shuttle boat in Ha Long Bay, Viet Nam

Cuong Tran,

Beautiful shot. The kind of shot that is very very difficult to get. It's usually hard to get all the factors to work together for a shot like this. Lighting, timing, being there, having 'vision' enough to 'see' the shot.

 

Hilarious what some people go on about the regret they would have if they got this shot and did not bracket or manipulate. LOL - who are they kiddin'?! Gotta get a shot this good first mate!

After seeing how many mediocre landscapes are so easily considered great on this site, it is truly refreshing to see such a masterpiece on the frontpage today.

 

Excellent in both departments indeed - originality and aesthetics.Of course, I could say that the colors, the light, and the composition are just amazing, but that's too obvious, I guess.

 

When I saw this picture a week ago or so, I thought I needed to look at this picture a lot more before writing anything about it. Thanks to this POW, time has now come to try to put my feelings in words.

 

First, I too wondered, like Michael Chang, whether a lighter right side would have been better, but quickly concluded that the right side wasn't a main areaa in this picture: its darkness adds drama for me, and actually brings the eye more naturally to the boat.

 

Then I also wondered how it would look if it was flipped horizontally. In this case, the flip makes this a very different photo, imo. For those of us who live in countries where we read from left to right especially, the left is identified as the past, whereas the right is the future. This may sound pompous and unimportant, but I think, it isn't in this case. Flipping the image would show a boat coming out from the chaos into the light, as we would expect from several mythologies. As it is here, on the other hand, the boat is returning "to the past", as if the present was too dark, unpleasant: therefore, the feeling I get from this image is that Man is returning to His Origin, and that he finds the light in it somehow... (Please excuse such a subjective and romantic interpretation, but this photo really moved me, and I'm just trying to explain why.)

 

Conclusion: This is one of those rare landscapes with a soul, which can take my mind away for hours of viewing. And I'll go as far as to say at this point, that this is my favorite picture among ALL landscapes I've seen on this site - no hesitation. I can only dream to ever meet such a beauty in front of my lens. Congrats to the photographer of course, and I'm really glad to see this image given the attention it certainly deserves.

Many of you comment on the fantastic lighting, or write about the dark and ominous bank on the right. You are seeing things that aren't there. The picture 'only' shows a uniformly lit (overcast sky, I guess) patch of water where two diffenently colored bodies of water mix (or rather, don't mix). You can actually see a line of flotsam/foam at the border.

 

This is not a reflection of a spectacular sunset, however much it might look like one at first. Of course this doesn't stop it from being a great photograph!

 

As for the missing detail in the black part on the right, if you make it lighter in an image editor, the surface ripples become quite visible. The detail is there, it is just hard to see.

Great shot! Color is awesome.

Apparently my brain has shut off for the week, because I really don't get this image. I truly appreciate the unusual perspective and abstract quality, but I'm just not sure what I'm looking at. Maybe if I could see a wider angle view first before seeing this one, this picture would fall into place. I understand from reading that there is red silt being carried down the river. But the sharp contrast between the dark water (shadow?) and the clear water, and the odd dark trail left by the boat are just not clicking yet. Maybe in a couple of days...

Well to me it seems pretty obvious to be the confluence of two bodies of water - one carrying the red silty substance - and the other darker and possibly also in shadow. The trail is the wake left by the boat as it disturbs the silty layer.

 

The image is very good and captures a beautiful moment in time, although it is not perfect IMHO. The composition I'm unsure about particularly. The darker water is interesting and puts the wake and oar stokes into perspective, however I feel it unbalances the image somewhat and there should really be a bit more of it to work really well. The position of the boat itself is a little too near the bottom for my liking and gives too much prominence to the rest of the water. The rule of thirds comes to mind to place the boat a little higher although I realise this may not have been possible at the time as it might have introduced other elements into the image and the photographer was already at his maximum focal length with this lens. Even so it tarnishes the image for me to a small degree. The exposure is good but a little bit more post processing might well work to bring out some useful detail in the darker area.

 

A very nice and eye-catching image though.

 

Cheers

This is a beautiful image... The composition, color palette, etc. It is abstract and very real at the same time. I would be proud to call it my own. Well done..!

