'Capa's Credo'

Comparing the two versions, the last one looks a bit grey to me.

The feeling of over-processing compared to the first version is less, maybe brighten it up and add some contrast with a curves adjustment layer? In the histogram, ignore the white peak to the right (obviously no need for details in the upper right corner)

Just a little adjustment in curves with the second small jpeg:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/vondel/900000001145-5-16-2012-marshrutka-kyiv-maidan-kreshatyk-concert-etc.jpg

Not the best result ever, but imo more balanced than version 2.

Good luck, Theo

I think your job is masterful considering what there was to work with - the darkness and all of the original capture and its being ISO 800.  Good enough quality original capture within its limits, but nothing to brag about.

I'm enclosing a version of your worked up version work here, for viewers to see, so people can see MY work with YOUR processing which shows MY work to YOUR best talent . . . . a good marriage, and one I cannot achieve with my limited Photoshop skills, though they're improving greatly.

Thanks so much!

john

John (Crosley)

One caveat; I'd like to see this version be able to take more contrast, and in effect look more film-like.

If it had been bright sun and ISO 200 (as not much earlier in the afternoon), it would surely have been possible, but I had to increase the ISO to allow a faster shutter speed and also account for ominous thunder clouds overhead, darkening everything, then these guys were in shadow of stage equipment and each other.

Anybody else want to try?

john

John (Crosley)

They are ugly and the scene is unique; Excellent job...

Your view that they are 'ugly' is interesting to me, and also possibly unique and unexpected.

Thanks for the compliment.

I never know when I go out if I'll return with something like this; it rewards me when I get some extra chutzpah, and there's a scene ripe for someone to wade in like I did.

john

John (Crosley)

ugly is in the mind of the beholder

Since I first saw them with short haircuts and so thin, I thought of early photos (not so emaciated) of Nazi slave laborers, like the Poles or other nationalities or their prisoners of war (even concentration camp victims before they had been massively starved, as I had seen in photos at Dachau during my three visits there).

The similarity is NOT simplistic either, between this and the photos of the freed Nazi captives, although not the concentration camp victims as they were at death's door, and these are better fed men, strong and lean.

No matter what, and I know I am treading on chancy ground, there is a certain evocative feeling with this photo and historical photos from the end of World War II, for which I'll make no excuse.

(By so analogizing, I am not minimizing in any way the horrible atrocities suffered by the Jews, homosexuals, gypsies (Romany) and others who were starved to death and/or starved then exterminated - this photo just brings wartime end photos to mind, that's all, though it is not precisely analogous in any way.)

john

John (Crosley)

Although this exemplifies "Capa's Credo", closeness in and of itself does not guarantee a good (or great) photograph.  It requires that special something, that immersion (of both the photographer and the viewer) in a singular moment.  This has that special something, that immersion, in spades.  Wonderful.  Not that you need me to tell you that.

Of course closeness is not everything.  Composition and interesting subjects count for a lot, particularly in, say, this photo.  

I'm glad this one has your approval; it's about as spontaneous a photo as I've ever taken, and I'm very proud of it.  Notice than none are obese; they're Ukrainians; the women are similarly thin.

Thanks for kind words for a favorite photo.

john

John (Crosley)

Intoxicating photo. I've seen it quite a few times now, and each time I keep going back to it. It appeals to a wide range of emotions - the innocent looking laugh on the left is charming, dear... the fanatical shingin eyes on the right are kind of scary and make me wonder what boys we're looking at (in many countries, the hairstyle would point to ultra-right sympathy, but I do not know the Ukrain nearly well enough to say whether that would be the case here). It's got a push-pull effect like that, which to me is really interesting. Next to that, it has a directness - it appeals straight to the viewer. Nothing subtle, a visual sledge hammer asking my attention. I like that, it has something unescapable.

