'The Wages of a Long Life'

'The Wages of a Long Life' is reflected in the image of this woman,

walking down a sidewalk in a Ukrainian village. Your ratings,

critiques and observations are invited and most welcome. If you rate

harshly, very critically or wish to make a remark, please submit a

helpful and constructive comment; please share your photographic

knowledge to help improve my photography. Thanks! Enjoy! john

Very good capture. Contrast and composition and "about" is top notch. It's how's long life turns shorter. Thanks for sharing.

I had just walked out of temporary quarters where I sometimes stay when visiting Ukraine (I don't live there).

I walked less than half a block, saw her coming and just stood there, camera adjusted as she walked toward me.  I try always to have camera adjusted, even as I walk into subway underpasses and out again.

This was one of a series of shots of her; first of the day.  (see long shadows).

In the USA, you can't take such shots, older peope are in cars chauffeured by relatives or shut in to old folks homes and shuttled to and from places by special vans, often in places where mistakenly photography is 'not allowed[' under penalty of police being called. (That's one big reason I photograph in Ukraine).

john

John (Crosley)

Excellent photograph and excellent title.  John, you are one of the few people who can write a good title.  The title says everything about this image. You got the right moment.  You can feel how slow and how painful her little journey must be.

You just need to know the places in North America (not very common, I agree) - look at Lawrence Paiken works:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=12661634

Thank you so much for the nice comment on both the photography and the caption. Long ago (decades ago) I wrote captions for a while for Associated Press at their New York world headquarters, and their World General Manger tapped me on the shoulder (figuratively) and offered to mentor me to become successor general manager. 

It was less than 25 and was to wait a long time and get plum interim assignments to 'age' me and give me experience.

I figured it was a cheap outfit so I moved on, at four times the salary to write and take photos for a magazine, turned down an editorship of Business Week Magazine, then went to law school, and am now back to taking photos.  Full circle so to speak but so far less lucrative.

Thanks again.

john

John (Crosley)

Vlad, thanks for the link; I looked and will look more.  I'm always open to looking at the good work of others, even on subjects I photograph. 

;~))

john

John (Crosley)

Hi John. composition wise this is great. tHE metaphor with the climb and the row of bricks.. however i think we have to be careful of not being too repetitive when it comes to photography. It needs some more space at the top it appears a liittle too  much like your are trying to squeeze her.Of course there is no doubt that this photo is relevant  with style and technique but not out of the ordinary.Just my opinion.

Thank you for the compliment on the composition. 

However, I think you have overanalyzed this to find a metaphor that is not quite there - basically an overanalysis.

There is no 'climb' and no 'row of bricks'.  She's on a level sidewalk and the 'bricks' you see are parts of a fence alongside the sidewalk as fence supports.

So, in view of that, I'm unaware of how to view the rest of your analysis and your conclusion. 

Of course, any photo of an old lady on a sidewalk risks being a cliche, and that's just life. 

One posts one in sunlight, another in a dark alleyway, another at dusk, and so on, and they all can be called cliches or they can be called original and different looks; this is the first I've seen frontal, with two canes showing a face, and not overhead.

Understand - a cliche depends on what you have seen before . . . . and how much those seen prior have spoiled the entire subgenre for one.

No claim was made that it was 'out of the ordinary', and in fact, I profess that even though my viewpoints often are 'out of the ordinary' I specifically profess to photograph life's ordinary moments with life's ordinary people, just sometimes in ways that one would not expect, but not always.

In that regard, I did attempt to photograph her as part of a commonly seen view, though one not too often recorded, especially in the USA where the old are shut in, chauffeured in autos or locked up in 'old folks homes' or other facilities with photography forbidden. 

(I get along great with such people by the way, and mostly respect their wishes and mostly get their blessings and share my captures when asked and sometimes when not to enlighten them and compliment them.)

One cannot always pick one's passersby; they arise as in this instance, just as one comes across such people; entirely spontaneously, as there is no line of very old ladies to set up to encounter so one can practice varying one's viewpoint.

One must be happy with what one sees, or just don't post.

If one is posting in a gallery, then one might omit this shot unless it were world class, and it's not.  But if one is posting on a club, then it's just for fun, and as you note, a worthwhile capture.

A photo like this happens in two to three seconds, hardly more, and one gets chances like this only once in several years if that, and only if one carries a camera around one's neck all the time in a country where the old folks aren't locked up in a 'no cameras allowed' setting, like almost all the US.

Thanks for making the attempt and for the compositional analysis and compliments.  

By the way, I use repetition as a tool, and I'm not offended by its use here, specifically because the pole, right, breaks up the receding lines behind her.

