my life. . ..

Charles Hoffer
While this may not be superior photography, or remarkable, I do like its composition. The only thing I would have done was to crop the photo to make the kids the major focus, as this is the subject matter in this picture. If the tones weren't so flat, I would have liked it even more.

Marc G.
What a thread ! I had seen this marvelous picture months ago, but I had never read the entire thread - barely bits of it.

It's monday morning in Malaysia, and I clicked on this picture again to have a look at the thread. Oh my ! This really wasn't only one of the 10 or 20 best pictures uploaded on this site (way above the 10/10 rating by standards), it was also the greatest thread I have ever read on this site.

I was really impressed to see that Chris Battey had actually expressed exactly what I felt about Black & white Vs. Color, and no less impressed by the very powerful analysis Tony Dummett and Bert Denda made of Ian's work in general.

Pictures like this one don't come by chance. You don't just need a film, or a camera, r an eye, you need to have spent most of your life watching human beings and looking for the magic in the way they live. I can't add anything to what Bert and Tony said about your work, Ian. It is all so true and so well stated... but I can add this: you know who humans really are.

Thanks for so much Beauty, Ian.

Alberto Conde
I'm impressed by the image, by the thread and by your folders (of which, assylum has really impacted me profoundly) I have to thank Marc for directing me to you.

Desmond du Mont
Children in Wales This has got to be one of the favorite images I have seen in a very long time... It captivates as a Bresson image would... You have captured that moment in time perfectly... The technical quality of light and shadows is amazing. The balance and the lines take you to the action as if you were really watching from above. The composition is perfect... I just love it!

Jonathan Reynolds
Fantastic body of work Ian, I'm only commenting on this one photo because I can't see how to rate the portfolio as a whole. For me this is the best of a fantastic body of work. I am so, so envious. The very best of luck to you. I had been a bit dissapointed about the photos I was seeing for critique on photonet, especially given the amount of technobabble that goes on, but your pictures set things right for me. Do you sell prints? (BTW, interested to know how you rate that little Rollei 35? I have used one for about 10 years and get maddened by its ergonomics, but have to admit that it has produced some of my best pictures.) Jonathan Reynolds

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