'At The Train Station'

This is the scene a while ago at the train station at

Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine -- which like train stations almost all over

Europe, attracts transients and n'er do wells as well as serious

travelers. Your ratings, critiques, and remarks are invited and

most welcome. If you rate harshly or very critically or wish to make

an observation, please submit a helpful and constructive

comment; thank you for sharing your photographic knowledge to

help improve my photography. Enjoy! John

Hi John,

Wonderful image in the social documentary style. Reminding me of the great photo documentarists of the past. And telling whole stories of the fate of individuals.

All the best  

Over half of my most highly received recent postings have been gleaned from just a few downloads from two and three years ago (chosen at random) as I look and for the first time have learned how to review my old downloads.

I looked at this and understood immediately why Garry Wingrand liked to put his captures 'on ice' for years at times while he learned to see them afresh and unaffected by recent shooting.

In my archives in Photoshop browser, this just jumped out at me, especially her expression.  This is a good example of 'selective' focus and isolating one's subject by choosing a focus point and putting it on her . . . . and then surreptitiously  (from a distance -- 200 mm on a DX sensor = 300 mm FX) occasionally pointing my camera her (and their) direction, after they'd seen me from the front and assumed I 'went away' or was 'no threat' and dismissed me.

And with a capture like this, I never know what reaction I'll get on Photo.net.  Some I think are wonderful get no support or views; others I don't think so much of sometimes get a wonderful viewership and good critiques as well. (views and good critiques do not always go together).

You have shown great discernment in deconstructing my work this a.m. (where I am), and also great (rare for a photographer) writing ability.

Thanks for all the attention and feedback help.

john

John (Crosley)

Wow, great shot. Am only a novice, and I am always interested to see what others write out these types of shots! For me, her expression is great...looking down suggesting sadness, or simply avoidance; also her wrinkles and wart really add interest and contrast in her grey hair too. The texture of her skin is highlighted for me with that of the hat. The only thing I would like to change is the placement of the lady at the back...for me i think that if she were more "in line" with the other two it could be improved. Or, I am wondering even if you cropped some of her head out to focus the eye more on the lady in the middle?? Great shot tho... Regards

Your analysis of the figures here is first-rate.  You accurately describe the attributes of the members of this trio, especially the 'focus' of this construction (note I call it a 'construction' as opposed to just a 'capture').  I'll get to that later.

Yes, even the wart is important, and maybe it's a special thing; women of age in Ukraine and Russia do not subscribe to traditional Western ideals with regard to warts. 

I married a fabulously beautiful (and smart) young Russian woman, with a Russian Polish momma and a very, very handsome father, a physician.

Well, mom (her mother) had a huge wart on her nose.  Nobody ever remarked on it, and to my mind in the heart of Russia nobody even seemed to care - her husband loved her, and although she did not necessarily carry her age well HE did, fabulously well.

She was a good wife to him, and momma and grandma to her daughter and grandchildren (and still is) I hear.  (Her daughter, my bride, got brain cancer at age 29, and blamed me for 'causing' it, and we parted . . . .  We married at the start of the decade and our marriage was only three months' long but we had been living together three years in Russia and Thailand prior to the discovery of severe, and usually fatal brain cancer.

So, traditional ideals of beauty among the aged in former Russia/Soviet Union/Ukraine are somewhat breached when it comes to presence of a facial wart . . . . even in the case of my former mother-in-law, whose husband easily could have removed that wart on his wife's face if he found it offensive.

Now with regard to your cropping advice, I invite you to find my presentation on 'Threes' and review it.  It now quite old and not commented on for maybe four or more years, but shows a tendency of me to try to choose 'threes' frequently because I discovered threes happen to do several things.

If you take a line through three figures, you may define a triangle, a most inviting and stable geometric structure  but visually most dynamic.

It is that dynamism that supports using 'three' and not cropping any one of them. 

Be aware of geometric shapes within your constructions (you are in fact constructing a photo like this, unless you just see it, stop and take a photo then wander off without moving around it and examining the situation.

I moved around to get the best view, with the most interesting facial expression on the old woman.

While I might have tried for better expressions on the out of focus two companions, I wanted the old woman to have the best, most interesting expression possible together with good construction.  There's that word again; I don't use it often.

A corollary word is composition -- perhaps you'll like that better.

Besides threes maybe or possibly defining the corners of a triangle, they also can form the rough outline of a very interesting figure -- the 'C' figure.

