Jane III (nude)

Kristen,

 

I hear that you find this photo distasteful. Not everything I shoot is going to appeal to everyone. And I certainly expect some heat over this series.

 

But this shot is beautiful to me. The model is a friend of mine, and what you see is a significant and real part of her sexuality. She is a beautiful, smart, strong woman. And she likes bondage. She does not consider it violence - neither do I.

 

Part of why I shot this is because I know that the difference between consensual sex and rape is all about intention and consent. Likewise, the difference between this photo, and a photo of someone being abused, is in the feelings of the person(s) involved.

 

 

She may like it but it probably feels better than it looks.

Ah, we finally get to see some of your fetish work - cool.

 

I think the image would be stronger with less blank foreground and more space at the top to emphasize the angle of the arm (by including more of it) The dangling rope behind her is a tad distracting. Nicely lit.

 

Kristen - There is no rage/disdain or horror (unless, of course, they enjoy that:)) involved in consensual bondage. It's a more explicit version of the subtle dynamic felt by a strong kiss with your hands held down above your head. Being human is an odd affair - some people enjoy the adrenaline rush of leaping from a plane or riding a rollercoaster. Other's relish being terrified by a scary movie.

 

When bondage is done right, the person bound enters a different headspace - almost medatative. There are a myriad of reasons people enjoy it - freedom from having to choose or be in control, being vulnerable to someone, or simply the physical sensation of a well placed knot. Unlike rape, Bondage is about trust and freely giving up control. Please remember - people do this for fun. I date a school teacher with a master's degree who get's positively pissy if I don't drag out the ropes. Ain't life grand...

Thanks for your comments, Critter...You may inspire me to scan and post a close up shot of her face - I just printed one that has the most beautiful, dreamy, blissed-out expression. Endorphin highs are so photogenic...

There is nothing sexier than a person lost in simply being - unaware of being viewed and involved in experiencing. I most highly agree. I tend to keep my camera pointed and at my eye until people forget it's gaze. Rope is more effective:)

You know, I never really understood this whole bondage thing until I tried it myself. Wasn't even my idea to do so but my friend who also let me take pictures if I tied her up. Thanks to Amy and Critter and every one else that responded to my request for help beforehand.

 

While I think there's some work that is goes over the line for me this isn't it. It's easy for people to get the wrong impression if they don't understand it. Some people don't understand nude photography in general.

 

Amy is smart enough to know not to take David's comments seriously. Just read his other comments on here.

 

Ok. that being said. I really don't like this photo at all. I think the lighting looks very good though. The face and shoulders look great but everything from the rope to the left looks unnatractive to me. The breast, hips and butt aren't very appealing to me. Also the rope in the background isn't arranted in souch a way to add to the composition in my opinion.

 

This is one of the few photos of yours I don't like.

 

I cropped the image, increased contrast and reorientatedateded^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H rotated it to my liking. I'd be interested in hearing what you think.

 

b-de b-de b-de That's All Folks!

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't call the authorities. I thought you would. The fact that you think this is going to result in anything is what's funny. No laws were broken here. The model obviously consented to being tied up and having her pictures taken if you looked at the rest of the portfolio. She also doesn't appear to be underage.

Amy, normally I like your work. Though the technical side of this is good, I find the posing of the model disturbing. It's not photojournalism and I see no point to this photo

Tom,
Interesting take, with the rotation. Thanks for your perspective. I enjoy seeing other people's ideas...
Ken, I understand that along with Kristen, you don't like the picture. I can only reiterate that I don't expect everyone to like it or understand this type of erotica. Fetishes are both specific and intense, and to people who don't share them they make no sense. But they are quite important to those who experience them. And thats the reason for this picture: its important to her, and its important to me to take pictures of people being real.

This discussion, acrimonious as it became in parts, gives me a good

opportunity to remind folks of our editorial policy. Comments about

the photo are welcome. Comments about or attacks on other photo.net

users are not welcome, because they are never productive. Certainly

reporting or threatening to report people to the authorities is

unwelcome, if for no other reason than we assume that no actual

criminals would be dumb enough to post evidence of their crimes on a

public Web site.

 

Consistent with this stated policy, let me try to critique the image.

