'Youths'

The caption (title) just about says it all. Your ratings, critiques,

and observations are invited and most welcome. If you rate harshly,

very critically or wish to make an remark, please submit a helpful and

constructive comment; please share your photographic knowledge to help

improve my photography. Thanks! Enjoy! john

You rated this a '3' and it's not a black cat in a coal mine at night.  In fact it's in focus and the histogram is fully filled out, dark to light, and that was done with full intent.

Were you rating downward to the bottom published rating because you were upet at the unconventional framing?

If so, then I consider this photo a success.

Photos are not always to make people, including raters, 'feel good'.

'Feeling good' is nice, but if that were judge of good photography, then this service would be full of photos of cuddly babies, puppies, pretty landscapes, flowers and nothing else.

Some photos that aspire to be good can be about stirring up feelings and making viewers inquire, and if a '3' rating was stirred because of some animus about 'youths' or 'unconventional framing' then so be it.

I then would count this photo as quite a success, if somehow it moved you off dead center, and a '3' rating for a properly exposed photo, histogram filled completely, properly in focus with an identifiable subject matter, suggests this photo somehow got under your skin.  You had to register displeasure and tell me my photo fell below average standards.

I personally don't think so.

But good if you did that.

I'll then take that '3' rating as a sign of success, especially if by its unconventionality it got under your photographic skin.

Unless you care to comment, explain your rating, and tell me otherwise.  [please see 'request for critique' wording]

This ain't no cuddly baby or colorful flower photo.

john

John (Crosley)

This is an excellent photo John.  I like it a lot and give it a 7.  K.C.

I'm not so young, but I generally know the tastes of my audience.

Mostly this is a photo for the tastes of youth.

Also it might appeal to the more avant garde and those willing to challenge conventional authority and/or wisdom - something I do from time to time, but NOT for the thrill of the challenge or to upset people, just because I LIKE to make such photos occasionally.

This man is young, he saw it and called it in Russian 'bad'.

Really, his first word on seeing this was ploka (ploho).

But a friend saw it and called it wonderful, and looked at this guy like he didn't know what he was talking about.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

He wanted in this unposed, candid photo in his mind's eye to have see himself full frontal, lit fully by sunlight, with him smiling, hood off.

I told him 'no way'. It'll be my way or no way.  '

'This one's good,' I told him.

I  told him that he had to be shown with hood on, as he was when he walked by and I took this photo (I took others, also good, later).  The hood's shadow gave great light.

I looked at him, showed him this to see if it would change his mind, and said enthusiastically 'Rock Star!  CD Cover!'. 

His friend nodded agreement with a smile.

Unconventional is unconventional.

Such framing is something a guy with experience like me posts because it's 'good' in my own eyes, not because I expect people to pat me on the back.

(I do like pats, but I don't live for them.)

I'm glad this is your cup of tea, Katie.  Thanks for letting me know.

john

John (Crosley)

I was planning on taking this guy's photo, and it seems he was going to cooperate with me -- egged on by a dear one nearby.

I took this before the collaboration began.

Other photos, taken later, were quite good, but this one was the best of the bunch.

Some who shoot and delete might have deleted this.

I almost never delete except for profound out of focus.

I was so pleased with this one, not knowing if anyone would like it, that I stayed up to 3:00 a.m. to edit then post it.

john

John (Crosley)

Strong photo.

Well done

greetings, Jo

Thanks for the comment.

john

John (Crosley)

A excellent street story John. I do hope you still have your camera! Regards. Bob

This was taken extremely recently, as was the one posted previously.

I hope that answers your question.

If I'm without a camera (or many) I feel naked, and people who know or recognize me even ask questions; if I go for a loaf of bread without my camera, the grocer asks 'why?' and 'where is it?'

After a while, there's no explaining to do when people associate you with taking photographs; that's 'just what he does'.

Thanks for the nice compliment.

john

John (Crosley)

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a great capture of a fraction of a second in time and space.  Everything works very well together in what many would consider multiple unconventional elements.  The composition is wonderful. It doesn't matter if it was by chance in just getting your camera to get some kind of photographic record or by choice. It is only the end result that matters.

