single photos Dune Fence

Calm before a storm. . . . .

Nice elements to make a great shot.. I love the clours in this pic and the picket fence (just wonder if a different angle .. probably a bit lower would have helped this shot)

 

Great shot!!!

I love the light in this picture, the sky is so foreboding but the dune is well lit. Very nice.

I have decided to take up your invitation Carl. My modus operandi is quite straight forward I will explain to you on this image - I will delete said explanation at your request at any time as really this is an OT comment as far as critique of this image is concerned.

I ususally look at a person's portfolio as a whole quickly. I let my eyes move from thumbnail to thumbnail - much like an expert sight reader would ( I am sure you would be familiar with the expression) would flick through a score.

My eyes usually tell me if anything is worth clicking on. I click if this happens. I clicked on this image. This image is very different and very similar to my eye after spending less than a minute glancing through your thummbnails I see a number of repeated elements in your portfolio, in this camera club section.

I will have to reserve comment Carl as I will need some time to appreciate your work. There is depth and planning in your work. This image in particular is worthy of consideration and comment, I will comment on this image after I have studied your other work in this folder.

A good choice for discussion. Looking forward to it.

Me too!

Well, come on Matt. You want critiques? Have at it yourself. I'll trade you.

Carl - I have glanced through your camera club winners (I like the title)

my first observation is that there is one photograph that is odd and doesn't belong in the folder - save for the fact ( I take your word for it) that it too was a winner.

There is a lot of creative repetition of material here Carl. Steps and Series in every shot except the arches (the odd one out). I choose to look outside this folder now before I make my critique on the dunes.

I wish I had the shots on paper in front of me - my conclusions and observations are usually aided by a physical shuffling and reshuffling of the deck and a sharing of this shuffling with presenters. Never mind I find the exercise interesting. Feel free to comment as I go. Portfolio reviews are usually interactive.

More people in line waiting for Gorge comments on this one :). This is quite interesting image Carl and quite different from other in this folder, I like the mood it shows a lot. Something is bothering me about bottom ----- I made a mistake to go back and read the comments when writing now - but I am not sure if it is an angle. Best regards, Mark

Funny, I thought this would have been the odd one out since I do very few landscapes. The 'arches' shot is a found abstract with an emphasis on lines, my stock in trade, although straight lines are easier for me to see and it's a balance rather than rhythm shot.

 

Anyway, back to this one. I'm going to try to upload what I hope will be a slightly improved version.

I agree that there is a mood here that you have created, Carl, it gives me a feeling of desertion or lonliness.

 

After viewing both versions, I think the original upload is best partly because ver 2 looks too dark, and it is unclear whether we're looking at dark snow or pale sand. In fact I'm still unsure but I think it is snow, however, your title makes me think it could be sand.

 

Compositionally and aesthetically it is OK imo, and its a good shot of an interesting scene - but I can't say that anything makes me saw ooh or aww. I think all elements that you've included in the frame serve a purpose and are vital - the slightly rolling hills, the grasses, the fence, and the beautiful blue sky. I also enjoy the visual division into thirds that you've created. I'm giving it A 5/7, O 5/7.

 

How do I think it could be improved? Well, I really like as is, I mean, its a good shot with a cool mood to it. I would only wonder what it might look like if we could see more of the fence - if you moved a little closer to it, and looked to the left more - we might see how it stretches into the distance, up and down the "dunes"...

Yeah, now George might be tempted to simply echo your observations, although I doubt it. I'll wait and give him a chance.

 

Go find another one. :-)

Since you asked me to join in this discussion, I did. I hope not to disappoint you too much, but I am not very impressed by this image personally, and found the other 2 images of yours I commented on earlier MUCH more yours and much more interesting as well, in so many ways.

 

In short, I feel in the first place that this image lacks a bit of contrast on my monitor here - which isn't mine by the way, so I'm unsure.

 

Besides that, the subject is very expected, and the straight on angle really doesn't grab my attention. This image just doesn't move me at all in any way. I see it as a clean snap, decently framed, no more and no less.

Of course Carl, you are bothered by my selection of this image out of your folder titled Camera Club Winner. This one was taken by you, made by you, presented and apparently won for you. and yet you are 'bothered', one visit - and you want to post another version.

Interesting, think about it..I'll help you understand why..

I chose this image to look at because it was sufficiently different so as to allow for extracted generalisation about your other Camera Club Winners. BTW - I think these clubs are excellent institutions and have no personal like or dislike of these places _ I am a regular invitee to some of the larger equivalents.