 

f8 and be there... You were..!

Oh i really don't get this image..The "elves" speak of landscape...what landscape?? The image has been manipulated in my view. Check out the shadow in the front figure of the boat. At his feet is red, which happens to match his shadow perfectly. Now trace back to the black shadow and the object that is causing it..it shouldn't even be there never mind at that angle if you base the sun angle on the front figure. Also In silty waters with moving objects shadows are not pronounced like this...if at all.

 

Now look at the middle figure. Theres a reflection of his hat. In the boat theres some object that exceeds his height yet theres absolutly no shadow for that???

 

Given this is near the equator it HAS to be sundown to have shadows that long, considering the suns position...why no coresponding light from the top of photo?

 

Lastly..the boat doesn't look "flat enough" in relation to the POV..something wrong here it makes me dizzy.

Thanks for the kind words and comments. I felt honored that my photo made it to POW.

 

First some sentimental notes about the trip. This Vietnam trip is dear to me because it was the first time I returned to my country after leaving it more than 30 years ago. Being able to visit different places was fascinating because I was confined to Saigon all my life time there - war was raging then. Having this photo selected was indeed rewarding in addition to an already incredible trip.

 

Sentimental notes aside, I would add some notes about how this photo was taken. "Once in a lifetime" and LOTS of luck indeed cannot be more true.

 

It was early morning and the sun was barely rising. I woke up very early due to jet lag and wandered to my hotel roof top. The day just began nicely, just a little bit of overcast. I saw this boat and the scenic was beautiful but not really unique. By the time I changed my lens from wide angle to tele, the boat has reached its port and was nondescriptive for a photo shot. I chuckled about my slow reaction and started looking for another scene. The rain then started to pour heavily which made me even an unhappier camper. I missed a shot and my soon-to-start boat trip into the Bay would now be ruined. Then some thing amazing happened. The rain stopped, the sky barely lighted up, the silt stream started to pour into the bay and unbelievably the boat turned around, plowing into it. I could take just a couple of shots before then color dissipated and the pattern diluted. Certainly nothing can beat being at the right place and at the right time! (My boat trip into the bay did take place and the photos were nothing to write home about.)

dont mind about how someone could have done better, if only he has happened to be there , in that exact moment, with a right lens and an absolte control of the whole process: you have made the perfect one

I even consider myself lucky to even see this picture and read the description how this pattern formed in the ocean.

Original, really original. Surprising aesthetics, such that I am even jealous!

Take more such shots!

Is the presence of such a substantial silt stream in the bay a normal occurance? Soil erosion in many tropical countries is a huge concern as it chokes out much of the sea life in these productive esturaries.

 

It is a beautiful photo. Cuong did a great job of capturing the moment and deserves all the congratulations that he has been getting

I have been waiting to see if anyone else noticed the strangeness in the reflections, as in 'not making sense' for those of us that have shot long enough to know reality from non. Notice the reflection of the pole with a white thing on it. It's more sharp in the reflection, but the front man is not sharp at all (And the reflection does not line up properly for the POV -point of view). If reflections are sharp for one part, they ought to be for the other. Also no red tint on its reflection, but in the front person there is a very strong one. Also no red tint on their bodies or clothes, which is unusual as the light source is very warm, i.e. warm reflections everywhere else. I'd like to see a scan of just that part of the scene.

Mike, i was about to add...its more than strange the light is incoming from the left ,yet look at the shadows. No sour grapes here but this was stated as a non manipulated image. If you check his folder the pic "Sunset on Perfume river", its pretty apparent the sham goin on (see my comment). The longer i view this the more dizzy i get.

Paul, regarding your accusation, see my response to you on the Sunset on Perfume River.

Michael, I adjusted the contrast and brightened the ferry to highlight it.

The image is wonderful. As for the efforts to debunk this photo, I believe the comments are coming in part from people who just don't fully understand what they're looking at. There is no warm lighting in this image, it was an overcast morning. The color in the water isn't a sunset or sunrise it is the light silt washing into the very dark water of the bay. The POV looks fine and the variation in the sharpness of reflection on moving water doesn't seem like a very solid thing to hang your accusation on. The reflections look fine. I really think people are seeing a sunset refection in the water and getting hung up on it. The details of all the other elements of the picture speak far stronger of authenticity than any of the flawed assumptions that might indicate some manipulation.

