Bent Elbows

Two Bent Elbows (or even three) plus the straight line of the woman

photographer's two arms completed by the man's head and alcohol

bottle in a bag, define this photo for me, taken very recently in a fast

food restaurant in Kyiv, Ukraine. Do you agree, or do you have a

different viewpoint? Your ratings and critiques are invited and most

welcome. If you rate harshly, critically or wish to make a remark or

observation, please submit a helpful and constructive comment; please

share your photographic knowledge to help improve my photography.

Thanks! Enjoy! John

The lowest ratings this year, but after a half day over 100 views?

 

Is that because this is a terrible photo or 'uninteresting'?

 

I don't think so, or if you do, I beg to differ.

 

It's pretty carefully composed, even if you don't like that one of those depicted is drinking and it has no 'central subject' (such as a 'portrait)' as the focus.

Instead it is a photo of 'action frozen'.

 

Look at the upper left and the lower right: both triangles and identical (but no cropping).

 

Look at the number of triangles within this photo (including those corners) for 'repetition' or 'mirroring'.

 

Look at the 'line' drawn from the woman photographer's arm through her other arm, continued through the bottle in a bag of the drinker, lower right.

 

It's nearly a continuous line -- a major strength, in my view, and a major reason, I think that people are clicking on this photo even if no one sees fit to comment (none to this instance) or to rate more than modestly, and mostly low.

 

Those are elements of design, even if not recognized by viewers (or those who critique and rate higher.)

 

And, this is a photo, I think, that does what most don't: It engages.

 

You probably are interested in this photo, even if you reject these people or their actions or it is not completely self-explanatory.

 

I suspect you are interested in how this came to be (with the accent of the word 'Enjoy' on the wall and the photo of the smiling girl, background upper right).

 

I suspect that's the the reason this has more clicks than any photo I've posted in the last week or so (in just a few hours), even one of my 'very best' -- a portrait of a guy with criss-crossed hands and an 'eye' with great 'design' and a terrific story.

 

I think the reason is that inherently it's 'interestingly' even if somewhat 'bizarre'.

 

'Bizarre' is fine with me, and if that means a string of 3/3 ratings, so be it; I'd have lots of photos like this if I could.

 

I can take lots of ordinary photos and they'd be 'interesting enough', but to me this is 'extraordinarily interesting and intriguing'.

 

It is not a heavily photoshopped landscape, and almost none of my photos is that, though I can easily take those - the taking of those just is not so interesting to me, and there are so many of them on this site.

 

How many of these are there on this site - and thus how 'original' or 'novel' at least, is this photo?

 

I stand by it.

 

I like it greatly.

 

Raters may think it stinks, but people are clicking on it.

 

Are they clicking on it to view how 'bad' it is?

 

I think not.

 

In a way, 'views' are a form of rating, also.

 

'Acceptance' by Photo.net viewers, consists for me, of three different parts:

 

1. Ratings (traditional measure).

 

2. Comments/critiques

 

3. Views.

 

My most highly-viewed photo is approaching 200,000 views. Its rates are mixed, with real low rates for 'aesthetics' (and deservedly so).

 

It's slightly blurry,.and I almost didn't post it in favor of a less complex photo that didn't have the 'story' but was in full, sharp focus. It's also 'hidden' in a poorly-viewed folder, never intended to have 'high views' but it has endured and prospered despite being hidden.

 

I made a good choice over the other photo. It tells a 'great, eye-catching story'.

 

It has one-third more viewers at least more than even my best and most historic photos including at least one which may end up in museums (Berkeley, People's Park Free Speech Protest, Rifle with Bayonet).

 

'High Views' sends a message too.

 

It is the sort of 'guilty pleasures' vote.

 

It's the 'I-don't-like-it-photographically-so-much-and-I-won't-rate-it-highly-but-I-can't-help-but-look-at-it' photo.

 

Maybe such photos should be in a category by themselves.

 

Unratable but very successful in an unconventional way.

 

I'd take a whole portfolio of such photos together with all the low rates that go with 'em.

 

Because they're 'interesting' and not boring.