;~))

john

John (Crosley)

HI JOHN. As someone who is well travelled and has seen  many regions of the U.S. I can assure you that on any given day you can run into many many octogenarians or even people in their 90s.,taking part in society and not locked up in a Home. Some examples Florida, Palm Springs, even Burlington Vermont. Perhaps the elderly that i am accustomed to running into are of a different socio-ecomomic class and therefore appear healthier and in better spirits than this woman? I know that your healthcare systems isnt very democratic.

Yes your photo is cliche, and a bit stereotypical. People love this stuff as you can tell by the comments and ratings its made the grade. There are many elderly folks by the pool on the beach, at a restaurant , in the parks,,etc We prefer to see the crippled, frail, poverty stricken ones. You have to look i guess. My critique is my  personal feeling and i knew that you wouldnt agree because it goes against the grain and thats ok. When we understand that half the people on earth are below the average intelligence level we stop taking these critiques so seriously and just focus on interesting, relevant photography. 

Hi Carla,

i've been in Miami, Palm Springs and long ago (supposedly before an influx of very old people) Burlington, VT. 

In the most part, I was not overwhelmed by the number of older people except in certain parts of Miami, and then they mostly were NYC refugees, Jewish and it was expected they'd retire to Florida, but this was not so recently; in Palm Springs, I was less aware of the older, in part perhaps because i was there 'off season, but a neighbor when I grew up, whose husband died, and who was a prize winning author, wintered every year in Palm Springs (she wrote kids books, but wished to write adult books "I know all those words, you know', she explained' and 'writing is writing' (Dodd Mead Award for children's writing)

When elderly are affluent, they ride in cars, have help, dress nicely, and do not stick out, but a woman like this, less affluent is VERY aged and must get along on her own, and if not, she perishes. Her ability to get around is perhaps what keeps her alife; isf she were a shut in, unless children were dependable, she woud not survive, although this is a city of sanatoria (hospital like places).

 But obviously from her shopping, she lives in a residence of her own, not in any sanatorium, and those are for 'sick' people, though stays can be enormously long, not the typical 1-3 day stay of a US hospital for all  but the most sick or chronic.

In Ukraine if you to go hospital if it likely for a week or longer, and there may be little or no heat towards the end of or start of a winter and precious little food except what family brings you, except PRIVATE hospitals which can be to high European standards and has doctors which will care and nursing staff which will answer call buttons (and you do get call buttons, unlike the local hospitals)

I had a grandma who lived until nearly 90 and died only of dehydration because an alocholic son who was to get her liquids apparently went on a bender and neglected hydrating her, so she died from dehydration, or she might have lived past 100, so I'm no stranger to older people.

Most of her older life she walked to the supermarket and back every day and ate in her favorite Chinese restaurant each night.  I'd do the same if I could; I love Chinese.

I am not sure the ratings are very high; in times past the current rates would have said 'failure' or mediocre at best.  Maybe things have changed.

Stereotypical?    For some?  Maybe. For US residents, few have seen such things, so how the stereotype?  Maybe on this service . . . . which is international in scope.

In any case, it is not my intention to avoid stereotypes or cliches, but to capture the everyday, and if it's 'original' and never seen before, so much the better, but if it looks like someone else did it, so what?  MY work has been compared to some of the greats in photography, but scads of different artists, across genres.

I must be doing something right.

You state:

 When we understand that half the people on earth are below the average intelligence level we stop taking these critiques so seriously and just focus on interesting, relevant photography.

I have no understanding of what that statement means.  Perhaps you can enlighten me, as I see little relationship between the introductory clause and the predicate clause, but with your help, I might be able to parse that sentence. and try to understand the causality you posit.

Best wishes.

john

John (Crosley)

John, let me 'parse' it for you :-) Carla is saying that photo.netters are not "rocket scientists". Enjoy the photographs. Ignore the critiques. As for your sentence response, I could not 'parse' that in a f-ing million years. But then again, I'm not a rocket scientist.

In another life, I once hung with numerous people from numerous professions from the lowest menial jobs to the highest hi-tech professions and scientists.

I once stumped a rocket scientist with this question:  What is the planet (of the then 9 recognized) that is farthest from the sun?  His answer, after considerable reflection, looking for a 'trick' was Pluto.

The true answer was 'Uranus' since Pluto was in a highly eccentric orbit and at that particular time the then planet of Pluto was nearer the sun that Uranus.

I won the bet but turned down the money.

The 'rocket scientist's' job?  Designing and building a satellite for NASA-AMES Research Center that would possibly prove Einstein''s Special Theory of Relativity.  

I have flown in first class with Dick Thornburgh, former attorney general of the US, the Labor Minister of Australia (who lost his job predictably after returning to Australia, since I realized I knew more about labor in Australia than that dunce did, even though he had just met with Alan Greenspan; I have sat on a plane participating in a seminar with Arthur Burns (former and future Chairman of the President's Council of Economic Advisers as he (and two other former presidental economic advisers discussed economics, and the plane was stuck on the ground 5 hours for repairs before a two hour flight, all of which was devoted to talk of economics while I CUT an economics class. 

