Victory Rally, Ukraine (sort of)

Immediately after scores of deaths, most by hidden snipers, and the

rest by protester clashes with riot police, the repressive president of

Ukraine fled for parts unknown and this 'victory' rally was held at

Maidan (My-Don), Ukraine's Independence Square in central Kyiv,

with the protester-occupied central Ukraine Post Office in the

background and neighboring Polish flag flying overhead showing

neighbor nation solidarity. Your ratings, critiques, and observations

are invited and most welcome. If you rate harshly, very critically, or

wish to make an observation, please submit a helpful and

constructive comment; please share your photographic knowledge to

help improve my photography. Thanks! Enjoy! john (events have

somewhat 'eclipsed' that 'victory' of course)

This photo was taken immediately after president fled, resigned (it was reported) then 'unresigned' and now claims (from Russia) to be the 'legitimate leader of Ukrainians, though he has been replaced by a large majority of the Parliament for having abandoned his duties and being 'unavailable' to fulfill them.

I take photos and do not take sides in this affair -- each person who views the photos I take is free to come to his/her own conclusion about their importance and meaning as I do not proselytize.   I regret deaths on all sides and cruel treatment of any human by another.

john

John (Crosley)

That 'damn flag' was waved swiftly back and forth, my camera was set at a low shutter speed, and always, it seemed, in every frame I took, the flag detracted from the composition.

Worse, it seemed to me, the flag was being waved so that it was mostly a blur, destroying the composition, yet the composition I saw as valuable, and I persisted.

Finally, for one moment, the flag passed this point, and during that moment its 'blurriness' became less an issue and more an asset, indicating activity rather than passivity, and its positioning fell right in line with the desired composition.

That is why sometimes I will 'stake out' a likely composition, whether it is for 'one frame' or 'thirty' until I can get the frame I previsualize or simply move on if it is impossible or the situation dematerializes.

Here, patience paid off (in my view).

john

John (Crosley)

ISO 4000, lens Nikkor 12~24 f 4 wide open.

I never shoot at such high ISO, except when absolutely dictated by circumstances, and it is imperative or lose the capture. 

ISO 3200 seems to 'top out' for me with the D7000 for best shooting and least noise for ordinary captures, but the noise here (in the sky) seems to 'add to' rather than 'detract from' the capture in my opinion -- adding to the grittiness, uneasiness and palpable foreboding of the occasion that I felt, since total victory was not assured for all of Ukraine, and those feelings were certainly well founded, it is certain in retrospect now.

john

John (Crosley)

Do you have any images from that moment that show more of people's expressions?  This is a great picture but something like that would be an important  document.

If I had something from that moment, flag in that position that showed more emotion, certainly I would have posted it.

I have tons of photos that show stoic Ukrainians, full of grit, almost all men, at Maidan (My don), as they camp, prepare food,trade stories, join with their wives and the occasional child, celebrate, joke, and so forth, but none of 'this moment' which occurred just after the violence.

I'm processing literally thousands of captures, but not making Photo.net my main outlet -- just a few to whet viewers' appetites for the stuff that's more worthy of a photo criticism site while I have another outlet in mind . . . . that I may reveal later if it works out.

In any case, it's almost impossible for me, with two lenses (wide zoom and mid to long tele zoom) not to spend a few hours at the encampment and get wonderful portraits, photos of animated discussions (now (hat emotions are returning to normal), people telling an occasional joke, and some smiles instead of the grim somberness that came this day, immediately after the mass killings mostly by snipers, and in due time the world will see them many of the best of those photos.

I think I have an important collection, even if it's not complete with the combat and women weeping over bodies not represented (there were precious few women anywhere near Maidan, and mass transit was shut down making Maidan almost impossible to get to, then snipers (unknown who gave their orders -- police deny it and certainly not the protesters since they were the main targets, but police, protesters and snipers and even passers-by -- doctors say -- all suffered similar wounds - suggesting provocateur snipers.