 

And people won't be bored to tears viewing my photos.

 

John (Crosley)

Hello John!

I did translate the comment using Google translate.

I do not know who and why put 3 / 3 for the photo.

I am interested to see this picture as moment of the life of my city.

But I am always looking at the pictures do not line and triangles, and some thought.

And if I see this idea and this idea is interesting to me - then I was interesting and shot.

 

Svetlana.

Google translate did not do a great job of translating your remark above, but I understand enough to thank you so much for reading the entire comment I made above.

 

That in itself is quite a job, since I sometimes write very much. I run a serious risk of boring people, but NOT EVERYONE.

 

A select few seem always to understand me and what I am doing - and they are not sycophants, either, but genuine people, almost always serious photographers or students of human nature who do care about things like composition, action, dynamics (when important to the photo), surrealism, mystery (at times) and other things like contrast, tones, etc.

 

Not every photo has all of these elements, and certainly this photo does not have all.

 

But what this photo does have is it is INTERESTING -- very interesting.

 

This was taken two nights (less than 48 hours) ago in YOUR CITY and you recognize it for a TRUE MOMENT OF STREET LIFE IN YOUR CITY (even if inside a 'fast food' restaurant, for 'street' does not always have to be on the 'street' (ulitsa, prospekt, etc.)

 

Customers in the world's largest 'fast food restaurant' chain in YOUR CITY sometimes sneak in with their alcohol bottle in a paper bag (paket), and just everything about this photo is so UKRAINE -- in big letters, too (Capital letters in English).

 

I took many photos that night - 16 gigabytes worth or nearly as many, and there were many interesting and maybe wonderful photos to someone who has interest in good photography, but for 'street' with 'interest', 'mystery' and maybe elements of 'surrealism' this photo has a surfeit of fokusnik, in my mind. (fokusnik = magic in Russian) (surfeit = full or very full to overflowing in simpler English)

 

Svetlana, when I please you with a photo of your own city, then I have struck gold as far as I am concerned.

 

I notice from using the Ukraine language service of Google, that I have twice as many listings in the first two pages of the Google.com Ukrainian/Russian language edition as I do in English language Google.

 

And mysteriously next to my name in search is a number - 771,000+ -- which has some serious meaning which I am sure should be of interest to me, but I cannot comprehend just how.

 

I think it's the number of times my name/photos were requested in Google.com, but in what period? A lifetime, a year, a month or what? And for what? Me specifically, all John Crosleys (with my spelling), as it does not appear under other spellings and so forth? And where? The world, Ukraine or where precisely?

 

Who knows, because on the English language site, no numbers at all appear near my name when searching for John Crosley or any other name - it's a mystery (anyone who can explain it is invited to do so, please).

 

Ukrainians recognize that my photos of their homeland are truthful and seriously done (even when full of fun,as this one), and most Ukrainians respond well, which is one reason I like to photograph in Ukraine - the nice reception I so often get, with wonderful, curious, interested and mostly warm people, often astonished by my gear, and maybe thinking either I am a freak (with two, sometimes three photoapparat) until I let them see my photos, a correspondent, or shortly before this was taken, another pair of men had a laptop and spent twenty minutes reviewing my Photo.net portfolio (just at the next table) with their laptop and wi-fi after I explained I was a serious hobbyist.

 

They then handed me their card, and I think from that I may be attending at their invitation a small convention of TWINS -- not only TWINS, but twin young women, and I think not only are they TWIN YOUNG WOMEN, but TWIN YOUNG WOMEN MODELS, which may be held later which they are arranging for the models as an 'event'.

 

Lisette Model, (who documented twins) look out! (of course, she's dead, but I can walk into a fast food restaurant and maybe walk out with an invitation to a very small,. exclusive, convening of TWIN MODELS!

 

I gotta be lucky or blessed as a photographer - think of the potential for serious 'street', portraiture, and even future work, since twins are so rarely seen, and apparently these are 'identical twins' (not fraternal) -- and 'identical' make the best subjects.

 

I invite the two men I met to contact me again . . . I remain interested.

 

Very.

