Potential Ukrainian Brides Meet American Suitors (It's Not What You Think!)

Comments and Ratings Please!

 

These two young potential brides in Odessa, Ukraine 'introduce

themselves' to two American men in a 'most unusual way'. However,

it's not exactly as it appears; an explanation will be posted in

about 10 days. Your ratings and critiques are invited and most

welcome. (If you rate harshly or very negatively, please post a

constructive comment/Please share your superior photographic

knowledge.) Thanks! Enjoy! John

Don't blame me if you have a dirty mind, please, or if you jump to conclusions. The full explanation of this photograph will be published after it falls off the top rated photo gallery, probably in about 10 days.

 

John ;-))

The photo itself is somewhat bittersweet, and sardonic also; people at the place where it was taken had a round laugh at it, as it was viewed as a 'good capture' and I'm proud to display it as among my best in my Early Black and White folder.

 

John

 

I think this is a nice piece of journalism, and perhaps of social commentary. You capture the moment well, and definately intrigue us with the "non-obvious" explantion of what is happening (I must admit the first thing I thought was what you mentions as "this is not what you think"). I can sense the aggression and desperation in women and a sense of discomfort in men. I also like how washed-out the hair of the blonde is and how it nicely contrasts with the suit her "suitor" is wearing. Also presenting a cowboy and a businessmen in the same boat is a nice bit of social commentary.

What a remarkable image!

I like very much your commentary, as it goes into details that I hadn't even thought about.

 

Yes, the obvious in this photo is not the obvious -- it's a trompe l'oeil (mistake of the eye) but intentionally so, and so it's a visual joke.

 

Humor is in low supply on Photo.net and you correctly have analyzed this photo -- there is a bit of desperation in Ukrainian (and Russian women too) to get out of a country where a substantial number of the population 'dumpster dives' for thrown out food in giant blue garbage bins -- which couldn't happen under Communism.

 

But the women DO marry older men in their native country -- 18-year-olds commonly go with 28 to 40 year old men, not just men of their own age --and it's partly for the economic cushion (written about elsewhere in my vast commentaries).

 

And even, I am told by one very close friend, younger women will go trolling for a successful older man, force his wife out or cause him to have a 'mistress' all because there is a shortage of men in Ukraine -- demographically the men die younger (as in Russia) because the men get fat, have heart attacks, drink too much, have poor job prospects.

 

I'm nearing 60 (gads!) but I'm mistaken for my 40s there, and a woman in her 30s may look like a well-kept woman in her 50s here. Then again my hair is mostly brown, with only touches of gray (thanks Mom!).

 

And this Cowboy is the genuine article, a guy from Northern California who gets his mail in Reno, and he genuinely wore this getup in Ukraine,and probably everywhere else he goes. He's a cowboy and he's proud to be one.

 

The women below him, was quite aggressive around the men, and she might be the perfect companion for him and might do very well around cowboy types; she certainly knew how to handle herself and wasn't 'shy'.

 

Still, things are not always as they appear, and I don't want this photo to become the 'poster shot' for desperate Ukrainian brides because it has a humorous context.

 

It's just too good a photo not to post.

 

;-))

 

John

Thank you very much. You obviously understood this photo. It's not everyday one gets an opportunity to make such a photo, and when one does, one usually doesn't have a camera.

 

Solution: I always do.

 

Result: Posted

 

John

Just In Case anybody is thinking of copying this to make this a 'Poster Shot' emblematic of 'mail order brides' I want to remind them that this photo is Copyright 2005, John Crosley.

 

Moreover, any understanding of this photo before I post my explanation in 10 or so days will significantly alter its meaning, and potentially cause the reproducer to hold these men (and women) up in a false light (which I am not), and that might have serious adverse legal consequences to the reproducer.

 

And, as a man who once married a Russian woman (depicted elsewhere in my portfolio, a woman of great brains and beauty and who has a Russian daughter -- my stepdaughter -- also depicted in this portfolio), I can say from experience that although not every such cross-cultural relationship works out, two of my parents' three children have had such marriages, had satisfying children from them, wonderful experiences and much love that couldn't be found within the borders of the U.S. necessarily (only my spouse's brain cancer intervened.)