Second to the 'S' figure which draws an eye into a photo, as the 'eye' follows the 'S' into the photo, the 'C' is a similar construct, just more simple. 

The eye tends to start with the front of the 'C' construct, then follow it from one end to another.

Where the figures are arranged a little from front to back, the eye tends to start or pass the front figure and follow the 'C' construct or composition through the most interesting figure (the old woman) then to the remaining figure. 

The eye will stop on its journey at the most interesting figure of the group in a 'C' figure, and it will essentially be 'trapped'.

To destroy the 'threes' of the figure will help destroy the 'C' composition.  There is both a triangle here defined from looking at this photo from the front, then also as one's eye follows the figures into the composition.

To do any cropping here would be absolutely forbidden for me.

I don't want a cut off head or part of a body, etc., or even to leave extra space around the figures that is not symmetrical, for that will break the eye's journey through the photo.

A 'stuck' eye?

Yes, of course.

It's very valuable; one sign of a good to great photo is the ability of the photo to draw in the the viewer's eye and keep it there.

That's the sign of a successful photo or at least a successful composition -- one that traps the viewer or put more gracefully 'engages' the viewer, and invites the viewers' eyes to linger.

That's why I oppose cropping at all. 

There is here a contrast between 'the in focus figure' and the two more out of focus figures, so the eye also is drawn to the aged woman 'in focus'  - the magic of 'selective focus'.

So, I accept part of your analysis, but for another part, urge you to think carefully before 'cropping' a photo such as this . . . . where it is a 'construct' or 'composition' that involves 'three visual devices:  1.  The use of threes; 2.  The 'C' curve; and 3. the use of selective focus on the major figure.

I wouldn't tamper with it, but if you think you can improve, copy it, crop it and post a copy of your crop here and then see if it's better.

Yours indeed may be better, because 'rules' are meant to be broken or there may be many other 'rules' that are less evident or basic than the ones I write about. I don't have a monopoly on elements of good composition.

Good observation, good question, and I hope you take my answer(s) to heart.

I did this 'on-the-fly' without outlining - just fingers to keyboard.

I don't do this precisely BEFORE I take photo, I just use my knowledge (say of my 'threes' presentation),  which now is innate, and it applies itself.

The more you look, the more you understand, the more you analyze, the more your photography will advance with depth and quickly too.

That's my point of view and how I got there. (I hadn't planned on doing that for this photo, but I think it may help you understand why I didn't crop the figure at all, and why I'd advise you to think carefully about any proposed crops to such a composition/construction.

Thanks for contributing.

john

John (Crosley)

This a very nice study of Waiting in silence. Three expression tells what going on in their minds anticipation, despair and submission. Crop is perfect and focus in middle person get the eye. Well done, Regards, ifti

Once again, a viewer (you) has greatly added to understanding of a photo of mine and its power:  anticipation, despair and waiting.

I hadn't thought of that.

How perfect for you to notice.

I cropped this slightly, especially left to the jacket where it intersects the corner, trimming a little white space for an 'aspect ratio' crop - the aspect ratio is changed by doing so, because it was 'not quite right' with a 2:3 crop of the 35 mm camera frame and this is more like one would find in an 8 x 10 print.

Sometimes aspect ratios of the 35 mm frame just are not quite right so one must crop (I crop reluctantly, but did so correctly here, as you noted with your observation about the framing).

Congratulations on adding a hitherto unseen (unrecognized) and therefore uncommented on dimension to this photo.

Once again a member's astute comments teaches me about my own photo!

john

John (Crosley)

Pardon please the misquote above:  'anticipation, despair and submission' (not as misquoted).

My error.  

New editing closure prevented me cleanly just altering my text to make it 'read' properly and necessitated this additional comment.

john

John (Crosley)

Great tones, great composition, great subject!  Well done.

Thank you once each for your three stated compliments.

I am heartened, as raters and commenters didn't seem to 'see' this photo at first, yet I thought highly of it.

In the end, very often the raters and commenters 'get it' or sometimes I just must revisit my own judgment about popularity, which is what rates measure and also about quality, which is what comments here address.

Unlike those photographers who (like those on FLICKR who get one line at most compliments and no real criticism), I get lots of real, genuine criticism and critiquing.

I am absolutely thankful for that; it keeps me on this service - a decision I revisit from time to time, but I keep believing I have made the best choice (there is another place also where I posted 'different photos' (for the most part) and are there unrated and not very often commented on, 'in depth' at least.

john

John (Crosley)