 

And for very serious, legitimate photographic reasons, as 'twins' are sometimes a photographic gold mine . . . for the serious photographer . . . . .

 

Svetlana, it is an interesting life being in and around your city with photoapparat (camera(s)), and especially with large, professional looking photoapparat since so few people in your country (or America for that matter) ever see such equipment in in person in their lives.

 

Yet, at the same time, I know how to walk and have my equipment remain undetected . . . while I take my photos . . . when I must . . . or to take my photos nearby people who are unaware they're being photographed even though they know I'm nearby and photographing, because they can't imagine I'm photographing them.

 

;~))))

 

I'm having a very good time . . . . . for an old guy, with a very young heart who is learning more and more to enjoy the people I meet, in part because of the two or more photoapparat I carry partly because of (1) their reaction to it and (2) the wonderful photos I get, often without people being aware either of the presence of the photoapparat, or of me, and perhaps thinking that I'm just not interested in photographing them.

 

Of course, here above, they were interesting in photographing me (and my equipment), (but not the guy with the bottle - he's a serious drinker, for sure -- a true Ukrainian moschina *man* from a long tradition of drinkers in this nation of often heavy drinkers in the Russian/Slav tradition.

 

My best to you Svetlana, and thanks for having the courage to be the lone commenter. Yours was a heartwarming comment, and viewed as entirely truthful and observant, offered without request for favor.

 

But Svetlana, I do this one thing that does return your interest, as I think I have informed you; I try to reveal to you your city through my eyes, in perhaps new and interesting ways that may have passed you by in your everyday life.

 

That is sometimes my blessing. And my 'gift' to you (and your fellow Ukrainians).

 

Which I am happy to share with you (all).

 

Any time.

 

john

 

John (Crosley)

John, I like that one.

It's kind of two shots in one - he enjoys the bottle in the paper while she enjoys shooting your 'little something' ? ;-)

 

There seams to be a part of humour and also of tragedy.

In that sense it is a real Black & White shot.

 

Congratulations!

Ciao Axel

 

John, I didn't read all the remarks, but my comment is that I like this image because it tells a heck of a story. I don't understand much about that culture, but I imagine it's depressing to be drinking from a paper bag at a fast food restaurant - anywhere. The BW tones give it a seedy atmosphere and the incongruity of the photographer makes the scene more interesting. I like that it's an obvious quick click. Great job.

I had never been ashamed of what you call my 'little something' until your writing, but maybe now I must. It seems she is using a long lens, or perhaps a long macro lens . . . . . ;~))

 

I hadn't considered that; I just was looking at the brand Pentax and considering that they made wonderful cameras and lenses, and also the glut of stories in 2009 about possible bankruptcy and wondering if it ever occurred (no word on google.com but also haven't seen a 'sale' of Pentax cameras (now Hoya Pentax) in ever so long.) They long were an innovator and made wonderful cameras, and here my 'little something' may require a long, and/or macro lens from super close range for a woman just to see it.

 

How embarrassing.

 

Meanwhile, her companion is caught hoisting one [of what,I didn't ask or peer into the paper bag (paket)].

 

In actuality, that particular evening I had three huge Nikons around my neck, one more than normal and lately with the super high ISO sensitivity, I've been using the 24-120 VR for tele-wide work and boosting the sensitivity to get full-frame captures of pretty good quality. That lens may not have been good enough in general for a reduced size sensor, but it was built for a full-size sensor and does OK, and the VR and the zoom range make it a pretty good knockabout lens for after dark shooting in tunnels, Metros, stores, etc., while it's been pretty ***da*n cold outside.

 

I had set out with a companion holding a third camera, that with a 70-200 f 2.8 lens, and my companion left in a different direction, and left the camera/lens with me, so there I was with a camera with wide/superwide zoom, the 24-120 zoom and finally the long and very big 'little something' that she's trying to photograph.

 

Hah!

 

All of them in fact.

 

I hadn't set out to have three cameras, but it wasn't worth returning to safety to drop off a camera, and I just toughed it out, but looked something like a walking camera geek/freak show, but there was no capture that was not within my capability given the lighting, if it could be captured at all under 'street' circumstances.