If you can make someone feel uncomfortable then you are successful. 

A photograph either works or it doesn't. Some people get it some don't. That is the beauty of art.

It works for me.  I got something from it.

 

I KNEW from the moment I saw this that it was special.

Everything you write is so true; I wish my readers would pay special attention to your comment.

The fellow, background,  friend, realized he'd been captured and although I wished to include him in background of posed shots, he refused, turning his back.

This is one of those happy circumstances.

I saw it, and I snapped my shutter, KNOWING it would be good (to my tastes at least).

I also knew from moment one how to  work it up for display, as it was captured in color and had to be desaturated, etc., of course.

I'm glad for your thoughtful remarks; I'm glad it speaks to you.

john

John (Crosley)

in youthspeak it rocks! both figures, in their stances, compliment and complement each other and the almost featureless backdrop deflects the viewers eye to them - no detours or diversions...

Obviously, if hired, I could do album (CD) covers.

This would make an excellent one, don't you think?

It would certainly stand out AND draw in teenage girls (and its graphically strong, as you note so well).

Substitute any two members of any group, and voila.

Unhappily this is not released; I know where to find the 'subject' and maybe he'd give me one,but the man, background, a friend, was camera shy, as noted above.  A release from him would be problematic.  I may try, however; I go to the area where they were, quite frequently.

Thanks for the 'it rocks' comment.

It's among my favorites; it's a 'right on' comment.

I think many people don't think this is what I can do; I tend to surprise people just when they think I'm pigeon-holed or 'stale'.

You're comments are always welcome here.

john

John (Crosley)

Great and powerful image John. I do have a couple of suggestion that I would change if it were my image. I have a tendancy to do this one as well. I think you have whitened the eye a bit too much. Also I would lose or darken the white spot on his shoulder as well as the highlight spots to the left of the background person's shoulder and down at the bottom where his leg and the main character's shoulder come together. It sounds like you have been around awhile an probably know this trick. Just in case you don't, I always view my images upside down when I think I'm done. If there are any distractions to what you want to convey you will definately see them then. I learned this from composing my images up side down as a large format photographer for years. Great image no matter how you slice it though john. Thanks for sharing.

Paul, I spent more time on that damned eye and still couldn't get it toned down without muddying it.

There must be a trick, like cloning blood vessels or something, but I'm not aware of it.

I comment you for one of the most constructive technical criticisms ever -- every point was spot on and ones I would tend to if image edit this again or revise it.

This one was a chore, and the eye was the absolute worst, but it was the key, so i kept at it, and it still isn't perfect in your view.  Ah well.

At least the whole composition holds together.

I'm very glad you stopped by with advice; please do so again, soon.

Your precise and helpful attention to this photo is very flattering.

john

John (Crosley)

(so much to those who say I'm 'thin-skinned about criticism' -- those few who have complained just need to look at the quality of their criticism!!! ;!))))

jc

Such eyes can scare ...

I hope you are joking.

This man (boy) is completely harmless; he has no idea how 'cool' he looks; he wanted to look like  person in a family photograph, sunlight on his face, no hood, smiling and full of light.

I tried to convince him otherwise AFTER I had taken this photo.

I'm interested to see if he ever looks at this photo on this service and re-evaluates.

Best to you my compatriot.

john

John (Crosley)

You are very welcome John. Don't sweat the eye, its still a great image and now looking at it again the whiteness adds to the intensity.

I like the framing, composition and processing. However what drew me to the thumbnail in the first place was his eye. The look on his face and his eye made him look menacing and I thought what a story there and good timing to catch it. I'm not skilled yet enough to offer suggestions on how to fix the eye but as for the rest I think its a good street shot.

It's a very fine line, the whiteness of that eye.  Just  a single pass with a burn at 0% darkens it too much.

Any other method of selection and adjusting intensity of the white does the same thing.

Frankly, I was stumped, but if I ever exhibited  this, I'd consult a Photoshop professional for a rework to see if they can do bettter, as the eye is the key.

Thanks for the endorsement.

john

John (Crosley)

 

It is true that the eye is the essence of this photo, or at least its first draw, but without the very interesting composition, this would be a throwaway.   The eye is like icing in the cake.