First I'll try to find something to like. I think the lighting is

fairly uniform and neutral. We can see all parts of the subject and

aren't distracted by gimmicky lighting. Now for some constructive

criticism... I think the image would be better without the rope

behind the model's head, dangling in the upper-left hand corner of the

frame. Ditto for the piece of rope in the upper-right corner. The

rope is fairly bright and these pieces draw attention to the corners

of the frame for no apparent reason. Similarly another improvement

might be effected by smoothing out the foreground cloth. In

particular the big lump near the lower right corner catches the eye

and, though I haven't discussed this with the photographer, I'm going

to conjecture that this was not an important part of the image.

 

(Notice in the above that I did not talk about sex or bondage, my

opinions thereon, or my personal experience therewith. This is partly

because I don't think anyone should be interested in an engineer's

opinions on these subjects. This is partly because I KNOW that nobody

will be interested in an engineer's experience with these subjects.

But mostly because we can work together to help the photographer

create a better version of this photo without ever addressing the

issues of sex or bondage.)

 

 

 

Amy, I do love Tom's rotated version. It adds a little something, I think. Hope David doesn't cause you any hassle. I enjoy your art.

Phil, reading your comment, subsequent to reading your e-mail message, made me literally sick to my stomach. How you can regard a posted image promoting violence against women as if it were an issue of artistic license is incomprehensible to me.

 

At whom is "Amy Powers" laughing more; at me, or at you?

 

My comments are "unwelcome." I will never again post another comment at this site so long as your name remains associated with it.

 

Aid and comfort to the hooligans.

 

Signed, David Geiszler

 

 

Wow, Lighten up francis... The "women" is A woman who enjoys this particular pastime. Would you feel better if she held a whip and a man was tied up at her feet? Not your cup of tea, obviously, but in this big, wacky world many people fix a second pot and sip it with relish. No need to get unruly... then again, I'm sure Amy could get some really unique shots of Moulder and Scully - could be fun...:)

One thing I like about this series is that it is provocative enough to get people talking about the subject matter, not just the technical merits. That has always been the goal of many artists, and I applaud Amy for being successful with this particular photo. It's unfortunate that those who are/were offended didn't choose to simply look elsewhere or, if they were absolutely compelled to comment, simply state that they did not like it.

 

Now, on to my technical comments. I agree with others that the rope in the background on the left side is distracting. However, I disagree about the rope in the upper right corner being distracting. Since it is part of the binding, it is relevant to the main subject. As usual with Amy's photos, the lighting is great. I must say that the expression on the model's face in the original picture (as with other pictures in this series) isn't convincing to me... it looks like she's posing instead of being caught candidly. I really like Tom's cropped and rotated version because it transforms the model's expression to one of self-reflecting bliss. I also like the fact that the rotation gives the impression that she is hanging almost vertically upside-down -- ever-so-slightly shocking without being distasteful.

Thanks for your comments, Kyle...In response to your comment about her expression...Hmmnn. Let me explain how I do bondage shoots. I am not the person doing the actual ropework, for a start. What happens is that I get together with someone who wants to be tied up and someone who want to tie up that person. I do whatever I can to make the setting as appropriate as possible in photographic terms, like clearing stuff out of the background, ect. And then I just get out of the way, and they go. In this shoot, I would occasionally say "Jane, look at me." Thats the extent of my direction of the session. So its actually closer to PJ-ism than a controlled studio shoot.
So while I hear that to you, her expression doesn't read as true, in fact, it is the true expression of Jane in bondage. Would it be possible for you to comment on what kind of expression would seem more real to you? I'd be interested in knowing what someone who has not (I assume) seen a lot of fetish photography would expect...

First, I do not think the photo promotes violence against women. And we do not even know if this woman's partner is male or female. Consentual SM is widely enjoyed by many thousands -- if not millions -- of folks out there. (Although I am not one of them.)

Photographically, the color closeup of the same woman in this folder works much better for me. This shot looks too staged, and the perfectly horizontal framing adds to that undesirable effect. Perhaps an off angle framing with more cropping would work better?

Finally, I would like to thank Amy for having the courage to share these images with us.

I quite like the expression on her face - I think you've done a good job of capturing the expression of someone really enjoying the sensations she's experiencing.

 

The rope behind her head is a little distracting, but should be trivial to paint out.

 

I think I do prefer the "Jane's Face" image - since it focuses the attention more on her expression.