 

Damn heavy all of that, and you can bet I won't be doing that again soon.

 

You are right, except instead of a 'little something' she is photographing the huge major general of all - my 'big superstar something' hanging down.

 

It's big, and huge and round and bound to attract attention.

 

It gathers attention just as well as it gathers light under dim circumstances.;~))

 

Of course, you can argue I was rather 'dim' to be caught thusly, but then I'd have to agree, - sort of like being caught with one's 'pants down' (so to speak).

 

That huge, heavy black tube, has caught a lot of attention over its lifetime, and garnered me plenty of looks from guys as well as babes - it's an equal opportunity attractant in this modern age, but I'm old fashioned I guess. I prefer younger, prettier equipment, and try to keep up with the latest outfits.

 

Especially with those two other things hanging down next to what she's photographing.

 

The wide and the wide-tele zoom.

 

And I've grown so used to such attention, that I pay 'no never mind' even when a young woman, as here, wants to focus in on it; it's a usual sort of thing, in my life.

 

I lead an interesting life.

 

And I can follow your string of entendres far into the ether, if I choose, but now I'll stop.

 

With a smile, and remind myself that the Administration has long admonished viewers that this is an 'adults only' site and take solace in that.

 

My 70-200 f 2.8 has a twin in case it should ever go in for service.

 

Sort of like a lizard growing a new tail. Take away my 70-200 f 2.8 (my lifeblood) and I'll put a new one on my camera right away.

 

But with the new high sensitivity,full-frame sensor,the 70-200 can play second fiddle when I boost ISO to the stratosphere, and use a lesser aperture zoom for night/street shooting in ultra low light, where 'image quality' is not paramount.

 

Best to you, Axel. It's been nice to share entendres with you.

 

;~))

 

john

 

John (Crosley)

They're for 'extra credit' in case your grades (marks) are lagging.

 

That's what American teachers allow American pupils to do (or did last I heard).

 

If the pupils don't do well on an examination or several but may need high marks to get into a particular university from high school,say, the teachers assign 'extra work' for 'extra credit' used not only for education but more frequently to 'boost grades,so someone with a perfect A average (4.0) actually can get higher than perfect 4.0 marks, I suppose if the student also does 'extra credit'.

 

That may account for how some University of California entering students have higher than perfect marks (if measured as A = 4.0 and no A+ marks on examinations . . . but extra credit allowed.)

 

But this is only supposition.

 

I long have given 'extra credit' to your remarks, as they're almost always 'right on the mark'.

 

I like this one very much too, and this morning it sat at about 3.5/3.5 on the rates, and not one comment but approaching 100 views, while really good photos from nine days ago in my main folder (due to the Olympics I think) couldn't muster 100 views at all.

 

Thus, I wrote about 'guilty pleasure, and since Kyiv resident Svetlana Korolyova chimed in positively, the comments have become steady, and rate have begun to increase greatly (I haven't even looked at yours; I'm just happy to have your 'mark of approval' in writing . . . )

 

Thank you so much for stopping by.

 

Actually, this is a little un-Kyiv-like compared to the rest of Ukraine; much of the rest has drinking as a blood sport . . . especially for youths in hot summer nights gathering in public plazas (their mostly extremely attractive women, looking to marry young and have babies to show momma by age 21-22, help keep all that testosterone from getting too aggressive when mixed with all that alcohol.

 

For Kyiv, don't draw any real conclusions, it's much more 'European' than any other part of Ukraine (except perhaps L'vov, in the West near Poland which is a historic city, but really not very rich at all . . . . and often was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire or allied with the Poles in times past.)

 

Best to you Liz.

 

Thanks.

 

Kyiv actually is a pretty livable city; not up to German standards by any means, except possibly better than older 'Eastern Germany' standards.

 

But now that's all changed; Kyiv long has been a trade/cultural center and its center is really lovely (for a center designed by Josef Stalin's prized architects.) I rather like it, really, and so do most Kyiv residents, for it's full of them any warm spring/summer/fall night.

 

john

 

John (Crosley)