'The Universal Children's Game'

These two young boys play Hide and Seek, the universal children's

game, in the station of a Metropolitan (subway) in a major city. Your

ratings, critiques and remarks are invited and most welcome. If you rate

harshly, very critically or just wish to make an observation, please

submit a helpful and constructive comment; please share your

photographic knowledge to help improve my photography. Thanks!

Enjoy! John

Classic.  I like this because I can see both boys, both going in the same direction.  It could be perpetual, going round and round and round.  The angle is nice too because you caught the boy on the right as he peers around the corner with a full face smile.  He seems to be the seeker and the hider is calmly moving along sure to not be found.

Another very astute comment from you:  'Classic'

Thanks!

john

John (Crosley)

wonderful perspective and composition, though i wonder why you've left the leg in the frame at extreme right when it could have been easily cropped... 

Thank you for the very nice compliments.

The essence of 'street' is not to crop except when absolutely necessary, and some refuse to crop at all.  Some of Cartier-Bresson's most major photos have elements in them you might consider 'distracting' but somehow they are so great you just don't see them because for those photos such elements just aren't distracting;  they also remind us the world is not perfect, even for the world's best photographer in this genre. 

In latter days Cartier-Bresson refused to crop at all and did so so sparingly some contend (wrongly)  he never allowed it at all (he fought about it with the editor's of Harper's Bazaar!  A cropped photo appears on the cover of 'Life' Magazine.)

A 'leg' upper right, lets us know that this is not posed or an abstraction - it's part of the 'street ethic', as opposed to studio or landscape.

It also reminds us that these children are in the 'real world' even though they are in their own make believe world; in other words it places the children in context (this is a working Mertro, not a time when it's closed.)

;~))

Thanks for a chance to explain myself and also for the very nice compliments.

john

John (Crosley)

I think the suggestion of a third person in this photo also helps.  I'm drawn to 'threes' in my compositions. 

There are 'three' persons in this photo, not just the two main actors, and three (just barely) support beams, and for me that makes it slightly more complex, giving it depth and adding to its complexity. 

I'm working on making some of my photos a little more complex; not all, but some.

john

John (Crosley)

Very good view

Best regards

Xavier Corcobado

xcorcobado.blogspot.com

thank you for the inputs... the dimensions of this photograph indicated to me that it was cropped... i had noted those of the others in this folder and marked that you were not averse to cropping... hence i asked

i myself am a rabid cropper... i see it as a useful compositional tool given the restrictions imposed on me by situations and my equipment [not in this order of ranking, any order in fact]... the rule i impose on myself is to observe conventional aspect ratios: usually 4:3 or 3:2 or 1:1, sometimes 16:9 etc

at times i myself like to leave such 'teasers' in my composition as is the case here with the partly seen leg... in fact i like it there, it does serve a useful purpose, reminding us that it's perhaps a public place with others around, even without your introductory words... the kids are immersed in their own own game of hide and seek adapted to the locale... the massive pillars affording an opportunity

I went out with my camera(s) one day.

This is absolutely the first scene I saw.

I could have quit right then (but went on to other quite good captures).

Thank you for the feedback.

john

John (Crosley)

Indeed there was minimal cropping, primarily because there just was too much foreground, but some care was kept to keep it within the 2:3 or 4:5 aspect ratio of the traditional 35 mm or other 'street' crops -- apparently I failed at that, and don't know an easy way to achieve those ratios in Photoshop with a capture already made. 

Perhaps I could use direction in that regard. 

That explains the uneven number of pixels from a 2:3 or other standard aspect ratio capture.  Then again, I did not have the proper focal length to get close enough, fast enough to make the capture I wanted, and didn't want to even take one step forward (which would have brought me within the proper area for 'no crop').

Observing all this was a kindly train 'starter' (a uniformed woman who uses a round hand-held sign to tell motormen the doors are closed when it's busy and he can't rely on his left mirror -- the motorman is is on the train's right and uses a mirror when doors open on the right side, but her hand held sign is a better indicator no one's trapped in the doors.  She just was not necessary that hour because of low traffic.

She was touching me (almost unfelt) behind at the base of the back when I took this and others photos, very, very gently, apparently to remind me or to tell me 'no photos', and I showed her the scene, spoke with her a moment (in fractured Russian) then she went on to the boys to stop them too.  But she was a grandmother's age and sooooo gentle about it all, I felt no offense at all, and was in fact touched by her open heart.

She apparently had a job to do, but was sooo kind in doing it.

And there I was out in the middle of the concourse instead of hiding behind a pillar, feed wide apart, camera to eye, in an obvious photographer's stance. 

She probably had little choice, but wished she didn't.

I salute her for handling the situation well with her kindness and a twinkle in her eye.

