scotland forever Come-On-Eileen (B & W)

This was one of the reasons for visiting Scotland, I'd seen photo's and

had to see it for myself. But it was a bit more tricky photographing it

than I thought. The dramatic clouds and mist were totally absent and

instead we had clear skys and sunshine. So I have processed this one

in B & W and another in colour. But can't decide which image the

remote beauty of the place is better communicated. Your thoughts and

observations are always appreciated. Thank You.

Alf, Thanks for this thoughtful photos.  I think you could go with either the color or this B&W.  The color one as you've presented it here has more detail and punch.  However, all that rich color does distract from the form itself and doesn't signify "remoteness" for me.  Instead, it looks a little fantastic.  I suspect with some work this B&W might achieve this purpose better.  Or possibly tone down the color image to reveal the form.  Best wishes, Carson.

Hi Alf,

Both the color image and BW nice. I like the " impressions" that they make when I look at them.

However, several interesting factors have transpired because of the use of F/8:

1] The color correction for the Nikkor zoom became compromised  such that the sharpness of the color image is less than that of the BW. This is typical of many zoom lens. The f-stop not only effects the resolution capability but also the contrast and color correction designed into the lens.

These effects are mapped across the sensor, such that the pixels even behave in an different manner. 

The perception that this color image shows more detail is only that. It is not fact.

2] Color assignments to BW vary due to many factors. You can convert an image into BW after the color shot was taken , or you can shot it as a BW from the camera prior to post processing. There are many schemes for BW conversion to use in post processing, but that is another complex topic not to be addressed here. In tri-color imaging, where individual R, G, and B channels are recorded as BW levels can also be combined in many ways to create color images. Again, this is all interesting science, but not relevant at this time.

I trust that you are satisfied with either or both results the result, as that is what is most important.

I stay away from commenting much upon personal preferences, scene distractions, what should be here or there, etc. as my expertise resides in the technical side of photography across a very large range of applications with camera and lens.

Best Regards,  Mike

Great capture, as usually great lighting, perfectly chosen object and lighting, weather etc and the result is as I said in the subject! Thank you for your generosity to show a decent size of the picture Alf, it is of great importance to me!

Best regards!

PDE

I prefer bw. version..but  both of them are very beautiful

Hi Alf,  Although possibly completely irrelevant, your title above actually made me remember right away that song by

, which was one of my favorites at the time. (= long time ago...!)  & I hadn't listened to it in years, so thank you for reminding me of it again & I listened to it, while looking at your lovely photos :-)

I too like both versions, although they both convey a totally different mood and feeling to me. The color photo would look stunning in a travel coffee-table book, while the B&W version (& yes, with possibly a bit more adjusted contrast, to further enhance the visual impact of this beautiful place), will look good on anybody's wall,  I think...  I like your straightforward and well balanced composition. Although clear skies & sunshine might make for a less dramatic photo, I hope that you enjoyed your stay in Scotland in other ways (in addition to photography) as well :-)

Best wishes to you and yours, Alf, for warm & wonderful Holidays. Marjolein

the bw is stark, strong, Scotland.... emphasis of the vastness of water surrounding the remote castle. a masterful choice of angle and distance, Sir Alf. perfect, imho ;-} do

CARSON

Sincere Thanks for your thoughtful and well considered feedback, very much appreciated. I always struggle with B & W never really knowing whats right or wrong, and just going on what feels right at the time without any pre-determined work pattern. But The version Michel illustrated was quite impressive so I will hopefully glean some knowledge from that. The colour image had very little processing, but was illuminated by the early morning sun, and I think thats where it might look a little over saturated. But I take on board your comments I think you have made some excellent suggestions.

Best Regards

Alf

MIKE

Well "impressions" are what its all about so as long as I'm making good ones I'll take that as a positive : - )

I'm a bit confused over the "colour correction become compromised"  because the colour version and the B & W version are processed from the same RAW file. I think a far more simple explanation is I applied a tad more "Unsharp Mask" to the B & W version which could give the impression you describe.

There are also other processing factors that could contribute to the impression you describe, but they are complex and numerous to describe, so I shall decline doing so on this ocassion.

