alt.street 'Wintry Scene'

This is a wintry scene in a very large, once-closed Eastern European

City, some while ago. (I posted a cropped version in B&W, but since

have grown to like this version somewhat better, although the 'theme'

that caused it to be posted in B&W is somewhat less noticeable). Your

ratings, critiques, and remarks are invited and most welcome. If you

rate harshly, very critically, or just wish to submit an observation,

pleaese submit a helpful and constructive comment; thank you in

advance for sharing your photographic knowledge to help improve my

photography. Enjoy! John

The more I have looked at the B&W cropped version, which emphasized a 'theme', the more I have appreciated this uncropped version, here in color, but also available in B&W, which emphasizes more the comings and goings of everyday street life in one major city in Eastern Europe.  (You can still find the cropped version in my 'B&W, Then to Now' folder, quite a ways down. 

In the prior, much-cropped version, I made this somewhat 'rich in detail' scene quite a bit simpler, to emphasize a theme of  'repetition' which is present, but this version, while also revealing that theme, does not make it prominent -- perhaps you can't even recognize the repetition without referring to the other photo, its captioning and comments?

Over time, I have come to think of the two views of this photo as emphasizing the differences that can be obtained through tighter cropping or not; and I am often tempted to crop very tightly.

Sometimes, it is not called for, and if you look at the other version (not linked on purpose), you may wish to tell me which you prefer.

This was taken with a very large, but earlier professional Nikon DSLR, and at a fairly low ISO, and I now remember, that despite high ISO 'noise' issues, that this particular camera was preferred by studio photographers I met for its color renditions when shot with adequate light at reasonable outdoor ISO.

However, you rate, I'd appreciate your comments, and they needn't be positive.

I have my own feelings about this photo, but I'd like to hear yours, as I'm preparing a 'presentation' of the 'best of the best', and I'd like to keep it varied.  Any good faith and on point discussion of merits/demerits is much appreciated.

john

John (Crosley)

Among other things, this is a photo that features 'V' figures, inverted.

Look carefully at the photo and you'll see the the 'V' figures, throughout the centermost portion of the photo, through what you may perceive as 'emptiness' in the frame.

In reality the car and the walkers, right, frame the 'V's in the center of this photo.

The first 'V' is the snow-covered inverted 'V' sign, left,

Next, in black (instead of snow white) is the walking man, with his open legs forming an inverted 'V'.

Next, is another snow-covered sign, also a white inverted 'V'.

Above that is an advertising sign with two different sorts of legs (two sexes?) both in black, forming a 'V'.

Finally, the woman has one or two 'V' figures as she shovels.

One may be the 'V' between her right foot (as she views it) and the shovel, or simply the more closed 'V'between her two feet.

It was those 'V" figures, minus the left-most inverted 'V' sign covered by snow that the photo was cropped to show in Black in White.

This is the full photo.

To my mind, there is more richness in this photo than some walkers, a woman shoveling snow, and a parked car with a man walking in the distance.

I see it as very rich in detail.

Did you?

Do you now?

john

John (Crosley)

Of course, this work is not for women's hands, but for special equipment.

You probably don't know how many Western women, including Americans especially, will revile at your statement that there is special work not suited for women.

You have a more Ukrainian view; women have special properties and attributes.

Women's liberationists in the United States claim there is no such thing a man's work and women's work. In fact, women work as police and firemen, as well as combat soldiers (including Marines) in the United States.

There may be special equipment, but in Dnepropetrovsk, several years ago, it was not common at all.

I think your comment succinctly revealed a major difference between Ukrainian woman and more Western ('liberated') women.

I say 'vive la difference', but still support the right of women to toil at whatever work they desire.

See if that 'fits' with you, or perhaps you are well aware of the US/Ukrainian discrepancy between women's attitudes toward the workplace.

;~))

My best to you.

john

John (Crosley)

Very long ago while in University (Columbia College, Columbia University, New York) in summers I'd return to Oregon on the West Coast of America where I was born, to work summers.  Two summers I worked in a supermarket there.  [Karl Marx and Obama both went to Columbia]

There was a union and special work rules and special pay rules.

Men were always classfied as 'heavy duty clerks' and they could get the highest salary, no matter if they were lifting heavy things or not -- the point is that they were thought to be able to lift heavy things and always paid more.

Women were always classified 'light duty clerks' even if they wrestled with boxes, stocking shelves.  Have you ever seen a Samoan woman, over 1.85 meters tall, and bigger, almost, than boxer Klichko?  There now are many such woman in Hawaii and in West Coast America and they're huge - far bigger than me, and far bigger than many American rules football players (it's genetics).  Under those old union rules they'd be called 'light duty clerks, though one such woman could easily lift me (and I'm big) with one arm.

Many women from Samoa are of such strength and same with some native Hawaiian and other South Pacific and Central Pacific natives.  The classifications were really a means to pay women less, regardless of what work they did, and to allow men to dominate women.

Now women can be firemen (firepersons).  They must pass extremely dfficult strength tests which few can pass, but if so their pay is the same as anybody else's.

Same with police officers, and women now no longer have to be so tall (high).

 Rules have been changed so woman can work at almost anything in the USA.

In Ukraine (and neighboring Russia) women can do anything from doctor and lawyer (jurist) even to premier (Tymoshenko), but in the end, they must raise children too, for a double burden.

No woman in Russia or Ukraine is considered a real woman unless she gets married early and has kids I am told. That is my extensive experience, though I am sure there are exceptions.  Did I learn correctly?

Women work often twice as hard as men, two jobs (work and at home) then are expected by husbands to get the men their beer as the men watch football on the weekends and demand a beer to relax.

The woman is expected to get that bottle of beer for her man, no matter how tired she is.

Men dominate Ukrainian society, and Russian too, in my experience, but there are exceptions, of course, as with any generalization.

She is entitled to any job, but she is looked down on if she does not also mother children at an early age, and if she's grandmother, cry to her daughter when her daughter is about 20 or 21, 'where are my grandchildren?' to help push her daughter to get married young.

Am I right?

You are an expert on this society; I am a casual observer, and need to be tutored.  It seems that there are a great number of very smart women, yet mostly the men get the advantages.

Can you help me understand if this is true?

Is this slavic culture?

Is it right?

Will it be this way in 20 years in your opinion?

Inquiring mind wants to know, Svetlana and you're an expert.

Please help me understand; my culture looked down on women for many decades or even centuries but now they have new status.

Do I correctly understand women's status in Ukraine, or can you correct my understanding?

Thanks, Svetlana,

john

john (Crosley)

Unfortunately, I can not answer your competently. There are many aspects of this issue.

 My congratulations and best wishes for a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Svetlana.

I mostly understood that you could not or would not, but wanted to make this question, and if it's rhetorical, that's fine.

Thank you for good wishes;  good wishes also for New Year and Russian Christmas.

john

John (Crosley)