Good theory, but speculative, until there are ballistics that are trustworthy, and everything's suspect under such circumstances, and no 'tests' or 'conclusions' will be accepted by anyone to whom the finger is pointed.

When men get older and write their memoirs or spill the beans as they prepare to meet their maker (long after I'm dead for sure), we'll know who gave the snipers their orders. 

I'm sorry I'll probably never know -- but your grandkids may know for certain some day, just as we learned the crimes of Stalin, the KGB and the East German Stasi, though, for sure, no one can say for certain who was behind the killing of JFK . . . . and that may be a question that haunts all history -- the stuff that some future Shakespeare may write about.

Good question, Edward, sorry I can't oblige, and if I could you can be absolutely sure I would have posted it.  Just getting that 'damn flag' in the proper position not to mess up this photo and to help 'make the photo' instead, was a major effort, causing me to dance around somewhat, given my limited ability to move.

The Ukrainian people are rather stoic, but wonderful at sharing their hearts with loved ones in their youths

The Spring mating season is about to begin, and the Revolution is coming to a slowdown just in time, downtown stores are slowly re-opening in tent city, a few of the tent dwellers were seen today taking their bedrolls to their buses or trains, street vendors are out in droves, while the smooching has begun on a limited scale (more to come for sure) in the main and huge McDonald's just a few stone's (paving brick's?) throw away, on Kreshatyk, even though huge Kreshatyk street in front is full of tents and there is a barricade built to the side of McDonald's (and workmen the other day restored the paving bricks from the patio that were used to build the barricade).

Come to think of it, I cannot be absolutely sure that minor barricade still is there, but McDonald's patio now is open and full of people (good, hot food, unlike American McDonald's).

It's a meeting point for all Kyiv.

Mydan also is a meeting point.

This particular McDonald's is the one place (atop a major Metro stop) where when someone says' I'll  meet you there'  for sure, you'll be met and 'on time', as the Ukrainians are almost never late, unless there's a mobile telephone call to explain that the Metro's late or some such - and no fashionable lateness or 'standing up' dates, either -- a date is a promise the date will show up and on time, come hell of high water -- same in Russia.

A Russian or Ukrainian date is a commitment. 

Period.

None of this wishy-washy American stuff where 'date' is 'undefined', and boy-girl 'plans' are so tentative' they're broken at will.

john

John (Crosley) 

Above it appears that I said 'snipers were shot', but that is not apparently true.

Berkut (riot police), a great, great number of protesters, and even obvious passers-by and spectators who were definitely not protesting but got caught in the violence were shot and killed and/or wounded by the snipers who have been placed atop three government buildings by witnesses, but that they were 'atop government buildings' does not speak to who gave them their orders' -- it was not in the best interest of the now fled President to order snipers to fire on spectators and his own riot police as well as protesters, it appears, so if the snipers DID, fire on all  three groups (a story from the Western Press) that is speculative, but comes from doctors who treated similar wounds from all three parties, then questions are invited.

If worthy of consideration, one might look to who had what to gain by creating mass carnage at a time when it appeared there was an impending negotiated settlement set to come into force that would eventually have forced a vote on the presidency, stripped the president of many powers, freed jailed protesters, and brought an end to the violence.

Those killings brought inevitable violence and threats that immediately had the president fleeing in the middle of the night, under threats of death and force apparently strong enough to carry out those threats -- in apparent retaliation for mass carnage it now is not certain he ordered.

Humh . . . .

Interesting.

I don't point the finger at anyone; I know nothing.

I'm interested.

I watch 'House of Cards'.

But I don't suppose all politicians are like those portrayed in that TV drama.

Still. . . . .

john

John (Crosley)

good color. thhe sky sets the mood. the flag is the final and most important touch.