And about 'no cropping', I'm not a strict adherent, but I do 'mind' cropping.   

I dislike having to recompose in image editing (Photoshop) as that indicates I could do a better job on the street (unless it's a reframe for 'aspect ratio) -- partly so here.

Thanks, rajjat.

john

John (Crosley)

I would definitelly move to one side - this center view add some statical (boring) factor. > to move to right from your standing point will, sort of change the odds, dramatizing a situation thru composition a emotional add - in.

plus - lower position of camera - when I capture children, usually I "go to knee" - as it is emphasis of their world.

BB

Interesting suggestions

I will keep them in mind next time.

This time, absolutely NO TIME to do anything than stand there and take it in, camera to eye.  

Physical limitations prevent my kneeling many days -- not all, or not all parts of some days but I need a new knee or two (and maybe a couple of new hips?)

Note:  these boys almost are one-third the way from either edge of the frame, the left-most boy moreso, then the one on the right, but if you're looking for symmetry, it has some, but then just being 'off' a little I like to think adds 'tension' needed. [this is for those who think the 'so-called 'rule of thirds' is important -- I think it's just another guideline to be used or broken as one sees fit and appropriate]

Agree or disagree?

Thanks for the helpful suggestion; I'll keep them in mind next time I'm shooting (I really do learn from these critiques, especially others' helpful suggestions).

john

John (Crosley)

gladly.

and also - I understand these implicit feelings (for example that "chasing lines") BW authors have. it is strugle between form and context (drama), often harmonizing so nicely.

p.s. I know, that children are very delicate subject to photograph recently

Boris

About lowering to get a child's eye view.

Not for this photo.

This is a photo about nostalgia.

It is an adult looking at a child's world and admiring it for what it is from an adult's perspective.

As such, it should be taken and viewed from an adult's height.

The world has a place for photos taken from child's eye perspective, and I may even be the person (on a proper day) to take that shot, but not this one.

This is strictly for 'remember when we used to do that?' and as a capture that reminds us all of the unversality of our youth . . . . .  often so long gone.

No one 'rule' fits every situation, and next photo you may see me 'breaking' that advice if the situation warrants -- I break all sorts of rules when the situation calls for it.  I'm an equal opportunity opportunist when it comes to photography.

I hope this clarifies my response, your question was helpful to me in articulating my idea about this subject which was more inchoate -- not having had the necessity to place it into words before.

For that I thank you (again).

john

John (Crosley)

I had never heard the term 'chasing lines' before -- is that a photographic or compositional term? (here they are playing a form of 'chase' so that's not facetious).

Form and drama are always something to be reconciled in a photo; and the photo that does so successfully goes a long way to be 'interesting' in my view.  My primary stated goal is to take 'interesting photos'.  I fail a lot, but occasionally I succeed, and sometimes very well.  I regard the above very highly.

In France, the US (especially the Los Angeles area which has a high number of very highly articulate and visible and even provocatively taunting child molesters/pedophiles, just going near a child with a camera can be a subject fraught with danger or cause timidity in the most astute male photographer.

Not quite so in Ukraine where this was taken.

Especially in a place so heavily trafficked as the Metro which generally has trains every three minutes except late night Sundays which may see trains as infrequent as every eight minutes.  And they pack those train cars full -- all six or eight or them, so there's no room for 'funny business' with guards at every entrance, monitoring, signal systems, and often (as here) a 'train starter' sort of conductor who had her hand gently at the small of my back really enjoying the moment and enjoying that I was enjoying it (before she put a stop to it)  (we had a very nice, brief pleasant chat, too).

In my experience, in other cities in Ukraine if parents see you photographing their kids, they are apt to bring them over for more photos, especially if you have pro equipment; every parent wants their child to be a model - even the little kiddies, because that is one way into a higher income level in a land where nearly everybody fancies themselves 'middle class' but in reality only about 15% do by income level compared to the EU.

So, Ukraine can be rather pleasant to photograph in when kids are involved, but I keep every precaution and NEVER approach children, often use a telephoto and NEVER speak to them except when their parents are nearby or my first question will be 'where is momma and/or poppa if they inquire, for I won't answer them -- only Momma or Poppa unless a kindly female stranger intervenes to help.

Gotta 'Be Careful out there on the streets' ('Hill Street Blues' -- Remember?) (paraphrased)

I don't know about the UK, but judging from the attitudes as printed about taking 'details' and photographers having to stand their ground, it sounds like local constables are pretty unfriendly to photographers and photographers on the other hand are often well aware of their rights.  (not so in Ukraine -- no 'rights' exist at all, but there is VERY considerable deference to foreigners and even citizens.