Now as for your image above.

The fence is of course the linking thematic motiff betwen this image and many of the others where one sees a strong line or lines sometimes in abstract sometimes abstract in effect ( eg piano wires/piano keys/red lines in the blue abstract/even stepped patterns in teh harley Davids shot (look carefully)) I read you are a piano tuner - I am not surprised that you see and feel significance in tensioned lines - they produce beautiful music after all. This tension is a running motif in your work. Sometimes expressed as a strong apposite in choice of colour/texture - sometimes expressed as competing rythms in the framing of your shots.

This image is interesting because you dont like it much. The problem with the image is that the fence line (repeated lines/strokes/steps/) are overshadowed by the other elements in the shot. I see you thinking - hmmm I have some good lines here, I have a colour and textural contrast difference between the fence and the white sands. I have some interesting light and some abstracted tufts....but you dont like this image - because really , it doesn't work at the strong and tight compositional level which you fancy. Everything is loose. Everything recedes into looseness - by your own standards - pretty ordinary.

How would I (if i were you) go about making this image? probably an aerial shot might interest you in capturing landscapes in abstract form. This would eliminate the horrid sky which destroys any postives in the composition. You see you like and are quite good at flat perspectives/ singular planes/ you are comfortable in this 'space'.

Have you seen any aerial shots done in this fashion? They can be quite beautiful.

Less inconvenient than chartering a plane - would be the standard closeup play of fence against sand with some grasss thrown in..

So my point is that it isnt enough to focus on what you are natively comfortable with and then seek to make a composition out of - the fence doesnt work as a line in this image - because in this image it is just a fence - there is no POV, there is nothing except...a horrid sky...and a lot of 'stuff' thrown in under it.

Too loose . I could go on - but then we would be entering didactic mode - like you have a strong diagonal from bottom right to mid left - this could be top left leading to bottom right - you could tilt the image and thus flatten planes increasing the abstract if you made the diagonal stronger...you could also eliminate a lot of the sky whilst maintaing that stormy light...but all these things are just playing with not much..

Yes I agree with you - you should be uncomfortable with it.

If you were sitting with me whilst I was shuffling these into piles this one woudl go into a pile on the side...you would ask me about this one eventually - and I would say - it is crap and you know it - of course if I was to say something as obvious as this on here - I may get banned.

One final thought for you - if you think one can critique ONE image then you are a far better critic than any I know. One image critique is not critique it is training. I dont train.

You should be ashamed of your childish behaviour btw - you passed judgement on a person without any context or background and without asking any questions. I will remove that final comment if you ask as it is OT to this pic.

Yes, you should get rid of that last comment, as I will get rid of this paragraph in due course. We all make judgements based on such data as is available and hopefully have the capacity to change our views when we have more to go on. Your critique is indeed heads above what most on this site are capable of, but you would do well to fight your condescending attitude. I get sucked into that myself sometimes, so I understand the tendency. Now to the image.

 

The aerial view is a good idea. Check my 'favorites' and you'll find a couple landscape images shot from a kite that are truly outstanding.

 

I don't recall saying that I didn't like this. It is atypical, even with the strong line comprised of rhythmic elements. The reason I uploaded a quick alternative is that the jpeg conversion changed this more than I expected, which is problematic since this is easily the hardest image to print in my 'portfolio'. I ended up with a print that is somewhat darker than the inline version. Incidentally, this is the only image that I've uploaded three times. The darker versions bombed.

 

Three of my colleagues in the club, all professionals, think this is my best shot, yet they differ in their opinions on how it should be printed. I find this version to be a bit flat and am willing to sacrifice some detail in the shadows in order to emphasize the 'red against blue' reading of the image which, along with the sky, is its' strongest feature. I've been told that my approach to dealing with highlights in jpegs is way too conservative, but when printed correctly, the eye is drawn to the top center and especially the dip in the horizon line.

 

In addition to the fence line and sky, I was drawn to the undulating horizon line, the red grass against the blue sky, and the small fence dead center. This is actually a crop of the original which extended further toward the top and left where the fence ended, turning back along the horizon. There was too much sand, though, which I consider to be a weak point, especially with the footprints, even though the bit of grass breaks it up somewhat.

 

On the more general topic of portfolio reviews, you're the only person I can recall in the two years I've been here who wants to discuss portfolios exclusively rather than individual images. It's a good idea, actually, but as I noted in my feedback post, we're not set up for it, the obvious point being that if I wanted a portfolio review, I would be the one to decide which images to present and it would be a couple dozen, not several hundred. This one probably wouldn't be included.