I find Kyle's comment interesting, because of the series with Jane, this is the one with my favorite expression ("Jane's Face" is nice too, but I prefer how the black and white turned out, I don't like the colors in that one).

 

Very interesting way to do these shots, Amy. I have trouble with the studio because of the model directing. I prefer doing PJ stuff and having so much "power" over the shot is just fizzling me, so this might be something I'd try.

Funny how the following photo has not generated the same controversy.

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=473494

Amy apparently didn't understand my original comment: "She may like it but it probably feels better than it looks."

 

In case she isn't the only one what it means is: Using photography (rather than eg writing) to express normally private & personal experiences has a problem that the photo only shows the appearance of what is happening, not the feelings of the person involved. So eg someone having an orgasm could look just the same as someone in terrible pain. There is a kind of accepted visual language used in films etc. but this is mainly phoney and designed to appeal to male voyeurs. The problem is even more difficult when you come to S/M which is anyway on the ragged border as far as personal experience and is used especially in an exploitative way for people who want to inflict real pain or have real domination. I'm not saying she took the photos in the process of making a "snuff movie" but how do I know? I'm sure it's all very consensual etc. (& maybe phoney too) but the photo doesn't tell us that - all we see is a woman trussed up.

I seemed to have missed the origin of the Clarence debate, but I can describe briefly what I find compelling about the self portraiture. As a male, I have a biological, chemical, inate sense of wonder at the fleshy curving of the female form. Unlike others, I don't think this immediately propels me into the category of letch or some similar monicker which equates in some pavlovian way, a nipple with a hardon.

 

The interesting thing about Amy's self reflection is that the intuitive allure is given depth precisely because the photographer is the model. There is complexity in that relationship - something different from the way I would approach it. The tradional aesthetic is informed by the person who is both defined by the beauty and stands apart from it.

 

In some ways, I think Amy tries to divorce herself from the dichotomy. I think it's interesting when that conflict reveals itself. (sorry to delve into 3rd person)

 

The more interesting discussion (to me) is not the barrier between art/pornography. We all have some sense of our own delineation. The fascination is really the thought behind the boundaries. What makes us uncomfortable, what is risk of exposure, what compells us both sexually and as humans? (Not sure the difference)

 

What I always appreciate is the investigation. Whether it be lighting effects or subject matter. Long live the thirsty quest for understanding...

i do not like this photo. i love it. i have been "lurking" around here for weeks, looking at the wonderful work but saw little that addressed who i am as a woman, an artist or a human being. this does. yes, i am deeply into consensual bdsm. i am a very educated woman doing this completely freely. i do not expect anyone to understand it. i do expect people to respect my choices as a member of a free society. having said that, this photo does more to express my humanity than any other i have seen. people just do not understand bdsm or it's practitioners, what we love and why. i know it is hard to comprehend a different thought pattern from your own but believe me, we exist and there's nothing contrived or phony about it. i look at this and i do wonder if she is conscious or not. that is a great artistic slant because it could be either way. having done this at length i can say without reservation that i enjoy having this done even if i am unconscious or asleep. this photo intrigues me for that reason as well as others. i love the way you have used a model who isn't a barbie doll but a lovely normal looking woman. hurray for that! i made a comment on another photo that what you are seing isn't necessarily pain or pleasure in the way most of you understand it. it is joy, contentment and bliss. it is probably some kind of endorphan rush too but i never cared where it came from. it likely comes from deep in our limbic brain, harkening back eons ago to when we dealt with cave men and were glad they were around to protect us and, yes, use us. thank you for showing a subbie like me in such a loving way.

I am surprised at the Controversy. Bondage has been around for quite a few decades. I thought most individuals were aware of it and it's "adherents". I don't pretend to fully understand but I can accept a different way to look at things. This is different.

 

From the way the photographer described her process this is more photojournalistic than anything else. In that sense she is presenting something quite valid for that art form. As an observer, she is showing us what she sees in all it's raw form. For that, this is very well done.

 

Some of her other folders seem to suggest she may have a first hand acquaintence with the subject herself. In that case, the photographer is also reporting some self-perspective in choosing what she sees. That is sort of brave. Well done.

My oppinion "from a photographic point of view" (we are in photo.net) is that it is a good photo. A=6, O=6.