Your responce befuddles me...."There is no warm lighting in this image, it was an overcast MORNING."..YET.. "I really think people are seeing a SUNSET refection"

 

Please explain the strength of the shadows, given "There is no warm lighting in this image". Why is das boot facing the sun...yet the shadows are from the side?

 

OK heres a big clue...take it to PSP and brighten 100 stops...now what do u have?

 

I rest my case.

I'm sorry I confused you. I was trying to make the point that people are SEEING a sunset, not that there is one. I might be wrong but I believe you think the color in the water is a reflection of a sunset in the sky. That's why you think the boat is heading into the sun. In actuality, the sun was to the side of the boat and the shadows being cast are correct. According to the photographer the rain cleared right before the shot was taken and this could have been just enough to cause somewhat strong shadows from the side. The shadows are from the side because the boat isn't heading into the sun or sunset that you think you see.

 

I tried brightening the image 100 stops and missed your point. You'll have to explain it to me.

 

Please answer this: Do YOU think that there is a reflection of a sunset in the water?

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your closed case.

Ok will re-open it Mike. Once u brighten it way too much look where the land meets the water (right) ,well nobody claimed it was land, but it seems too abrupt and unatural a change in water conditions. The overall effect is a tidal wave swallowing the boat. The wake of the boat gives the impression of an almost overhead shot yet the boat seems to be on a different angle.

 

More disturbing is to zoom wayyy in on the shadows of the boat. A true shadow shows very little variance in pixelation colours. On the outside yes but not in the centre. Try this on any bonafide shadow from another pic. Shadow is an absense of light with no tones but here we have mutihued shadows...

 

Next...given the light is from the top of the pic and that women rowing is on the same plane as the guy in front...why is her shadow shorter?

 

Lastly..(we are still zoomed way in)...where the boat cuts through the water ...follow it back about 2 boat lengths. On the bottom edge of the wake there are 2 unaturally square objects. Not objects but the pixelation is not congruent with the surroundings. You have to have it brightened a lot to see it and not sure if it means anything. The eddies created by the women rowing...i question whether they would be so pronounced given the changed water conditions or if they would diminish in the real world. That lady must be rowing very fast.

 

Not an expert but do know shadows don't have colour... My point here is not that its not a pretty picture..it is..but its POW and its labelled as unmanipulated.

If you've ever been to this area - or any similar area where there is a huge amount of silted water running out to a different body of water - usually a river emptying into a sea (think Pearl River Delta area)then you'll know that much of what's going on in this shot is very normal.

 

Take a look at many arial photos of sites like this and you will see many of shots that require you to do a double-take because they look so unnatural. Having just come back from a very similar area with very similar lighting (Hainan Island-China) I can attest to the light playing tricks. Several shots for a client were refused because although they were 100% natural (meaning in camera only with no digital manipulation) the client just couldn't believe/didn't feel they looked 'natural' enough to be believable. Hilarious. Thank God I also shot some more mundane stuff as well. So most of what you describe as beig 'manipulated' doesn't strike me as so - having shot in many of these areas I know just how 'unreal' they can look. That's exactly the exquistie beauty of them!

 

As for the shadows of the rear figure being shorter than the one at the front of the boat... sure... he's sitting in the center of the boat and she is off slightly to the right. Thus - the shorter shadow. As well there could be a host of other reasons. Light and shadow are more dynamic and fickle than what we learned in grade school physics. LOL - if it wasn't we all be the best photographers possible without all the blood, sweat and tears and the thousands of botched shots.

 

As for the eddies in the water from her ores - yes they would stay for quite a while - probably due to the colloidal suspension/dispersion qualities of silt in sea water and the rate of outflow from the river into the sea rather than her somehow rowing fast as put forth by you as an attempt to shore up your 'manipulated' accusation.