As noted above, with that flag being waved around and with a slow shutter speed, I had a devil of a time with creating a composition that worked, with numerous attempts with the flag out of place or a blur (or both), with disastrous capture after disastrous capture, but in the end, all it took was perseverance and one capture that worked.

Thanks for the kind words.

john

John (Crosley)

John, I think the grain (mostly visible in the sky) has worked to your advantage  here. it underscores the sense of unrest to me. Of course, as said, the flag is the element that really makes this one work.

I hope you are keeping safe.

Amy

Puts me in mind of a scene from the play 'Le Miserables'.  I think it's a successful shot regardless of your hardships in getting it.  The blurred flag introduces a dynamic of movement in an otherwise fairly static scene. (people standing around)  Good idea not to be seen or even suspected of taking sides especially where a 'crowd' mentality is possible.  You are a brave (foolish?) person to mingle in a crowd where shootings were known to be possible. (if that was the case at the time) Your D7000 has the same sensor as my D5100 and I have taken many satisfying photos at ISO 6400. (my tolerance for noise\grain is likely greater than yours as my shots are only for personal use)  For me, content always trumps noise/grain. In fact I think that here the noise adds to the sombre mood.  Bottom line:  You done good!  Best, LM.

I had an 'assistant' a few years back who did photoshopping for me at a high professional level (but never for PN for which I did my own - it's the rules), and she left on my machines various 'filters', most of which left 'smoothing' 'engines' or commands which would have eliminated much of the noise in the sky, and if those had been installed, I might have been tempted to use them.

Alas they were only good for 86 machines (32-bit) not 64-bit machines, and I use 64-bit machine and 64-bit Photoshop for which those filters/plug-ins are incompatible, plus Photoshop has made big strides in its processing engine.

I kind of liked the 'noise' in the clouds, which is the reflection of the light from the stage lights and buildings (they are watching a stage that is well lighted), and how it seemed to capture the 'essence' of the scene and light it well, combined with the 'light's color' complemented somehow by the somewhat artificial yellowness of the lights of the Post Office, occupied by the protesters (background.)

All in all, this is one of my best, and surprisingly so . . . . I certainly worked hard enough to make any sort of capture from this scene (see above).  Sometimes it just takes perseverance.

Best to you Amy, and thanks.

john

John (Crosley)

This photo was taken almost immediately after the President fled, resigned, then unresigned, but appeared in Crimea then Russia claiming to be Ukraine's rightful leader as Ukrainians were strolling the grounds of his lavish (modest house where he claimed to live modestly) staring at his private zoo, his golf course, his 'galleon' boat parked on the huge and muddy Dnipro river, his house with gold and elevator, and all the other trappings of great wealth).

He was definitely not at the front door to greet the Ukrainian citizenry who came to gape at the trappings of wealth accumulated in three years having been LEGITIMATELY elected as president, as acknowledged by observers.  The question was what happened in the interim.  He had fled by four helicopters then two unmarked jet transports from a nearby airport in the middle of the night (after speaking two hours with Joe Biden, US V.P., and wouldn't you, too, if you had to endure that?)

For all that, I'll let the Ukrainians judge, not me. 

The Russian/speaking Easterners have one view, and are fueled by Moscow, and the Ukrainian speaking Westerners have another, and are fueled by wishing to join the EU and were foiled.  But I lived some times (part-time) in Dnipropetrovsk, where past president Julia Tymoshenko had a stronghold and was subseuently jailed by fled president Yanukovich, yet in Dnipropetrovsk they spoke Russian (and Ukrainian) and she was popular with Ukrainians and was 'for independent Ukraine' even though Dnipropetrovsk, is counted nominally in the 'East' -- but not like Kharkov (Kharkiv), Donetsk and Lugansk, -- Ukraine's industrial base. 

Dnipropetrovsk is a steel and university town, once a closed Soviet city where they made and based bombers and missiles.