 

It's all too easy to mutter the term 'mail order bride', but I have made maybe 30 to 50 trips to the former Soviet Union in relation to my family and former family obligations -- and while not all men (and their brides) have done so, not everyone is foolish or rushes into such relationships.

 

A trip last fall to Ukraine and a half day spent in the departure lounge among many cross-cultural couples in the large departure area there talking with them showed a very, very large number of happy couples, almost all Ukrainian women, married to men of various western countries, more Americans than other countries, but many expatriate Americans scattered throughout the world -- and to a one they seemed pretty darned happy and secure, far happier than if I were to speak to a similar sample, I think, in any airport departure lounge in the United States for U.S. couples traveling abroad.

 

There are stereotyes and stereotypes.

 

Some stereotypes are well-earned; some are not.

 

This photo suggests a stereotype and it is with some misgiving that I posted it; but it's just too good a photo not to post, even though it reinforces a stereotype contrary to my experience.

 

Go figure.

 

John

For those who say that every photo has been taken before:

 

Please post your comments below explaining how this one has been 'taken before' (in a nonpornographic context).

 

John ;-))

 

 

At last! Some of your recent travel pics...This one is quite humorous, it reminds me of those silly games we used to play at parties back in the 60's and 70's (like passing an apple down the line without using your hands). Mildly sexual, good icebreakers..I look forward to seeing your explanation!

 

Welcome back!

 

Lee

One protest rating already has been removed and now another, a 2/2 has been placed on this photo, obviously by someone who didn't rate it as a photograph but as a sexual/moral statement, without bothering to read the numerous disclaiming statements in the commentaries below it which are extensive and which document that this photo is NOT WHAT IT SEEMS, (or maybe it is, somewhat, but isn't supposed to be . . . ), and that person just couldn't resist registering a 'protest' -- but that begs the question . . . a 'protest' against what -- their failure to read and criticize the photo based on the facts as explained?

 

Remember,the title says (It's Not What You Think)

 

John

Ahem... Why is it obvious that someone rating this photo as 2/2 has not read the comments? IMHO the rating should be given without regards to any comments or have I misunderstood the rating system completely? The ratings are given to the picture not the text.

 

Sure, the picture is somewhat original, but for aestethics? Personally, I do not like the burned out highlights and poor tonality of the picture. I do not know if this is due to the exposure or post processing, but _IF_ I rated photos, it would not get above average in this category.

 

But your comments are very interesting and gives this photo, that I would otherwise find rather uninteresting, new light. Without them I wouldn't bother looking at it a second time. My 2 cents.

 

Having said that, you might be right though. Many raters have a very interesting view of how to rate, which is the reason to why I boycott the system.

 

I look forward to seeing what you write in ten days.

I agree with many of your thoughts. This is a 'street photo' though taken far from a 'street' and taken under the harshest of lighting conditions.

 

It also is a conversion from strange 'stage lighting' as a color photo to a black and white photo. It appears in color as largely yellow but with strange color casts that detract greatly from its use as a photo or from the photo's theme, so I converted it (as I have many photos in my Early B&W portfolio, even some from 35 years ago, which were converted way back when, because they simply were stronger in B&W.)

 

Ordinarily a blown highlight is death for a photo from an aesthetic point of view as far as reproduction quality is concerned, but sometimes in 'street photography' (as this is, whether you recognize that or not), you have to 'take them as you get them' and this was taken in a partially dim -- partially heavily lighted dance club -- there is no proper exposure and no post processing that could have resulted in a proper exposure and correct detail and ended up without either muddied blacks or blown highlights, given today's film and/or digital technology, and I have plenty of experience shooting indoors, available light, and know whence I speak.

 

So, I agree, that technically, if you're looking for the texture of the blonde's hair, you're simply out of luck.

 

But aesthetics is something else and includes many things besides beauty. One photo in my a folder bears a 7/7 or a 7/6 and has an entire arm crossing one-third the photo blown, but the photo was SO STRONG the rater felt it was simply superior.

 

Aesthetics includes not just beauty, but also 'visual impact' and many other visual qualities that do not equal beauty. One cannot make the equation Aesthetics = Beauty. It is NOT A TRUISM in all cases. This is one case.

Sometimes it is true and sometimes it is not.

 

And a 2 for aesthetics might have been an honest score, but a 2 for 'originality' is what gives that rater away.

