'The Americans: As We Are' (Semi-rural Illinois)

The caption describes the place, the writing on this young man's chest

describes his occupation, and his look describes what he does; he's a

donut salesman, presumably pretty well suited for his job, in shop

inside a large, big name discount store near a major freeway in semi-

rural Illinois, but within driving distance of millions of people. It is

obvious that this is not a photo depicting great 'beauty', nor is

it 'beautiful', so before rating, please consider that 'aesthetics

sometimes means 'impact', 'social commentary (if well made) and

attributes other than strict 'beauty'. Your ratings, critiques, and

observations are invited and most welcome. If you rate harshly, very

critically, or wish to make a remark, please submit a helpful and

constructive comment; please share your photographic knowledge to

help improve my photography. Thanks! Enjoy! John

A poster child for Michelle Obama's anti-obesity campaign...

 

I think you captured the setting well.

I was looking through some old captures, just picking out photos that didn't strike me at first, and it's just amazing how many, many, many I have that appeal to this or that sensibility.

 

Not all are wonderful, but then a trip through galleries worldwide reveals much that is not wonderful but makes 'commentaries' photographically on life and society that is collected and collectible.

 

Imagine a series of photos like this particular one, and how that series might fare if presented in one gallery, all worked up perfectly, matted and framed, and with maybe more care taken in the shooting, to use lower ISO, etc., for better reproduction quality, which I'm doing right now from now on (or a better sensor).

 

I am in some ways a photographer for all (many) seasons.

 

The next one I worked up on this download was a scenic landscape from a couple of states away (others had been worked up from the Chicago area previously).

 

The scenic, I had overlooked completely, but it's one of the best I've ever done.

 

I had overlooked it because it needed some decrease in brightness and a little boost in contrast to show off fall leaves -- a highway/mountain scene taken during fall foliage time.

 

I may become in review more like Garry Winogrand -- just take the photos -- do my best -- then put them on ice for a couple of years, and review them later . . . . with a fresh new perspective and without preconception . . . . having let all the emotive content drain away in intervening years (not to say I LIKE his work, but he was a genius in any case . . . . like his work or not, if only for explaining why he took photos 'in order to see how things look when photographed' (loose paraphrase). Highly irreverent but extraordinarily true even if not absolutely complete.

 

I usually know or feel that one or two photos each download are pretty good, but I often put away the download then, never review it again, and am totally surprised when I run across something like this.

 

I've hired a full-time Photoshopper just to process for exhibition some of my best stuff, (but I process my own work for PN and other web use/that's the rule, and I follow it.). I think I could keep three or four full-timers working for a year or more.

 

If I stopped taking photos now.

 

I come back from an outing with two to four eight-gig cards of photos and post a few over a week or so, then put the downloads away, and on review see wonderful stuff and say to myself later 'I shot that? How come I overlooked that? The way I shoot is not like shooting landscapes where the best is usually pretty evident . . . ..; and photo editing skills are highly useful.

 

Even so, I may post a favorite only to get 3s and 4s, then post a ho-hum shot (in my mind) and get 6s and only later 'see' what raters 'saw' instantly. I'm kind of stupid that way, sometimes, as I shoot intuitively much of the time, although other work is very studied (but very, very rapid).

 

Now, I'll have a cruller and two old fashioned cakes plus two vanilla cakes with maple frosting and coconut sprinkles on top (to go).

 

(You can't take photos like these unless you're somewhere in the vicinity now, can you?)

 

Best wishes.

 

John (Crosley)

 

I just love it

One photo: a thousand words?

 

This is indescribable I think.

 

Thanks.

 

john

 

John (Crosley)

U did a great job on this one; I see a handsome, happy young man confined in a monster body and wonder: what was his crime..?

You see things from a European point of view.

 

This man is in America's heartland, but to get there it is likely many of his ancestors had to endure a long, dangerous ocean journey in which starvation was a peril, and only those who made the best use of their stored calories survived.

 

He now lives in a land of abundance, part of that abundance fills racks and racks of donuts behind him, fat-filled confections covered with sugar cooked in fat, which are quite tasty and for some, irresistible. His obesity and those confections so near by are a bad combination.

