Pelicano I

There is a HUGE difference in taking photos in a zoo and photos in a natural environment. Regardless of what you can do in Photoshop, any good image created in a natural environment is far more difficult to achieve than an image taken in a zoo. That said, taking a good image of an animal in a zoo and making it look as if it were taken in the wild, is equally difficult. This is an interesting conundrum. I am a photographer who does both; zoo and natural. Here is the identical image with a black background: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2914210 and with a natural background: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2812506, although reversed. Guess which one had the higher ratings?

 

A zoo is a controlled environment. The animal is limited to the enclosure. The background is limited to the enclosure. The subject is ALWAYS there, somewhere within a limited and defined space. In a natural environment, one needs to be lucky. You never know what will show up (at least in most cases). I've probably been up to Mt. Rainier in Washington State at least 50 times in the last 15 years yet I have only seen one mountain goat on the slopes. If I go to the mountain goat enclosure at the zoo, that animal is always there and if I am patient, I can take its photo, almost for sure. Being able to be in the right place at that zoo to get the photo is a limiting factor. Of course, being in the natural environment and not damaging the ecology is also a limiting factor.

 

Animals in the wild, in general, are far more wary of humans. It is far more difficult to approach closely in the wild yet in the zoo, you are limited by the fences of the enclosure. (Angle, background, fences, position of the sun with respect to the viewing area are all limiting factors in the zoo.)

 

There is no way I would ever find a Sumatran Tiger in the wild in Tacoma, Washington, yet being able to get a decent photo of that magnificent creature in the zoo is very rewarding. On the other hand, the image I take of a heron eating a frog in my back yard is equally rewarding. Here in the wild, chance raises the stakes and, in my opinion, the difficulty of not only finding the subject, but getting a quality image, should increase the ratings of that image by a reasonable factor. Although a manipulated image (i.e., darkening the background) may be nice, I find one can achieve a better wildlife photo and getting a similar effect by using appropriate DOF.

"Here is the identical image with a black background:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2914210 and with a natural

background: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2812506,

although reversed. Guess which one had the higher ratings?"

 

David's example is imo fantastic: a MUST-SEE, really... Especially if you

consider, David, that the job you did to get rid of the natural background in

your picture of a tiger was in fact very poorly done, as you probably know... I'd

rate that one a 2, whereas I'd go for a 5 for the unmanipulated tiger... And yet,

the failed black background manipulation was rated close to 6 ! Guess why I

wrote above that I have some respect for what's at least "well done" - like

Marina's picture.

 

Another photographer on this site uploaded numerous animal pictures (and

other pictures) with plain digital black backgrounds all the way, and each

time, lots of people loved them...

 

All of which concurs to demonstrate

 

1) ... THAT BLACK VELVET ALWAYS WINS !!! :-)

 

2) ... THAT BORING REAL LIFE PHOTOGRAPHERS ARE NOW A SPECIES

ABOUT TO DISPPEAR FROM THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH (or OF THE

SURFACE OF PHOTO.NET at least).

 

(You may now thank God for all that if you wish, but don't forget to thank black

backgrounds and Photoshop too... Also, plan a donation to the WWPF - the

World's Wildlife Photographers Fund...:-)

"Although a manipulated image (i.e., darkening the background) may be nice, I find one can achieve a better wildlife photo and getting a similar effect by using appropriate DOF."

 

I think David's comment is worth repeating. This is SOP for all the Leicaphiles, but all the younger photogs who started out on a small sensor digicam never had that option. I'm sure many people had a good laugh at Marc's comment about old school photographers as a dying breed, but make no mistake. Sites like this one are doing their bit to change the way cameras are used and scenes are presented "photographically."

Hmmm, Carl. I started all this in 1977 with a $100 second-hand Miranda with a 50/1.4 and figured out the creative potential of varying DOF pretty quickly on my own. Let's don't give the Leicaphiles too much credit. . . but you're right about photogs who start with small sensors and small apertures. They cannot learn with such equipment. I will concede good taste and good glass to the Leicaphiles.

 

Marc, David's pictures are indeed worth a look. I like the natural background version as well. In Marina's picture, I'm not sure that it matters.

 

Marina, your English is excellent, and the photo as well. I am glad to get to read this extended discussion on background treatments, DOF, etc.--very true to the spirit of what the PoW should be about.

 

--Lannie

I would argue that even in a zoo, if you are willing to donate your time, there are still great shots to be had without the aid of software. Just like shooting in the wild you have to wait and be patient. Most don't want to invest that is needed or CAN'T invest the time.