 

There cannot be another nonpornographic such photo on the entire Internet that I can imagine (prove me wrong?) that catches the viewer's eye as this, and for that alone it is probably deserving of more than a 2 rating for 'originality'; and that's why I believe that the 2/2 rater was a religious/moral rater who wasn't rating the photo according to the guidelines. (A previous 1/1 rating was removed, but I'm not going to ask the 2/2 rating be removed, simply because I don't want to be a pain in the a. . . to abuse @ Photo.net, and because it's more interesting to have the rating there to talk about than to have a 'higher score' to brag about (assuming they might also remove that rating).

 

These are perilous times for those who advocate 'free speech' and freedom of artistic expression -- the moralists and short-sighted among us would try to censor us, but based upon what? Would they censor this photo? Some have found it good to excellent. . . others just average. That's what expression freedom is all about -- expressing your opinion.

 

I like and want to foster that. I don't have any trepidation about posting such a photo and rub my hands in glee over posting such a photo because it's just one big visual delight in my sardonic world (and remember, PN is an adult site, not judged suitable for kids without an accompanying parent -- filtered out by AOL and almost every 'screen' available, and this isn't even nudity and as I state carefully 'It Isn't What You Think', although I probably shouldn't have had to say that.

 

I delight in taking interesting, sometimes sardonic photos, often with social commentary, and visually arresting (as I'm sure you will admit this is), and many of my viewers seem to enjoy such photos as my viewership numbers should express.

 

And photos like this, give each of us a chance to express our own viewpoint in these commentaries -- it's all comers, and I invite any others to post their comments no matter from what viewpoint they come from, and especially if they take religious or moral offense at my posting such a photo -- let them tell me why (and after 10 days see if they still have such an objection).

 

Thanks for your comment.

 

John

This certainly must be the best TROMPE L'OEIL ,i've ever seen.Sine i'm dislexic and it would take me forever reading all the comments and the story,my guess would be some kind of funny game on a stage or something like this.LOL,you are funny! Regards,Judy

I'll put you in the sweepstakes (prize contest), and we'll see who wins. Both you and 'Lee Park' have similar ideas.

 

I'm glad you 'get' the humor.

 

John

This is all about what you do see, and what you think you see.

 

I know what I think I see (and I think everyone sees about the same thing lol)

 

But what do I really see?

 

They look like they are on a stage of some sort, the parquetry floor, the metal pole and the barriers...

 

Next, the guys both have name tags on..

 

The guys are also holding a sheet of paper in front of their "focal point" lol

 

hmmmm now having been to a "caberet/live entertainment dinner" once myself (and that's definately not what u think lmao) this looks like one of those mindless amusing party laffs - maybe a strange version of "pin the tail on the donkey"?

 

Well thats my two cents.

 

As always John, thanks for brushing the cobwebs off my mind :)

 

Looking forward to your answer.

 

Cheers, Ellen

and there are cut out hearts in the background - maybe a "getting to know u game" at a "singles only" valentines celebration?

 

Ellen

Ellen, I'll enter you in the sweepstakes. Maybe you'll be a big winner. Then again, it is February and Valentines Day does come in

February. And the heart universally does signify 'love', doesn't it?

 

But then the question is, what do the hearts have to do with the 'position' that these women have assumed? That's not the position of 'love' unless you're seeing it through a pimp's eyes (or maybe some men's).

 

I always like to see that you've stopped by.

 

John (The Cobweb Brusher of the Mind)

I'm wondering who is going to win the sweepstakes. My vote goes to Ellen as she seems to have a lot of experience in this type of games :-D

 

 

I think you used the chanel mixer to get this B/W I find the tones somehow erratic I think it cuould be improved.

 

Take care B.

I won't speculate on the eventual winner(s).

 

As to the tone(s) of the reproduction involved here, I used the lassoo tool for selection and because of the vastly different lighting involved, selectively applied the contrast and brightness levels to each portion and then to portions of the portions. However for the guy with the suit, he was completely blacked out with no detail in certain parts -- for instance his shoulder to the background, and for 'his' young blonde woman, in her hair and her face, she was completely lost in highlights, so no luck there in restoring the gradations -- more luck with the figures at the right.