 

A McDonald's is every few blocks (quartos), but unlike in Europe where McD's cooks and serves the food fresh and hot and it appears to be 100% beef in the hamburgers, they use something called 'beef products, (recovered beef from what once was beef waste from trimmings that have been processed in ammonia (to kill bacteria) then stirred into the burgers beef to extend it before forming into patties, to keep costs down.

 

Ugh.

 

A McDonald's in Europe, fresh cooked, vs. one in America, from real quality beef, and that slop (source, NY Times), then cooked and kept in a warming drawer until it's dried out) is a poor substitute for real food. Its main attribute is it's 'fast' for a fast-paced 'must have it now' society.

 

Now McDonald's got famous for cooking real tasty burgers, made of 100% beef, and served fresh and hot, often with a little fresh-cooked onion on top plus their condiments. Potatoes that were made into fries were washed and cut on the premises just before frying -- no more, it's all frozen and comes from some commissary, somewhere . . . . who knows where and made who knows when, by who knows who?

 

A single patty, small burger was what made McDonald's famous.

 

Now that same burger has a slice of 'cheese' on it that is probably 60-70% fat and probably doubles the calories unless you specially order it without the cheese, and if you order a Big Mac, you'll get Special Sauce in addition which is mostly mayonnaise-like fat.

 

A real McDonald's burger, cooked in Europe, fresh off the griddle still is pretty tasty (except in Holland last time I was there, since they believe in incinerating them there But especially in Eastern Europe, they're the place to eat; cheap, hot and for the most part, pretty darn good, but not a staple meal two and three meals a day-- just for special occasions.

 

For this fellow one doubts he gets much else than 'fast food' supplemented by a few donuts, all on top of some genes that one would bet he inherited from ancestors who survived starvation on the high seas or through tough winters after poor crop years, because they could parse scarce calories, which left him, a descendant predisposed to becoming very fat, and pretty helpless, once he became fat to trimming it down. (statistically 'fat' or 'obese' people have about a 10% chance of ever regaining 'normal' weight once they have achieved obesity . . . . .

 

Also, gradually over the past decades, schools in America, to 'cut costs and concentrate on core curricula' have cut out physical education which might have made him run around the track, do wrestling, play rugby or soccer, etc., leaving a guy like him ill prepared for a chance at being thin.

 

It's more than 'he lifts the fork to his mouth' and bears sole responsibility -- much of American culture is dedicated to the policy of 'would you like fries with that?' to boost the meal price to pad it with extra profits .. . . . and good health be damned.

 

Some of that food many find very tasty, especially since both mom and pop are working, so few real 'home-cooked meals find their way to a the table, and meals often are taken 'on the run' separately . . . of whatever's at hand, from the freezer or whatever.

 

He hasn't got a chance, as I see it.

 

His crime: Being born in one of the countries where food is cheapest in the world (source again NY Times), and where capitalism has encouraged eating at the lowest common denominator e.g. fast food, fat food, all the time.

 

(and I'm guilty too)

 

I've lived through the above.

 

Nice comment, Vladimir.

 

Worse, obesity afflicts women, too.

 

In a recent trip through Los Angeles,except in the most tony settings and neighborhoods, it was almost impossible to find a woman who conformed to the height-weight standards that one ordinarily sees in Ukraine, where women are amazingly attractive and often bikini-ready (just put one on and go to the beach and wow 'em; one friend, a young woman in her later 20s, celebrated that she was able to gain 600 grams over several weeks by eating things with mayonnaise, butter, etc., because she seemed impervious to gaining weight (in Ukraine).

 

She is model beautiful with a figure to match, before or after the 600 grams (.6 kilograms = about a pound and a fraction) weight gain.

 

And she eats whatever she wants.

 

Just not often and not much.

 

(Once an individual attains great size, it seems that individual is almost bound to maintain that size, probably forever, according to statistics.) (At one point some years ago, I had read ALL the significant scientific/medical literature on morbid obesity and still keep somewhat current.

 

(My source: Stanford University Medical Center, Medical Library from personal visits in the stacks/carrels.)

 

(I believe in saying where I get my knowledge when I state certain types of facts,so that others can weigh whether I'm 'full of it' or not . . . . but only in certain areas where there is scientific or other debate that is serious.)

 

Vladimir, your comments are always appreciated, and show great understanding.

 

John (Crosley)

John,

 

Something that crossed my mind. Last summer we took a vacation through beautiful Colorado, Utah and the associated parks and tourist areas.