As as being "Satisfied with either or both results" nothing could be further from the truth! Very rarely am I "satisfied" with a photograph, I  seek to improve and do better, and always will. And the very reason I post my images here on Photo.net is to invite scrutiny, critique and posiitve suggestions for improvement such as you have delivered. I do not see it as a forum for showcasing my work in a self satisfied way at all. The day I become "satisfied" with my work is probably the same day as I will consider it boring and give it up altogether, However such is the depth of knowledge contained therein the genre, and the relative time it would take to aquire it so short, then I don't think this is ever going to be a likely outcome.

Thank you sincerely for your most informative and interesting contribution as always.

Best Regards

Alf

PIERRE

This is what I love about PN, the last comment was all about science and yours is all about ART, what more could I wish for, such a wonderful cross section of photographic expertise. Many thanks for sharing your thoughts and impressions Pierre! Much appreciated!

Best Regards

Alf

MEHMET

Sincere Thanks for stopping by to share your thoughts and preferences, much appreciated!

Best Regards

Alf

MARJOLEIN

Ahhh You found me out again, yes I stole the title from Dexy's Midnight Runners, it was a favourite of mine too! In fact I can't say the title without singing it, thankfully for everyone within earshot, just in my head : - ) But the real location name is Eilean Donan Castle, I just used a bit of poetic license.

Yes I can see where your coming from with the travel magazine, it's the type of photo you could see in one of those, and when you do, you inevitabley think "I'll bet it doesn't look like that really" or perhaps thats just my lack of faith in travel agents : - )

The composition was an interesting factor, I wanted desperately to keep the bridge with the three arches in the frame, but couldn't get a wide shot at say 14mm without the castle being too central, the only way I could get it to look offset in a thirds position was by the shorter focal length of 31mm.

I loved the stay in Scotland, it was just magical!

Sincere Thanks for your thoughtful and well considered feedback Marjolein and may I wish you and yours a  Merry Christmas and a peaceful and proserprous New Year!

DONNA

Sincere Thanks for your interest and thoughtful feedback, much appreciated. I'm glad you mentioned the angle and distance, as this was yet another consideration that come into play when composing the image, as well as the rising / falling tide, and the angle of the sun. A bit of a challenge, and I think I got lots of the others totally wrong in terms of composition, and this one............well better than some of the others I took : - ) I don't really know what I've done for you to bestow the honourable title of "Sir" on me, but I can assure you I'm just a commoner : -)  Great to hear from you Donna!

Best Regards

Alf

A most excellent photograph. I love the reflection. I love the texture of the water and the tones of the b&w. Excellent composition. I prefer the b&w  over the color version but it is a close call for me.

Great image you have here Alf.

a bit more than commoner, Alf... a landscape photographer of the realm, lol... just trying to keep you shooting "This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England." as the bard called it, lol. and all UK because it's a unique neck of the woods, that island of yours, and you shoot it with a knowing eye, imho. ;-} dp

For me with this fabulous location shot, it has to be b/w as it entirely sums up all the romantisicism that these old scottish type castles seem to depict. The reflection adds gloriously to the whole scene as does all the water weed. All I would have done would be to eliminate the flagstaff as it brings the modern day  into focus when everything else screams 18th century. A fine work Alf....Regards!

I know, I know.  You started it.  It really needs colour.  Perhaps a red or orange filter for the greyscale conversion.  best, j

Alf,

The colour version would make a very good 'calendar image', as it really grabs the viewers attention with its bright, saturated colours.  The colour version may elicit responses such as, "I would like to see that, or I would like to visit that place", whereas the B&W version is more likely to charge the viewer's imagination. It suggests a touch of 'time travel' and leaves me wanting to see more, I definitely spent more time viewing this version, when flipping back and forth I found myself studying the details and wondering and wishing.

Jim

JOE

Many thanks for your interest and encouraging  feedback, much appreciated. At the time I was wishing for a perfect wind free reflcction, but after viewing the images later decided I quite liked that wind rippled texture too. I prefer the B & W myself, but the version that Michel Latendresse added as a link under his response to the colour photo, take a look if you have time.

Cheers Joe have a Great Christmas !

Alf

DONNA

Now I can see you making that speech with a Union Jack flag draped around your shoulders, standing proud and upright in the back of your Chariot like a modern day "Bodica" the heroine of the ancient britons : - )

But you are right right Donna, this tiny island is unique and so diverse, I count myself as being very fortunate to inhabit it.