 

I could have made for more equality between the two sets of figures I suppose and made the cowboy at right blocked out for symmetry and his 'servicer?' more blacked out in her black top, for instance, but I got better tones in the two of them (they had less light and less severe lighting). But then I'm a lighting and Photoshop ignoramus and I'm just getting my abilities minimally in these areas.

 

I can use all the help I can get.

 

Channel mixer in this case would be of little or no help, as the image had to be selectively 'toned', area by area, just to keep it presentable at all.

 

John

Is the blonde holding a pen? Signing something? The brunette also seems to be in a writing posture.

As for how I like the image, I do, but the tonality rubs me wrong. Otherwise a good capture of humorous moment. I'd say 4.5/6.0.

JB

I'm glad you see the humour in this circumstance. I certainly did, rushed to capture it, and those around me readily agreed it was one funny, sardonic photograph.

 

John

Many of those who guessed got this partially or mostly right.

 

Kudos.

 

This is a meeting of an American Agency that sponsors American men to meet Ukrainian women. My computer broke while I was photographing digitally, and I dropped in for a day's meeting to see what it was all about and how they conducted the meeting at this particular agency.

 

Men and women meeting are the same everywhere. Men had come from American sending over $3,000 for the trip, about 50 or so of them to meet upwards of 600 to 1,200 Ukrainian women, some of whom were more interested in the free glass of Ukrainian 'champagne' or a free night's dinner than an American husband, but there were many sincere women. Separating them out was the key.

 

For the agency, keeping the women there, despite the dismal odds of meeting a suitable man, was the challenge.

 

For that, they held contests such as drawings, etc., over a two-day period in this nightclub venue, and then moved to another city (I was not there and cannot report, but I heard the women there in a more rural city were much more eager and sincere, not having seen such a thing before and not having learned to 'game' the system).

 

This is part of the 'get acquainted' and 'stay here' package offered by the dating agency.

 

A Master of Ceremonies, a Ukrainian in Russian, announced a contest through about an eight-hour meeting, gathered two likely (and gregarious) women and asked them to go get two men to play a 'game'.

 

The 'game' involved drawing a Valentine Heart on a piece of paper held by the man in his 'midsection' as depicted, together with an arrow through it.

 

The 'catch' was that the drawing had to be done with the felt-tip pen in the woman's mouth.

 

Hence the unlikely capture.

 

First one to complete a passable heart was the winner.

 

I think it was the very gregarious, assertive woman at the right -- a woman who had about five change of clothes, it seems, for she kept appearing with a new look every hour or so (here in shiny jeans).

 

And the cowboy she chose, as noted above, wore his genuine cowboy outfit, and carried a calling card that identified himself by photo wearing his getup, all as noted above.

 

For those of you who came so close, congratulations, step forward and claim your prizes. Just kidding. The honor of knowing that you are so good at photo interpretation will be good enough, and you can post a comment claiming total (or partial) victory, as you see fit.

 

John

Many of the men who attended this particular meeting complained to me and among each other that they had 'written' to various women in advance of their coming and had had 'correspondence' with the women, or presumed that they did.

 

However, when they arrived, they contacted the women and many were told by the women that the women -- although having signed up with a marriage agency -- had no knowledge of letters written on their behalf to the men, which angered the men.

 

The agency is not identified, as there are many players in the field, and whether this is an isolated (or even a true) problem, is undetermined, and from personal experience I know that there are legitimate such agencies performing legitimate services without resorting to trickery.

 

Of course, the ultimate test comes soon enough when the men come to meet the women they have been writing to, and the women profess not to have ever heard of them.

 

Imagine the consternation and the anger I heard . . . although they spoke quietly . . . for fear of offending the agency which was arranging substitute 'dates' for them.

 

But many men were heading for a local, Ukrainian-based agency headed by an American businessman who lived in Odessa, and that was the subject of conversation as I walked up the steps for the recently posted photo showing a man on a cell phone at the top of the steps, backlighted.

 

American agencies contract with local agencies in the former Soviet Union and whether this is a real problem, a perceived problem or -- if it is a problem, whether it is localized or system-wide, is something for larger authorities and not a subject for these comments.

 

However, caveat emptor.

 

John

As always, a thought provoking shot, with an interesting story behind it.

 

Cheers, Ellen