 

I noticed there were many less overweight people there then in the heartland. Of course there are also many more bike paths, trails, etc etc.

 

In Illinois (with the exception of major cities) there is very little of all that. (unless a ride through the cornfields works for you).

 

This is not a scientific observation, just a personal one.

somehow scary but it's a great image. congrats.

What was his crime? His crime was eating the donuts instead of selling them.

John, a very good image, colourful, interesting and informative. regards

Scientists tell us to beware or anecdotal evidence.

 

Yet it is 'anecdotal evidence' about Indians in Central America eating bread like substance, kept moist and growing a green-like 'mold' on it while they went on hunting journeys that seemed to explain why they had virtually no infections or many sorts that plagued others who did eat that way.

 

One looks at anecdotal evidence, then tests it with a study, but never also laugh at anecdotal evidence . . . .as I suggest that your 'theoretical' explanation ranks high on the list of probable explanations for the phenomenon you observed and could probably be verified (one would have to take into account ancestry of the individuals, as many in that area, were descendants of Texans who were later immigrants, who came (largely and interestingly enough from places like Czech and Slovak, - which helps account for the Texas heritage of beautiful women - but as later immigrants their gene pool was not so trimmed as the early Illinois settlers (and his ancestors). Some of mine were among the pool his were drawn from (and some were much more recent -- my lineage goes to pre Revolutionary War on one hand and a grandfather born in Russia (German speaking) on the other.

 

In any case, no matter what the science or the speculation, there is no doubt . . . . this young man looks like he could use a summer of hiking from the bottom of the Grand Canyon to the top, laden like a pack mule, and he might look a little different, I am sure.

 

Agree?

 

John (Crosley)

Scary and great.

 

High accolades = as both equal 'impact' which is an important element in whether a photo has engaged you, something I consider a sign of success.

 

I am pretty sure you do too.

 

No heavy Photoshopping needed here, just a splash of cold water.

 

Right?

 

John (Crosley)

He did sell donuts, tasty donuts.

 

He is a good advertisement for how tasty they are.

 

I'd beware of a very thin donut salesperson, just as I would a short person selling in a big and tall shop.

 

What would a thin person know about donuts, anyway.

 

And he's obviously very happy, so who are we to rain on his parade.

 

And he's committed no crime; he's an American and the world knows (or the Christian fundamentalists are teaching us by inserting in textbooks when they can) that God Has Chosen America to Fulfill His Plan to Spread Christianity Throughout The World by Choosing America to Fulfill His Wishes -- in other words, America is the Chosen Land.

 

Or so the Christian fundamentalist are busy stuffing down our throats and inserting into textbooks in Texas (per the NY Times Sunday Magazine article, a fabulous piece of reporting.)

 

Your God has chosen Israel, and their God has chosen America.

 

If Americans eat Dunkin Donuts then it must be God's plan!

 

No crime at all and to suggest otherwise is blasphemy (to them).

 

;~))))

 

John (Crosley)

I note with gratitude your compliment.

 

I found this in an older folder from a cross country trip.

 

You can't imagine how much 'guts' it took to post this, as it is so far out of the Photo.net mainstream, yet I am compelled to do just such things.

 

I guess that is the first test of the power of this image, despite obvious technical/aesthetic defects which keep it from being my most worthy.

 

Thanks again.

 

john

 

John (Crosley)

Valadimir started the "crime" thing.

Very nice!

When you were a child did you tell your elders 'he started it?'

 

;~)))

 

(Please read in its entirety the response he got, too)

 

I'm not so sure Vladimir was pleased with it, (though we're all friends here, so far, and we can easily speak truths without letting friendship go away, I hope.

 

John (Crosley)

It's a wonder this ever got posted.

 

It isn't much technically as a photo, but somehow it has great strength.

 

And I have guts (more than my somewhat protuberant belly).

 

I am less afraid of 3/3s than most posters here who have been here a long time and have good reputations.

 

And I almost never 'pull' a photo -- maybe once or twice a year and usually for 'technical' reasons . . . rather than 'bad reception' or ''bad ratings' I've got the 'guts' to go with my instincts, and if no one else likes that, well that's their business, AND they can let me know if they do so within the boundaries of good taste and politesse.

 

(some have strayed, but precious few).

 

If you went through my unposted photos, you might be amazed by what you like that I have passed over.

