The Roaring Lion- In Memoriam

In our country the holocaust day, the  soldiers memorandum that died defending the country, and the day of independence, are strongly connected together. The Roaring Lion is one of early memories and icon  of the country(J. Trumpeldor  and others, killled in 1920 in the upper Galilee battle. The statue ( by the artist A. Melnikov) is situated in Tel Chai ( life hill, free translation).

Thanks for viewing.

 

Thanks

"It is good to die for one's country." - J. Trumpledor   

Thanks!. You are right. The story is that when he was severly wounded nearly dying he said:" Never mind, it is good to die for our country". It is one of our  myth that was years before the country was declared.(1920...) 

Pnina, thank you for enlightening us about the history of the country. 'Roaring Lion' is a befitting memorial  for those who laid down their lives for your great Nation.

Thanks !, it is a document photographed 3 days ago in the Galilee. There is, in Tel Chay, a photography museum .I feel that  this file of never again is important for me  to document a drop of our revival after the holocaust of  II WW.

Pnina, absolutely.It would a record for posterity.

Beautiful !

 

Regards , Dan

Warm regards Pnina!

PDE

Nicely composed shot of this documantary picture, Pnina...my best

Hi, Pnina. I'm afraid I've been pretty scarce around here lately. I've been working on my pictures but, to tell the truth, without much in the way of passion or satisfaction. Until the last day or so I haven't even wanted to look at anyone else's photographs and when I do find one I like, like this one, I can't think of anything intelligent to say. I'm kind of in a funk but am trying to work through it. This is a truly beautiful place you have photographed here.

 Amal, Daniel, Pierre , Kallol, and Jack.

Jack, I hope you will continue and feel more enthusiastic  with your photography. You realy make my days with your eye/work/sense of humor / wonderful writing!I think it is enough for one human being!

A beautiful place and a beautiful sentiment.

As a photograph, I find it OK. The photograph doesn't get to my emotions as much as the idea you expressed in words. I could not make out the lion as a lion even at the enlarged version, so I needed your title to tell me it was a lion. For me, it's an adequate picture of a place though, as I said, the reasons for taking it and the sentiments you express are very important.

I'm sorry to be skeptical about the quote Donna has added here, but I am. Many die for their country in the service of absolutely awful ideals. It's only good to die for your country if you happen to agree with what that particular country is doing. And, unfortunately, with regard to most wars, those dying are merely dying in service of the rich and powerful who are sending them to war in the first place. I'd say, in most cases, it's been a complete waste and a bad thing to die for one's country. Of course, there are exceptions. WWII was certainly one of them. And it was only good to die for your country if you were on OUR side, right?

Was it good for all those American soldiers in the Vietnam War to die for their country? Is it good for all the fatherless children that war leaves behind?

I don't know, again, sorry to be so skeptical, but I think sometimes it's a NECESSITY to die for your country, but I'm not sure it's ever actually good.

I've heard many WWII vets talk. Many of them were kids of 18 who really had no idea what was going on and what they were doing. They rarely talk about the experience as good. They talk a lot (and more often prefer to remain silent) about the horrors of it. They are proud of themselves and the guys they served with, but the fight seems more to be a necessary evil and not something good. I look at dying for one's country the same way.

Pnina, the phrase you're looking for here is "In Memoriam."

A memorandum is a reminder notice. For example, a boss might send his workers a memorandum reminding them that there's a staff meeting tomorrow.

:-)

 First thanks for your explaining the English word meaning and difference, I have changed it and thank you very much, it is not the first time you are helpful in this direction which I appreciate and thank you much!

I was in Tel Chay  which is a very important  ethos/mythos of the founding of the new state of Israel many years before Israel was really announced

I came to Tel Chay to the well known  photographic museum( and school) to meet a well known Israeli photographer and his exhibition. We did not have time to go closer to the statue so it was photographed from quite a distance, but for me growing with that mythos was impossible to be there and not photographing at least documentary photo with an explanation..

Fred, I agree with you about the cause of "dying for your country" in wars, I think that Jews, in general see human life as sacred and  try  as much as possible not to harm life of soldiers and civilians in battle and wars. But if you are familiar a bit with Israel's history in the country's 63 years of existence and how it came to  being ,years before it was announced , so as you well said sometimes it is necessary to die for your country it is never  GOOD!

The story of Trumpeldor his life story can fit his words. I will upload a closer photo of this  statue and send you some links.  What do you think ?it is a very interesting subject for discussion , Thanks again.

I will try again

Fred,   Trumpeldor died trying to protect people. Like Pnina said, if you were more familiar with Jewish and Israeli history, you would understand that the concept of Jewish self-defense was still new.   I refer not to Israel but to Kishinev, Ukraine, 1903, where there was mass brutality and slaughter of Jews. Chaim Nachman Bialik,  a Hebrew poet, was sent as a correspondent and witnessed things that shook his  faith.  The Kishinev pogroms prompted the beginning of changes -- Jews not simply waiting for the Messiah to save them from pogroms, but the beginning of self-defense.    Trumpeldor helped form a group which ended up as early Jewish self-defense, which was sorely needed.  Too bad it didn't grew bigger faster, so Israel could have been used as a refuge from Hitler's madness when the majority of world yawned with documented indifference to the Shoah.  

I like Pnina's original pic because the lion, as you point out, almost gets lost in the expanse, which corresponds to the few in Trumpeldor's group.

Your criticism is Trumpeldor's success.  He allows us to be spoiled

Thanks.

Donna I have sent Fred some links about the life and circumstances of this story/mythos. You are very close to Israel's history, way before the country was founded. I wrote to Fred and am asking you , as  I don't know how much American Jewry and in other countries in galut are familiar with pre history of  the  state of Israel. Thanks for adding to the discussion.

My comments were not meant to address Jewish history or Israeli independence specifically. They were meant to question the generalized and abstract statement that "dying for one's country is good." That was the statement that was introduced. Had it been a more specific statement about something Trumpeldor accomplished or something about this particular memorial, I would have addressed it as such.

This world has known a lot of "dying for one's country" and it NEVER comes without a price, often paid by innocents on the other side of the quest for independence and freedom. Just look at what the American Indian suffered as the American fight for freedom, independence, and dominance over this land ensued. Unfortunately, in this world of dying for countries, one man's freedom is often another man's enslavement or death. I don't necessarily have a solution for it, but I tend not to like it boiled down to platitudes like the one expressed.

Fred, it wasn't a platitude and I don't see the reason to generalize when something is offered in the specific.  These were the words uttered by Trumpeldor when he lay dying, a comment on if he thought his dying had a meaning.  To veer off to the convenience of Native Americans or the Viet Nam War sounds like chewed up platitudes, so much easier than dealing with the subject presented

Fred, thanks for farther explaining your thoughts, but  as I have answered  you( I have so much to say and it is hard in some sentences....) it was a special event not a generalisation.This story of Trumpeldor was a life altering event in the history of defending the galilee and the  resettling  the country, a long time before the real announcement took place.It was a real event of a battle of a few vs, a lot of arbs that surrounded the settlment of Tel Chai and by fals pretext asked to enter , recieved permission, and started to kill. Donna is right as the pogrom in Kishinev was a turning point that the  Jews understood that they have to leave the antisemitic galut, return and develop the old country( now Israel). In the history of pre country settelments it was one of the known battles that was and I think still is a school lesson about the defenders and how it affected the development later on.

Fantastic, thanks for explanation.

Cheers.

Great place! 

Shalom to you!

Pnina, what a wonderful mood you have captured with this crop!

--Lannie

I like the closer look, Pnina!