 

Give the armchair Photoshop detective work a rest and get out a bit more or just enjoy the beautiful shot. ;)

I was just about to post a reply to Paul Greenwood but was beaten to it by Lucas!

 

Would like to add though, re the shadows comment, i think we are seeing both shadows AND reflections and hence it looks nothing like manipulation to me.

 

I could be wrong as I'm no expert either but i really don't think so.

 

Cheers

You wrote: "The wake of the boat gives the impression of an almost overhead shot yet the boat seems to be on a different angle."

 

This is simply wrong, sorry. With a 200mm lens, such images are flattened, and this illusion is very common. If need to be, I can post here an image (2 in fact) taken at the same angle and where you get exactly the same feeling that the people walking or standing are actually not perpendicular to the ground. Yet they are. It is a very NORMAL thing for high angles, shooting down with tele-lenses.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I'm afraid I still don't think your assertions are rock solid. Nor do I think any of them prove that this photo has been manipulated. You make a few assumptions to support your conclusions that I don't agree with. For example you're assumption that the water "seems too abrupt and unnatural a change in water conditions" is flawed. I've seen this exact phenomenon in person on the Amazon River. There are numerous photos of this kind of water condition all over the net. National Geographic has some very beautiful images of this type. The kind of wake being cut through the silt and the "eddies" from the oars are also typical of this kind of water condition. As a whole I don't see the disconnect between the "impression" of wake and the angle of the boat. They seem perfectly aligned to me.

 

On the color shadow issue I think I understand better now what you were referring to. Again though I believe those aren't shadows but rather they are reflections and that's why there is color there.

 

Then onto the person rowing? I don't know how you can tell it's a woman but "she" isn't on the same plane as the person in the light shirt at the front of the boat. The light shirted person is on the near side of the boat, which is on the same plane as the basket full of red material next to the rowing "woman." That's why their reflections are of different length.

 

I believe I do see the square details you are referring to in the wake. Here again I'm not sure that that is so "unnatural" that it's conclusive of anything. I think a higher resolution version of this image would give a better idea of all of the points you bring up.

 

I understand that this is POW and that everyone needs to take the manipulated issue seriously but I don't think, based on what you've pointed out to so, that anyone should leap to the conclusion that this image in anything but genuine. Have an opinion? Sure. Ask the questions? Absolutely. But to conclude something like this when you are effectively calling the photographer a liar is, in my opinion, too much.

 

Well I'll get off my soap box and quit hogging up space with my opinion and let everyone else have theirs.

@ Paul Greenwood

 

Brightened x 100 ? So what ?

 

Please what is this brighter upload supposed to demonstrate ? That the light is coming from bottom left ??! If so, this must be a joke. You are looking at a water surface here, not at the real sun. Even assuming that the bottom left light was a reflection of the sun (which apparently it wasn't), you would have no case at all: depending on the height of the sun, on its position, and on the exact angle a picture was taken at, the sun can appear reflected in absolutely any corner of such a photo. Trying to base an accusation on this brighter area bottom left seems pretty weak to me, unless I'm misunderstanding completely the point you are trying to make; just like you have no clear case, Mr. Greenwood, in the Parfume river photo you refered to in your previous post.

 

The one thing that seems true is that the boat is fairly bright in the present circumstances, and well, as the photographer said, he dodged it - which is not a manipulation by PNet standards.

 

Finally, if you declare that shadows are not where there ought to be, it may be interesting to read what kind of manipulation you think took place. Are you suspecting 1) that in this POW, this boat was simply added from another picture - i.e. we would be talking about a composite...? And if so, do you have any idea how complex such photoshopping would be...? Or 2) do you suppose the photographer simply changed the position of the highlight...? And if so why?

 

In both cases, you would be wrong, but I'd be curious what exactly you suppose the photographer did to manipulate this image...

@ Michael Fletcher

 

While I agree with almost everything you wrote, there is this sentence I would like to question:

 

"I believe those aren't shadows but rather they are reflections and that's why there is color there."

 

Please not that there can be color filled-in into shadows just as well as into a reflection, which invalidates this small demonstration. And please note (possibly for an interesting discussion), that a reflection of something which isn't red should not be red either...:-)