In rereading your critique, I have to wonder why you picked this image - 'crap' in your words - when I asked you to pick the image in my portfolio that you liked best. Don't you think there's a benefit to the site and to me to find something you think is representative and explain how it works in the context of the larger body of work? . . . . . . or are you only looking for things you don't like?

I chose this image because it had a lot of potential that wan't realised - it represented fairly new territory for you and it didnt work as well as many of your other stronger images.

Thinking about the why's was interesting for me - I thought it may be interesting to you. I have read your reply carefully - I dont think you unerstand this image very well. I know it may sound strange to you that I say this - but I really dont think you understand this image. You understand your images very well. You are a person to whom control and order are very important. This image stretched the boundaries of this natural predisposiiton. That is why I found this image interesting within the context of teh work displayed in this folder.

As I have said in the site feedback forum, I dont do single image critiques - this is usually training and I dont train.

Relative to examples of abstracted landscape that I am familiar with I would rate this slightly less than bad - relative to PN standards, I suppose you could put any number above good you choose - whatever makes you happy.

If I understand you, you're saying that I'm forcing a genre that I don't usually explore into a relatively more graphic approach that works better for most of my other work. At the risk of over simplifying, I think you want the fence to be a leading line, and it really isn't. It's simply one of the two lines of demarcation between the three dominant shapes that define the arrangement of a balance shot, to use Freeman Patterson's term. I understand that there are other ways this scene could have been shot, but at the risk of sounding defensive, what would you say to my three professional colleagues - let's leave out the judge who picked it - who think this is my best shot? What do you think they're looking at?

 

YOU named the photo 'dune fence' and whether you like it or not it is a leading line - yes there is a dune top line as well and neither leads anywhere. What the 'lines' are doing is defining what you were TRYING to do. But the there demarcating 'sections' are only demarcated by lines. In teh context of your picture here You ARE forcing a 2D perspective (space enclosure in this instance) on a 3D pic it doesn't work.

As for your three professional friends and the 'judge' who awarded you a winner - I am not making an observation about the context of your 'successes' ...if these people think that THIS is your BEST work...and you really believe them - then you are being badly misled -

At any rate what I see is an attempt to push a flat perspective compositional idea into a three dimensional scene where light and colour (let alone content) are fighting the composition AND idea (ie intent)- this is why it is not a strong composition.

What were they looking at ? How would I know ? How can I answer a question without context - I wasn't there.

at any rate you are seeking to justify something here by reference to things/people/concepts I can't see. This negates my critique in your eyes - and this is fine. A rejection is meaningful and can have value. Geoerge

You've pretty much repeated my own analysis, so we've got the 'I don't understand my own image' idea out of the way.

 

If some people do like it, one could make the case that they see something that you don't. I think it's the weather that creates a mood and the color palatte emphasized in a darker and slightly more color saturated print. But enough about this image.

 

I've never encountered anyone on this site who was so reluctant to show us images that he liked. Take your time. Go through lots of 'favorites' pages and you should be able to find twenty 'very good' images on this site. Start with *[* Z, aka Bailey Seals.

Carl - I am a relatively new member here. I have come a cross many many many fine images. You invited me to crtique an image of yours. I carefully explained how I ussually go about this process. I think you are seeking to extract an argument from me - I am sorry I am not interetsed in arguing. I think you have made many fine images - THIS image was chosen because you were trying somethign different and I wanted to help you see why THIS ne doesn't work.. Please stop harassing me, it is strange to invite someone to give feedback and then to try and make something else out of it.

very sad.

This is my image. You may leave any time you like.

 

There was a condition on my invitiation. I asked you to pick the image you liked best and explain for everyone's benefit why it worked. That can be useful as a stand alone analysis or in the context of another group of images, which seems to be your preference. I'm wondering why you chose to ignore my request. but I don't expect an answer and we'll just consider it rhetorical, shall we?

Carl - you are not but sometimes you act as if you were an ass.

Kent, go to the forum thread where all this started and you will see that Carl clearly asked George to rate a photo that he liked BEST, not least.

 

George did not do that, and has found a number of insidious ways to insult Carl, and has managed to recruit you into his strange cause.

 

I'm not sure if the problem here is an inability to read, or an unwillingness to think, but something has definitely gone awry here. CARL HAS BENT OVER BACKWARDS TO BE CIVIL TO THIS GUY.

 

Read, Kent! Read!

Carl, I see that, when you put this up for critique, you wrote, "Calm Before the Storm."

 

Who knew?