Dirty Duo

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I have to agree with Brandon. The sea of flying dirt was obviously worked over with some serious rendering to hide something else that was there. I'm betting it was another set of bikers.

 

This is not to diminish Harry's work. I still think it is very good image, as I believe a pair of sixes would indicate. But as far as I'm concerned I think I would have picked one of the skaters.

First of all I would like to thank the people/person who did take care of making this image of me POW. There are so many great photographers with so many great images on this site that I am really very pleased and also surprised that the choice did fall on this image I did submit here. The image is nearly three years old and it's one of the first times I did do some cloning in PS. Never did alter anything since than on this image and as some of you already did see, the PS work (cloning) in the background (there is a white banner in the original wich did distract) is not realy the best one can make out of it. If I had to do it again now, I surely would have made a better job out of it, but as this site is one of making comments and suggestions on other peoples pictures, I did not make a better one to submit here and am glad that many of you did see the clumsy PS work I did on this one and point me on it. All in all this isn't realy one of my best images in my opinion, but I like the action in it and I do thank each and every one of you who did rate and made great comments. You are right, if I had to make a choice for POW in my portfolio, I would have choosen for an other image....Kindest regards from the Netherlands, Harry Eggens

Hi Harry.

 

Your picture is impressive but the thing i find even more impressive is your courteous and friendly manner when commenting or replying to others on PN.

 

I have enjoyed looking at your images over the last few days, but have not yet had time to comment on any. This picture though really captures the moment and conveys the energy and concentration involved in this sport. I agree there are better images in your folder but then i don't think the POW has to be the best picture in a folder but one that will stimulate some discussion as this one has. The cloning done sounds reasonable and i have no problem with PS removal of annoying items that could not be excluded at the time of exposure. As you have already found out many on PN have a very sharp eye and i'm sure your PS technique will only continue to go from strength to strength.

 

Cheers

Harry, you have my sympathies. :-)

 

This image in your portfolio offers a rare commparison between something that is dramatic and real and something that is unreal. Let's think about this. Where are they coming from? The shooting angle is fairly low. Did they somehow burst through a huge mountain of dirt which then closed behind them? Come on, people!

 

Even at f2.8, you expect to see a portion of the track that's sharp that extends across the frame. This almost looks like a seamless studio backdrop.

 

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2380261

 

This one is spectacular, yet got only one comment and scored a full point lower. You could sell this one, whereas the POW shot is just for fun on photo.net.

I didn't really notice the cloning, but then again, I wasn't looking that hard, mostly because I'm not particularly interested in sports action, but also because I took it for granted that it was unmanipulated. Sports images, to me, are somewhat akin to journalism, and so need to be held to a higher standard of accuracy.

 

 

I think a lot of us here tend to take PN images for granted, whether or not they've been cloned or altered in any way. For one thing, at monitor resolutions of 75dpi, you can get away with lots of mistakes that would be obvious if printed to photo quality on paper. Because of this, I view a PN image, which has been scrinted to a lower visual standard (75dpi) as a completely different genre of photography than a printed image, which must of necessity be of higher quality.

 

Actually, you have to be pretty bad to be spotted by everyone, so Harry's PS work is not without merit, since not everyone caught it. But, we all have to start somewhere. It'd be nice to see the unaltered orginal, just for comparison. From the looks of it, Harry was in the right place at the right time, and he was prepared for a great capture. Stuff in the background can't always be avoided at times like this.

I was lucky to see Harry's works a few years ago and since then it is the same - this photo proves what is wellknown:

Harry is excellent photographer wih sense for the right moment and exremely good skill

I think the use of PhotoShop in such a drastic manner is fine as long as the photograph is

presented as art and not photojournalism. But my photojournalism training was long ago

and as journalistic ethics go it might as well have been in a galaxy far, far away. I know

there was a fuss when Time doctored the OJ image to make him look like a deviant, but

haven't heard much since. I don't know what current journalistic ethics are regarding the

drastic alteration of an image. I suspect they are slippery.

 

As to this photo, I'm not sure what to say. It looks great at a glance, but once I notice the

cloning, I lose all interest. For a drastic alteration to work, in my opinion, it either has to

be purposely obvious or as close to invisible as possible.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not at all opposed to altering an image's content with PhotoShop

to tell a better story. PhotoShop is great for cleaning up little problems, but at some point

a flaw is so great that even the best retoucher cannot overcome it .

 

I guess in the end, this is one of those photos that came tantalizingly close to being great.

The original flaw is such that it can be masked with PhotoShop, but not overcome.

Don't stress on it Harry. It's a fun image. And you are a great sport.

personally, i find the image boring. we don't learn anything new about the subject - dirt

flying around during a motocross race is far from unique. yes, its well exposed and the

subject is isolated in the middle of the frame and dirt is in the air everywhere - but you

can follow all the rules and still not have a good photo.

totaly , completely awesome capture.....spot on in everything.....soperb

I really like the way you were there to get this photo. I think the photo itself could be better. It looks a bit unrealistic - the background and the colors. Of course, this could just be the scan b/c velvia is usually so nice.

no, its because none of the background is real. This is a photo-manipulation.

The photo is not all that interesting, is it? I went to the folder, hoping to be able to say a lot of nice things about the folder, or the entire portfolion, and I found some good animal shots--but mostly in zoos. Yes, the photographer is technically proficient, but the shot selection included here has very little redeeming value for me, and that is especially the case for the PoW, and I LIKE motorcycles. I'm sorry. I usually don't leave a lot of negative remarks. I just move on, but this time I feel compelled to offer a negative opinion.

I take it back. The "Freestyle Duo" shot is certainly worthy of PoW, and the bears catching salmon are also good. The other animal shots are good, but they would be more impressive had they been photographed in the wild.

Moderator note: as much fun as it may seem to digress, please keep the discussion focussed on this photograph. Critique, suggestions for improvement, perhaps using examples or (linking to) other photographs etc. are all welcome. Let's not steer off our track too much! Thank you.

Harry, would you mind uploading the original image, if you still have it?

No problem Lannie, just did a little cropping of the left side here, but no further alterations.

I like them both, Harry. The PoW is more aesthetically pleasing, but the original meets the strictest journalistic standards.

 

I have to say that the guy hanging off the sidecar is either crazy or extraordinarily brave.

Hope you don't mind this, Harry.

Or this, since the discussion has dropped off since all of the talk about cloning. . . .

I prefer the original and wish you had uploaded it earlier in the week. The discussion could have been quite revealing.

I'm sorry that I mislabeled these two, but everyone can clearly see which one was manipulated. I also wish that the discussion could get going again, now that we can see the original prior to manipulation. It is actually quite a good shot.

It is a quality of haunting sadness in this photograph that allows it to transcend others within the genre.

By all means do only what pleases you, the Artist. It is a great shot! But the cloning work, well, it's too much. The picture drowned in the Sea of flying dirt. Here is a idea you may be able to twist to your liking. Bill, Blackstar Arts...

"I like them both, Harry. The PoW is more aesthetically pleasing, but the original meets the strictest journalistic standards. "

 

I like the original - it adds depth and authenticity -