I move easily among Ukrainians - and not taking sides is not so much of a problem; I'm old enough I get respect and seem to pose no threat to anyhone and am respectful, as every photographer who takes images of people should be (but I don't take BS from anyone who doesn't have a gun or a big gang threatening me, and frankly no one does).

Snipers seemed (in retrospect) to have killed everyone, from riot police to LOTS of protesters, to even bystanders/those caught innocently in the mellee, so there's more to be said, but that was just over when this photo was taken, but the risk of Russia coming was present, and if they'd come, there'd have been real war, not riot police, and there'd have been a bloodbath against the Russians with no holds barred --at least in Kyiv and to the West.

By the way, language is not everything, one friend has two daughters, two years apart. One speaks Russian for almost everything and is inseparable from her younger sister who speaks Ukrainian for almost everything.

In Kyiv the majority speak both, though Russian seems to win out by a large majority, but it abides with the West.  If you want to see partisanship for Ukrainian, go to Lvov on the Western border, where Ukrainian is spoken and people correct Russian speakers, as they did me when I went there on entering Ukraine the first time ten years ago.

I also shoot a higher-ISO sensor, a D3200 for stealth in crowds and on the Metro. It doesn't fire as well or as easily, but it has very high ISO sensitivity, and its dynamic range appears to be much greater than the D7000. I had much equipment stolen just less than a month before leaving.

Sadly.

I make do with what I have.

Very good sometimes.

I think I could take good enough photos with a brownie.  My first REAL photo was with a brownie, a portrait.

It's how you see, then the camera only allows your vision to come to fruition.

I took wonderful photos with film 40 years ago, better or equal to what I take today, but limited by film's ISO limitation and limitations of bad zoom optics which meant 'no zoom use'.

Look at some of my old stuff and see.

Just give me any old camera and pixel peepers be darned.

A man I know, a curator, printer, and Lucie award winner (to be) said to me he was sitting with famous photographer, Sally Mann,, in her garden where she used an astigmatic lens on an old view camera. 

Bang, the lens fell to the ground as they were seated, he said.  It was unsecured well and just fell; no particular fault.  It was very old.

Unruffled, she used tape or something to affix the lens back in place and barely missed a beat.  Her photos sell for tens of thousands of dollars, and she's hardly a pixel peeper -- her bellows may leak, but that only adds to the photo's charm!

That's an attitude to admire.

That being said, I like Nikon for its look and feel.   (I like the menus,  placement of controls, and its continuity from year to year - if you can operate one, it translates to the next, and so on.)

Thanks for the kind comment.

john

John (Crosley)

You made an interesting point about the 'red flag' and its relation to a scene in 'Les Miserables' (the movie).

There, a horseman with red flag on standard interrupts a funeral cortege surrounded by a vast crowd, the the crowd is inflamed, and the cry, 'The Republic is Ours!"

But swordwielding soldiers on horseback ride into the crowd cutting them   down, and the crowd is exhorted to 'man the barricades' which they begin to build from overturned carriages, paving stones, etc.

Here the barricades were built at the end of fall, start of winter from bricks, stones, sandbags, snow and 'stuff', and still are in place, (minus the snow), and the red flag (flag of neighboring Poland, an EU member, showing solidarity with Ukraine as they share a common border and somewhat the same heritage), is waved 'after' the barricades have done their job, mostly separating the almost completely peaceful tent camp dwellers from the Berkut (riot police).

So, the order of flag and barricades is reversed in the Ukraine version.

But the analogy is apt however reversed, and I thank you for giving me something to think about, view, and cogitate on.

Bless you.

Maybe there's something 'universal' about this photo?

If so, maybe it's one that will stand the test of time, even though that's NOT the Ukraine flag.  It 'felt' universal when I took it, which is why I persevered.

For God's sake, even Meir Samel liked it, and that's almost like an act of God when it comes to a photo of mine, that Meir'd state such a thing publicly, without appearing to cross his fingers behind his back.

;~))

john

John (Crosley)