In discussion above you can see that reducing its intensity may indeed result in its being reduced to insignificance; it may be required to be so white for the effect, which is contrary to most of my ethos against obvious image editing.

But there are exceptions for everything, and I'm now not so certain I'd change that eye, or if I did, might be sure there were only emphasis on blood vessels in it, or contrast changes in the white, as no all whites are purely white if you look close enough, depending on the age and health of the eye's owner.

Thank you for a very nice compliment.  I'm open to criticism, too.  In looking this over, I think I would have left a little more room at the right on the crop -- not much, but just smidgen.

But there's a saying, 'Don't Mess With the Ju-Ju' - when something's successful, don't rework it too much.  Don't go making 'New Coke' from the world's most succesful drink only to find people liked 'old Coke' better.

;~))

john

John (Crosley)

Excellent composition and mood. 

Thanks for the compliment.

I was a little surprised to find a few viewers remarking he looks 'scary' in this era of rock stars when 'hoodies' are all the fashion, or at least recently were.

In America six months ago it was hard to find colder weather gear without a hood, primarily as a fashion accessory, whereas ten years prior, hoods were practically nonexistent, except on cheap sweatshirts.

I almost always learn from the critiquing process, which is why I participate so actively.

Thanks for your feedback; it's helpful.

john

John (Crosley)

as a thumbnail, the eye was not noticable...and without that issue, I absolutely love the composition and the  mood of the photo!

The eye has been very fairly obviously photoshopped once you view this photo in full detail...I am not a PS expert, but I am guessing the original, this area was pretty much very dark and so I can imagine trying to create realism would be difficult...if you post the original perhaps some can tinker with it a bit...I would not mind a try myself...

Regarding 3/3 ratings....myself as a beginner, I am always dismayed by a 3/3 without an acompanying critique...for me, I am glad to have people find significant problems with my photos, as it is all a learning opportunity...but there are some folks that use a bit of time and simply rate the photos for a bit and that is it at times...I just do not let it bother me anymore...

I contemplated simply doing photo-critique only without ratings...but if there are enough 3's and 4's, then I start to make some basic assumptions about the photo lacking "impact" perhaps...but if only a few low balls, then I do not stress it...

I had a 'vision' for this photo when I saw it, then when it was desaturated, and that included a very white 'white' of this young man's eyeball.

Getting there was a tortuous route that involved many tries, few very successful, and most far, far more obvious and deficient than this one.  I  persisted and got to a point where something was barely presentable and posted that.

I'd love to share this one, but it's a big file size, and I'd want to share the NEF file, as it should be worked on from the start, not from some worked up JPEG version.

Let me know; my e-mail's on my bio page, and just give me a shout.

It may take me a day or two to get back, and make sure your incoming e-mail's big enough to hold a large 'attachment' or it may reject.  Same with the totality of your incoming e-mail capacity; if this might fill it up, important e-mails could get sent back as 'rejected - e-mail at capacity' and you might not realize it.

That is less of a problem now than before. 

I also am open to other suggestions for transmission that don't involve mailing and disks.

As to low raters; I thought I'd call out the initial low rater, but with a qualification - that if they were upset by the composition's being unusual and not 'form book', 'textbook' or from some 'manual' on 'how to take an ordinary photograph' then they were fully entitled to give this a '3' and with my blessings.

Later this was scoring over 5.5 and another individual did the same thing, drastically lowering the scores - when there were few scores -- almost knocking it out of the 5's, but many, many people liked it very much and blessedly, there have been many raters, and then who cares about a few threes?

I put my trust mostly in the rating system, even mostly for unusual photos.

There are a few photos where the system in my mind fails - some are gallery quality and level photos where it takes some inner idea of what is cutting edge in 'art' and 'photo art' to understand a 'concept' (a word which sometimes has gallery owners and collectors ga-ga--the word 'concept'), and those photos often fall flat, misunderstood or unseen by the vast majority of Photo.net members.

I appreciate very much the points you made in your critique.

Let me know if you wish to follow up.

john

John (Crosley)