 

Marc, I agree that true nature photography (ers) are a dying breed. My respect for them will never stop. For them it's not just about the final image but the process of getting that image. The time spent with nature and the understanding of how it works. Their goal is to capture nature as it is. Now if all you have is a zoo to shoot at so be it, god knows most of my animal shots were done in one. But you have to be able to wait it out. I spent 2 weeks of going back almost daily (2 hour drive one way) just to get a couple good images of a tiger. For me it was more important to capture it in it's encloser as naturally as I could than to 'recreate' the image using software. It's one of my personal favorites not as much for the end result but for the effort it took to get that result. Also a huge tiger stairing you straight in the eye from about 75 feet is an amazing feeling... LOL.

 

I will be the first to admit that I am a nature photography snob. I think taking 2 different scenes and slapping them together to make one image just doesn't work. That's just me and in the real world I know I am a minority. Personally I think that in itself is a shame...

 

I have really enjoyed reading this thread.

Technically interesting, but I don't find it terribly inspiring. Also, there's something odd about the lighting/shadows/background. Did you shoot this using a stuffed pelican?

Marc G: The only reason I tried to do the black background on the tiger shot was to "join the crowd and get those higher ratings". I admit it. It is my first attempt at this and as you so brilliantly noted, it was done poorly. Sorry my PS skills aren't as good as others. But the other image was chosen as photo of the month here: http://www.thebigcats.com/potm/potm_2005_06.htm

 

Now that I have a long telephoto at f4, I plan to go back and do it justice with shallow DOF.

Congrats on POW, Marina, it is well-deserved. A fantastic image...

Enhorabuena Marina, muy merecida que te eligieran para foto de la semana. Tu galeria es espectacular. Saludos cordiales.

Es una imagen Esplendida...desde todo punto de vista.

El fondo negro un acierto mas.

El momento fotografico...solo vos podrias mejorarlo...

a traves de tu sensibilidad.

Un luz a la contra en tu mas bello estilo.

Un talento...el tuyo...Admirable.

Esta imagen destila buen sentir y buen hacer.

Un Cari�o Marina.

wow

I think the overall of this picture is superb, I like the part that you can see the silhouette of the fish in his mouth...that's special! It is well-deserved and Congratulations on POW! Regrads, Abdul

Ya tocaba, te lo dije hace tiempo.

Ahora solo disfruta de este merecido premio, pasa de ciertas cosas y quedate solo con la importancia de lo que has ganado y con la seguridad de que lo has hecho con tu arte y tu buen hacer.

Estoy muy orgulloso de que tu nombre forme parte de la lista de los POW, siempre pense que es donde tenia que estar y por fin se hizo justicia.

Me siento ganador contigo, bien sabes la alegria que me da el poder abrir la web y ver tu foto ahi en medio, abriendose ante el mundo.

Enhorabuena, un beso muy grande.

Excellent capture! Great lighting, although I miss a little light in the eye of the bird. This would make the picture more 'alive' I think. Otherwise a great shot. Congratulations.

Nice shot. But I too do not like the black background. Reminds me of one of those motivational posters and I expect some kind of inspirational business quote under it.

Marina: I liked this image very much. It was nicely framed, expertly executed and the action puts it over the top. Congrats on POW.

 

Carl: I haven't been photographing that long, will probably give up photography before going digital, I don't make zoo shots, don't digitally alter (I'm bad at it anyway) my images and I've just made the switch from 35mm ......... to 4x5.

 

Fear not, old school photography is alive and well :-)

In my opinion, this shot is by far the better photo end result...

 

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3600245

 

Front lit shots of white subjects with black backgrounds (fast shutter) are the exact reverse of backlit shots, where the shutter speed is much slower (metered for shade) and therefore the background trending much lighter. As always, these logisitics are identical for film or digital. Cheers, -Greg-

Hola Marina, felicidades por tu foto y por esa distincion como foto de la semana, en mi opinion es una foto con un fuerte componente artistico y por lo tanto merecedora de la maxima nota en estetica. Una toma con una ejecucion impecable y gran calidad. Nuevamente felicidades pues es una alegria ver una de tus fotos en la primera pagina de la web. Un cordial saludo, Paco.

The photo is good, but not real.

You have not captured the unrepeatable istant of time, but you have invented the istant with photoshop.

I think that photography is another thing...

 

bye bye and good photographs with photoshop...

Hola Marina tienes unas fotos muy majas :))

que tengas un buen dia :)))

saludetes de jose santana

fantastico! you are the genuine article, a true photoist.

GREAT capture with fantastic timing.

Fantastic capture!

 

Cheers,

 

Oliver

Fantastc lighting and great composition. Very well done.