That's the circles I sometimes traveled in.

Yet at the same time in summers I worked on a farm, worked in a supermarket, and worked 'green chain' for  giant lumber mill as well as their 'shipping shed' loading lumber and plywood into boxcars, sometimes to get money served cocktails to swank Park Avenue parties populated with the famous and superwealthy, and seamlessly worked my way to Viet Nam as an ordinary seaman chipping paint and steering a giant freighter loaded with bombs and mortars to the War (we had three fires aboard during that trip and also were becalmed with no power because of an engine breakdown in the middle of the Pacific for a week, and at the end, we were hit sideways for days by 18 to 30-foot swells from three different far-away typhoons causing the mates to lash down everything down, to keep things in the ship's house from becoming projectiles with each new swell.

I've been a war photographer, with my career in Viet Nam cut short by results of a gunshot

Parse that.

I have experience, and I have much understanding of much in life because of my huge experience.

I can understand many things that pass most people by, but unfortunately not Carla's last sentence, or your explanation of it, which doesn't comport with her grammer and therefor appears merely a stab at trying to explain the inexplicable, or a mere guess, perhaps lucky.

Let's let Carla explain herself.

john

John (Crosley)

To parse or not to parse that is the questiion.Meir summed it up quite adequately John. We are addicts for others approval convincing ourselves that others approval and recognition matter to our self worth. it takes practice and courage not to place any level of importance on someone elses opinion.If you dont understand my grammar or my intentions concerning   my critique ... thats your problem i dont give a flying,,F..k ,,, and i aint no rocket scientist either!

Reading the early exchange between you and Carla, I do not see the subject as being portrayed as infirm at all.  Indeed, it is obvious that she has paid her dues with interest.  But I don't detect any expression of pain on her face - instead, it's a look of determination.  Her years and her needing assistance to walk have steeled her to continue living proudly and with dignity.

Your DOF is spot on, giving the viewer a perspective on how far the subject has walked.

My best,

michael

Your careful reading of the above has allowed you to put your verbal finger on precisely part of the problem in my understanding of the critique given above -- that of viewer projection.

People project what they think they see in photos such as this, but yours seems to be a more objective eye, and I trust your analysis of this woman subject's viewpoint, with her determination, for it's precisely what I saw.

You did not overanalyze (no climb or fall, bricks are only a wall, nothing more), and analyzed the perspective and composition as I did, without seeming bias -- good for you.

I don't need 'approval' as accused; the photo posted at the same time as this was bound to get '3' ratings and did for the longest time.  I knew and expected that, but posted  it anyway. 

Amazingly it has climbed in ratings as interesting critiques have come in, but then I didn't really give a flying 'F' what they were, and only once, twice or three times a year out of 20 postings a month do I take anything down, and that's not ratings driven, but driven by unseen deficits that critiques may have revealed or my own more careful viewing.

Thank you for a careful and more objective analysis, free from overanalysis and projection.  You see that I saw and tried to capture, and think I did.

If predicate critiques are drawn from biased viewing and analysis, the predicate will suffer likewise, but not yours.

Best to you, and thanks.

john

John (Crosley)

(no rocket scientist, but I can converse with rocket scientists or field workers, and when something inexplicable is presented to me, I'm not afraid to say 'the king has no clothes' or words of similar import.)

jc

I very often see such scenes. And I do not seem unusual. But when you see such scenes, you're comparing life in the Ukraine with life in America. And you see the difference in standard of living. I do not know if I would take a shot or not. Most of all - no, I can not compare with the other life.

you lost the bet. good you did not take the money.

The "wages of long life" are arthritus. :-(( 

Yes, I see Ukraine through the filter of the eyes of an America/Westerner and there ultimately are comparisons in almost every case, some better, some worse.

I hope it makes for some richness in my photography.  I think if you went to America, you'd take scenes, i wouldn't take. 

When I invited a guest decades ago, a now famous German photographer, she took photos of American garbage, which it turns out America is famous for/my country's garbage (mooser) is iconic in its abundance.  I'd never have thought to take such photos, but for her they were a success.

;~))

We each have our own cultural filter(s).

john

John (Crosley)

Meir, there was no bet i was aware of.

You propose a good alternate caption (title), as i can personally attest.

john

John (Crosley)

you wrote John: "I won the bet but turned down the money." Sounds like a bet to me.

after she gets down the hill can she get back up? Or the decent is a metaphor - but I'm not into metaphors.

There is no hill, explained above.

john

John (Crosley)

As to Pluto, I won the bet -- see your Almanac.  Uranus at that time was farther from the sun than Pluto.

john

John (Crosley)