All my very Best Wishes to you and yours Donna, have a great Christmas!

Alf

KEITH

Yes thats what I thought too, it's the kind of wild remoteness that I was hinting at that seems so much better communicated in B & W but I still think Michels version, that he posted as a link in his response to the colour version has a lot more impact. Very good point about the flagstaff Keith It definately needs to go.

Sincere Thanks and Best Wishes for Christmas and New Year

Alf

JAMIE

I can't follow it up with a third song without a phonetic change to the words : - )

I haven't tried that method of conversion Jamie, and to be honest I'm a bit out of my depth with that one.........always a willing student though : - )

Best Wishes

Alf

JIM

Yes, it has been compared to a travel brochure type image, and I guess a calendar image  would be a good ananlogy too as well as a great compliment!  I thought the B & W was more about mood and atmosphere than the colour one, and I particualry liked Michels version that he posted as a link in his response the colour version.

Sincere Thanks Jim and My Very Best Wishes to you and yours for the coming season.

Best Regards

Alf

 

If you've got a raw file, you can send it.  What do you use, Photoshop?  j

I do have the original RAW file and I'd be only too glad to send it, but due the huge sze (24.4MB) my broadband won't be able to send. And as yet I haven't figured out how to reduce the size whilst still retaining it as a RAW file.

Currrently I use Lightroom as a RAW convertor and Photoshop 7 or CS3 for processing

Cheers Jamie

Alf

We just increased our broadband from 3 GB to 15 GB.  Party On!

There should be options for greyscale conversions in Lightroom.  Try yellow, orange, and red filters.  My wife had the same feeling about this picture, by the way.

I uploaded gratuitous Christmas images in my three accounts.  Have a look if you have time.  Merry Christmas!  best, j

Alf... I'm so late to this party that it's embarrassing, but what the heck, I'll offer a comment as well. I'm not a strong technician by choice, preferring the emotive side of photography and typically prefer color. Surprisingly, in this case I actually find the b/w the stronger image. As has been noted the color is excellent and is what I would expect to see as I "drive" up to this location. However, the b/w is what my imagination sees when I think of mystical Scotland... Mike

It's never too late and your comments are always most welcome! I guess theres a certain amount of technology and science that goes into every photograph. Personally I'm with you, it's the art and emotive aesthetics that do it for me too. The science is but the means to an end. I had a vision of this shot in my mind, and it was a wild day with swirling dark cloud so typical of Scotland, and yes it was B &W too, well as it turned out it was more like a summers day, but I managed the B & W part and I'm pleased you liked it too. It's worth checking out Michels version  of this in B & W, you'll find the link in his response to the colour version, I think he did a great job with it.

Many Thanks Mike and Best Wishes for 2012

Alf

More attractive than your color one.  I just guess the b/w has some kind of charming that th color one could not supply.  Best Regards,

I hope as I grow as a photographer I'll be able to identify WHY I like some images better than others.  Of course, sometimes I have very strong and definite reasons why I like/dislike an image.  But with an image like this, at my gut level I prefer the B&W, and I can't for the life of me articulate why.  Maybe it's the fact that it's an old building, and the B&W is more in keeping with that.  The tones are wonderful, and the B&W perhaps allows the interesting architecture to stand alone, without different colors interfering.  Gosh, I don't know, but I really love this scene, and I don't think the sky detracts at all.  The few clouds present are at least placed well. 

Humble apologies for my late response, a new PC and a new keyboard that refuses to obey my fingers are to blame!   : - )

WANGHAN

I agree, it's all sujective, but for me there is just a touch more mood and character to this one.

Sincere Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Alf

CHRISTAL

I predict you will NEVER know for certain why you like an image. Of course there are the more obvious reasons as you mention. But the perception of beauty is almost like a fingerprint, it is unique to our individual appreciation of aesthetics. Now whilst there are going to be common elements of beauty that can be appreciated by a majority, there are also millions off less obvious individual likes and dislikes which I think come from our life experiences. How many times have you heard people comment" I don't know what she see's in him" .......the fact is, sometimes we don't understand why we like certain things so theres no chance we can understand why someone else does. As a drunken friend once whispered loudly to me at a party "Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder"  : - ) lol.

Sometimes it's just a feeling.

Sincere thanks for your most eloquent and thought provoking feedback Christal.

Best Regards

Alf