 

A genuine world class (photo/art) critic and expert did that with my captures two years ago (he asked to do it, free), and his results drove home one point.

 

Unless it's hopelessly blurry because of 'out-of-focus errors and has no hope of being 'art' because of that, or it's an accidental shutter release, perhaps showing a wall, or the pavement, then I try not to delete anything; I try to archive most everything.

 

You never know when obese dunkin donut salesmen might develop into a full-fledged category for me, or simply 'occupations where the worker 'looks the job' and voila, a book or an exhibition if my work ever gets shown and well received (f I ever get off the stick.)

 

(ya gotta think ahead, as far too few do).

 

For instance, it's not the first book success that is the telling one for fledgling authors, but the second and beyond which reveals their 'staying power' (aside from J.D. Salinger, God rest his iconoclastic soul.).

 

If I ever get asked for an 'encore' I want to be prepared.

 

This may be the stuff of which 'encores' are made, I think.

 

Thanks Alan, I appreciate the compliment . . . . it's very welcome . . . . as posting this was a 'big risk' in my mind considering how many possible 3/3s raters might throw at it.

 

No matter what, it's certainly not a cliche.

 

Alan, I'm hopelessly thankful for this continuing, long-term discussion with my viewers (including especially my more regular viewers) for keeping my mind fertile and providing ammunition for the next time I set out with my cameras 'on the prowl' which may mean just a trip to the grocery, dentist, or a stroll . . . . as well as a transoceanic journey of months' duration.

 

It's all the same if it yields one or more good photos and hopefully interesting discussion.

 

(what on earth do 'landscapers' write about except 'what filter did you use'?, (or tripod, etc.) and what are its characteristics?, or what time of day? and more variations. (no slam on landscapers as some here are world class.)

 

john

 

John (Crosley)

You noted above, the apparent sparsity of the greatly obese in various parts of Arizona, Utah, and Colorado and seemed to attribute that to proximity to great opportunity for outdoor sports (in great settings which lure those who can into nature's wilds and beauty, I read).

 

Well, I opined above, that's pretty intuitive, but I also cautioned against drawing too many conclusions from 'anecdotal evidence' as opposed to the 'scientific method'.

 

When one views your conclusion, one might instantly jump to what seems a 'natural conclusion': proximity to wilderness breeds increased fitness (e.g. less obesity)

 

That indeed may be true

 

AN ALTERNATIVE EXPLANATION (OR PARTIAL ALTERNATIVE EXPLANATION)

 

If you ever have spent substantial time in those areas, and specifically in Utah, Arizona [the Northeast portion especially -- Four Corners], as well as Idaho, something besides 'great natural beauty' and 'rugged outdoors' might strike you particularly if you moved into many of the local towns.

 

The first question asked you might be 'Are you LDS?'

 

The answer might easily fix your social standing and place in society in a great many communities in those states (less sure about Colorado, but there seems to be a sizable LDS population there, though not as predominant as Utah, Idaho and Northern Arizona . . . . where even some of the police between Northern Arizona and Central Utah below Salt Lake City have been 'discovered' to be members of a polygamist sect, or at least protectors of that outlawed practice and its leaders.

 

Idaho is full of LDS . . . maybe in Southern Idaho in greater proportion than much of Utah, which started out as LDS land.

 

WHAT IS LDS? YOU ASK

 

The Mormons, silly.

 

These are people who in one sense were way ahead of their times.

 

When in 1966 I visited a relative at Utah State University in Logan (north of Salt Lake City), I was informed there was 'no smoking in public buildings'.

 

That was mainly the product of Mormon teachings that tobacco was illicit, as was (is) alcohol use.

 

Now, there is a known medical link between cessation of smoking and weight gain, and people who are a little 'thick' around, sometimes take up smoking knowing that it is likely smoking will cause them to lose weight.

 

In fact, part of the reason our nation (one of the fattest on earth) also is one of the longest lived despite all that obesity, appears to be that this country more than most has been increasingly intolerant in many ways of smoking and tobacco use in general.

 

Just go to the front of any public building (even a hotel) in California and look at the sullen-looking people standing there, sometimes in very inclement weather, far from the entrances and away from any windows that might cause indrafts.

 

Those are the smokers, and far from being 'outdoorspersons' who want to hike and jog and ski, they're outdoors to smoke -- not to enjoy nature's beauty.