The other day one Militia (plainclothes) just shoved a guy out the door of a Metro train car after putting him into a hammer lock after he got too bothersome to me. 

The militia guy probably was a chief/commander/or high official too, judging from age, demeanor, bearing, and the guy was lucky it was International Day of Women and the militia guy (big and burly, but squat and older) had a bouquet of flowers for his wife/girlfriend/mother and a laptop (which he handed to a nearby passenger before he put the hammerlock on the guy and rammed him into a train door before the train stopped).  He said something into the guy's ear, then gave him a boost out the door, which then shut and the militia guy apologized to ME, and I thanked him profusely.

(the guy deserved it, he was 'testing me' to see if I could be robbed and one huge guy I took refuge next to standing in the crowded Metro coach (six feet four or five and 300 pounds or more) got into a verbal altercation with the interloper, much smaller, who just wouldn't let up.

He got 'shown the door'.  He's lucky he didn't end up in jail/prison, which in Ukraine are pretty infamous.

As to kids, they're part of life.

I photograph life, and that's my main interest in them.

Nobody pays much attention so long as you as photographer appear normal in your photography toward them in Ukraine, so I've NEVER had any issues develop, as my street skills are quite restrained, I am very sensitive to those 'issues' and guide myself accordingly.

If I take a good photo of a child and it's possible, I'll walk directly to poppa or momma and try to show it to them (often to accolades from parents.).

Good conversation starter Boris -- your last thought.

Perhaps it's one reason I like Ukraine for photographing (besides so many thin, very pretty women who seem to pop out of nowhere so frequently).

john

John (Crosley)

The ultimate accolade for a 'street' shot.

Thanks so much.

Best wishes.

john

John (Crosley)

The pain compliance hold used by the hefty, older squat plainclothes militia man against the guy bothering me on the Metro (left from this very station) is actually called an 'elbow lock' which is a variation on a 'hammerlock' which is applied more to the neck and shoulders.  (See comment reply above)

After all those Saturday evenings with my father drinking his tall cans of Schlitz beer, watching Saturday Night Wrestling, contorting himself (mostly unknowingly) to match the wrestlers' painful positions, wincing at their body slams, taking offense at those hidden pieces of razor, knife, glass or other sharp objects, or the irritant thrown in opponents' eyes to blind the opponent before punishing him, them pinning him (often right after the Midget wrestlers tag team), I really should be 'up' on such basics as the difference between an 'elbow lock' and a 'hammer lock'.

I grew up and saw 'Gorgeous George' personally when he was getting his start.  How's that for 'credentials'.

Life's too short; live and learn.  I now know the difference between a hammerlock, an elbow lock and now even an arm bar.

The cop had the guy in an 'elbow lock (and with a lot of poundage in the squat, not so tall but very burly plainclothes cop) who apologized afterward several times to me for the behavior of his fellow countryman (and was thanked by me in return also several times).

Militia in Ukraine generally have a 'bad rap'. with the populace who say 'stay away from them',  but they seldom will elaborate, although the newspapers presently are more clearcut in their criticism . . . . even the President in an interview was pretty candid about them recently.

But in my personal life, generally, as a guy photographing on the street, this is twice (maybe three times) they've saved me from a jackpot (or potential jackpot). 

That's not to mention those 5,000 plainclothes cops who surrounded Dnepropetrovsk where I stayed for a while, while 2 guys were murdering 21 or so people in a little more than three weeks in 'thrill killings'.  

They videotaped their mostly bludgeon killings and then robbed their victims for things such as 'cell phones' -- a most uncharacteristic thing for a Ukrainian.  

One was the son of a prominent attorney in that city of comparatively great wealth.  It seemed to be a 'spur of the moment' thing that just built on itself, and I was somewhere nearby photographing and I, just like the locals,knew nothing of the murders almost everyday; some days there were several.  

There was nothing in newspapers, television, radio, etc., as 5,000 detectives combed the area.  Even now, few Ukrainians know about it outside of Dnepropetrovsk even after a very public trial.  (See Wickipedia, 'Dnepropetrovsk Massacre' for their version, then compare my posting dates of photos from Dnepropetrovsk with the dates of the murders!!!  Gads!!!  There but for the grace of God! 

That makes three mass murders I have encountered in my life outside my long-ago former life as an attorney.

One was the so-called Washington Heights rapist (NYC) who raped and stepped to death old women in elevators, and was sent for life to Attica, where I suppose he remains.

A year or two ago in LA, in a fast food restaurant I had a long, strange talk with the guy who once worked for workers' compensation, and months later, I think this same guy was picked up for serial killings based on a random DNA test of ex-con sex offenders.