 

They're out there by law.

 

No smoking in almost all public buildings.

 

Smoking in the USA has hit its lowest point ever, and one concomitant result MAY BE that there has been substantial weight gain among those who have given up smoking . . . and research shows that weight gained tends never to come off, at least statistically, . . .. all those 'Hollywood diets' notwithstanding.

 

And anyway, all those Hollywood stars who are so fit in those movies, have been revealed by the 'National Enquirer', 'Star', other tabloids and celebrity magazines when between engagements to pour on the pounds.

 

Kevin Federline (formerly known as Mr. Britney Spears), is a late victim who experienced enormous weight gain and is feverishly trying to get if off.

 

If you have great will power (most stars do when it comes to their careers, -- Whitney Houston notwithstanding), a personal trainer, some professional dietitian and the will power to take in fewer calories than you expend, it doesn't matter if you eat only Hersey bars, you WILL lose weight. (you may be a pimply, malnourished person at the end, but also skinner and also probably hating milk chocolate).

 

Fewer calories in than expended equals weight loss.

 

The converse is also true, no matter when you eat or what.

 

People who say 'no food after 6:00 p.m. are just as correct as the people who say 'no food before 6:00 p.m.', as any such restriction will usually result in weight consciousness which usually results in temporary weight loss.

 

The problem is it's almost always temporary, absent surgery.

 

The irony: as one of the world's fattest nations, America is also one of the world's most healthy, especially considering its great size, at least if one measures health in terms of life expectancy.

 

More fat = longer life?

 

Is that the message?

 

I doubt it, but one can make that argument.

 

Probably less smoking means EVERYBODY or NEARLY EVERYBODY lives longer, and runs the life expectancy up overall.

 

Also there is greatly increased nutritional awareness, but alas, putting calories on a menu?

 

What effect?

 

People eat MORE calories, not less.

 

Sadly.

 

It just doesn't work.

 

Too bad,

 

Just as Bluetooth has not reduced the cellphone related accident rate in California and other states which mandate Bluetooth use.

 

It sounds good; just didn't work.

 

Of course obese people eat more (than they need to not be obese) that's a corollary, but a doctor who did bariatric surgery (a pioneer in that) once told me privately that if he did a bariatric procedure once popular such as wiring the mouth shut so only a straw could fit in, patients were so hungry they would actually work on a front tooth or several until they came out so they could defeat the wiring.

 

bariatric - the study of causes, prevention, and treatment of obesity (derives from metabolism studies)

 

Obesity cravings are incredibly complex.

 

Incredibly strong.

 

They are part of the 'Will to Live' - one of the most powerful urges of living beings.

 

Worse, usually a hundred or so calories less per day, usually means weight loss and substantially so over time.

 

Mormonism has long promoted 'healthy living' from their own food reserves and stores to their church doctrine on care of the body (no drugs, no alcohol, no smoking).

 

They long were ridiculed for that, and the alcohol policy is open to argument for the one-two ounce drinker daily, (for whom that intake may be beneficial), but for those who might become drunks who were born Mormons, they're incredibly lucky if they never touch alchohol and don't have it around to sample the first time, as they'll never get drunk enough to discover their inner alcoholic.

 

So, my dear commenter, might it be all or part just the prevalence of Mormonism in that part of the country rather than rugged, scenic and natural beauty which invites outdoor activity?

 

Or a combination?

 

I'll leave it to the scientific method.

 

I told you, scientists are leery of 'anecdotal evidence' as well as any other conclusions one draws that are not scientifically tested.

 

This is one proposal for just such a test regimen . . . . the precise methodology to be worked out, but you see my point, I think.

 

I'm for whatever's right and truthful, even if I didn't think of it or can't otherwise intuit it.

 

I suggest your inquiring and curious mind might be the same.

 

john

 

John (Crosley)

Your work has lots of consistence , and for sure some images gain more strong when they are all in a context , telling something; but for sure this image , alone, speaks a lot. Congrat. Marianne

You completely understand and explain what it is that I do.

 

As a consequence I have nothing more to say, other than 'thank you, profoundly.'

 

John (Crosley)

I was prepared for a string of 3/3s.

 

Just goes to show you, PN raters and members who 'think' are not to ever be dismissed.

 

John (Crosley)

'We Are What We Eat'

'Nough Said?

john

John (Crosley)