The two very young men in Ukraine, who had to have known of me, since I was a fixture in that town at that time, in its center and always carrying very expensive cameras, often late at night, preyed on 'opportunist victims' (sleeping, drunk, not aware, not vigilant).  I am always vigilant and NEVER DRINK, especially while photographing or carrying a camera.

Ukrainians generally do not 'get out of line' like the guy who got put in an 'elbow lock' by the burly cop then literally shoved out the door at the next stop.

The 'militia' are feared and tough, and I think that's one reason; also prisons were found by the EU to be not very humane either -- good reasons for staying out of trouble.  Also ever present girlfriends offer 'enticements' to get their man to marry them, and it does not involve fighting in public or breaking the law -- if he gets outta hand, she'll take care of him (she is young (16 to 21) and probably wants almost as soon as she can to have his kids (true, not sexist but observable and documentable fact).

I've NEVER seen anybody mouth off to a militia man (they often don't use handcuffs even for those most unruly -- of the very few arrests I've seen -- mostly for drunk and disorderly -- such as public fighting while drunk --  first a militia whispers in the man's ear some 'instructions then one militia man walks in front, one walks in back of the guy being arrested, and they all march away in lockstep.  No handcuffs.  Sometimes the militia appear not to be armed.  God help anybody who disobeys their orders however, and the populace does not appear openly hostile to them.  It's 'live and let live' and I don't ask about the dark secrets that underly that uneasy truce.

It's unthinkable anybody would try to escape or hit a militia man.

Kids like this play and play without apparent fear, (though there are 'milk carton type photos posted certain places so the bad guys are in Ukraine too, doing their nasty work, one supposes, and the depictions can't all be runaways.

 I've known a few runaways, fed a few -- one whose much older brother beat up on him every time he went to bed at his home at grandmother's (momma and poppa had died and grandma was very aged).

Life is not a bed of roses with little if any social safety net.

Those beggars I see and often photograph and the stall/bazaar sellers are part of the social welfare system:  a cup and a place at a Metro entrance ore just street side. 

Pensions are being eaten away by inflation at 9% a year, and that has been going on for a long time (I don't' know when, if ever, pensions were raised for the flower of the former People's proletariat whose state abandoned them because it simply could not function -- it just fell apart, and pensions, which once were generous have eroded to about $80-90 a month, I am informed.  No wonder grandmothers beg or sell on the street.

But it makes a lively street life for the photographer, and that's part of what makes it a great place for me.

There are no welfare checks:  a white cup and a place on the street or a Metro entrance, although for the truly lame or very aged, people can be pretty generous. 

If someone suffers a broken bone or a bad back, that beggar might be them.

I try to be generous too, but I hide my identity (I sneak up from behind, drop my money into hands, then turn and walk away with my face not visible, or I give through an intermediary and don't show myself . . . . I don't want people mugging for money.  My photos are authentic, and I don't want to spoil that (besides I seldom photograph those who receive my charity).

john

John (Crosley)

It was reported during the French African immigrant riots two or three years ago when France's African immigrants were protesting joblessness, that the average legal immigrant in France got a stipend of 1,440 Euros a month for living -- compare that to the widow in Ukraine who gets $80 to $90 a month in a pension, IF she has a pension book.  That 1440 Euros = about $2,000 a month, US dollars, but then living in France is expensive -- everything is expensive, though there are 'discount stores'.

Realistic moment, although not very suitable site for the game!

The magic of childhood I think is the ability to turn any surrounding into a playground to have fun in.

See from earlier times re:  unsuitabillity and fun: 

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2108678

The point is that to a child intent on having fun, little is unsuitable.

I am sure you didn't expect such a response; I'm a great believer in the intuition of kids to be kids!

Respectfully and with thanks.

Best wishes!

john

John (Crosley)

Yes, I agree that children everywhere will find a place to play. But here the children play in a subway station and it can be dangerous

If these two children were from a far-off village and did not know of the Metro and its speed and power, then the danger would be enormous; one could easily get killed.

I suspect these boys have ridden the Metro all their lives; they seemed familiar with it and therefore more aware of it and consequently how to avoid its dangers.

I do agree it can be very dangerous, and as I wrote above the woman platform 'conductor' with her round signal for door closing in one hand, had the other hand on the 'small' of my back (lower back) as I photographed, but ever so gently so I only minimally became aware she was touching me, and then when I was aware of her hand and her presence and after speaking to her briefly, she went to these boys and did stop them.

You can breathe comfortably; these boys were stopped, did not get hurt and were told not to do it again!

And all with the stern tone of a mother/grandmother (babushka), but with her inner smiles, as seeing this made the woman (and me) very happy.

I hope this photo conveys those brief moments of joy that are a treasure of childhood when all else is lost in the excitement of the moment.

Best to you Svetlana.

john

John (Crosley)