The true hommage to Capa's Credo here isn't in the physical (lack of) distance, but in how this photo is close in capturing and transmitting emotions. You were close enough because I can only imagine you opened up to them, and they let you in. That's, in my humble opinion, a whole lot more important that standing at 1 ft with a wide angle ;-)

I can fully imagine you list this one in your top 100 favourites. It's got a well-deserved place there.

__

As for the post-processing, I find an image as strong as this one doesn't need discussion on it. This image communicates, clearly and unmissable. More contrast or a different blackpoint will not change the image. And point in case: to me, the later posted versions add nothing to the one originally posted. It already worked more than well enough.

I have greatly enjoyed your critique and read it many times.

I don't think above I noted above HOW I drew these young men in.

I approached them with a smile, my camera, and treated them as a group, and introduced myself in the most basic Russian telling them 'my name is John, I am a photographer; and in the most basic Russian continued 'I am an old fart' which caused raucous laughter.

As I photographed and they laughed and tightened together to peer into my lens, at one point I just shoved the whole claque together backwards away from my lens with my left (free) hand, which is shown here.

In essence, I am pushing them away from me as they are trying to approach me, something amazingly unexpected from them, and to which they react with great genuineness, shown here.

That's part of the secret of how I approached these guys AND achieved this particularly closeness to them.

They were enjoying ME genuinely, and it is shown well in the captures, and in return I had a greatly enjoyable time, and finally so did almost everyone around us.

There were several pro photographers around taking their photos, and I can guarantee none got any photo 1/10th as good as this.

You can be assured your critique and comment have earned a well deserved place in my heart.

Thanks so much.

john

John (Crosley)

I have nothing of substance to add to the comments here, but this is an image that has always stood out for me.  If nothing else I can be added to a long list of people who admire and appreciate your photograph.  I was driving from home today, thinking about getting close (I sometimes take photos from my car, and of course, one cannot get very close to a subject on the street or sidewalk from such a position) and it was this image which popped into my mind.  It is truly wonderful and even more enjoyable after reading about what was going on while you took it.

Thanks so much.

Don't feel inadequate for taking images from your car.

I do too and have taken some of my most wonderful from my car, usually with a zoom telephoto.

Consider this one:  http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3014537&size=lg

I've been told it's worthy of the best of galleries or museums.

Or this one, a tele (200 mm fully extended zoom with a 1.7 tele-extender):

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=4798297&size=lg

Maybe this one:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6028333&size=lg

The list just goes on and on.

The point is not just to 'get in close' but to frame the subject(s) to bring them into a worthy composition.  If that means getting in close, as above, all the better if that's in your genes or you can work up your gumption, but most people have to work their way up to it -- and I have a unique background, plus people naturally give me some leeway because of the way I carry myself with my years of experience which they did not especially when I joined Photo.net nine years ago.

Just take great photos, and don't worry about anything else or feeling envious or jealous.  Make your own style.  Sooner or later, you'll radiate that 'feeling' or 'air' about you that says 'I've arrived as a photographer',  and people will part like the 'Red Sea' when you arrive, giving you deference (sometimes).  And ask you stupid questions like 'are you a photographer?' after viewing you with two cameras and lenses slung across your neck and shoulders (just to break the ice really and to have an excuse to speak to you . . . . for they are impressed, and you then are seen as 'something special and unusual' for them whether you know it or not.)

Just keep watching and critiquing and most of all shooting, and sooner or later it'll probably happen if not already.

And thanks for the fine compliment.  I share my techniques knowing that they'll help. 

Who wants to take such things to the grave, even if they step on other photographer's 'ethical toes'?

After all, who ever heard of simultaneously pushing over a friendly claque of youths and photographing them as you did? 

I did.

The results are above.

I'm proud of the results (two great photos), and may yet do it again if the opportunity presents itself, or do something else equally outrageous.

;~))

john

John (Crosley)

I just saw this photo and it jumped out at me! Before I even knew you were for sure the photographer, I thought it had to be yours - it has your signature written all over it! I quickly skimmed down the page just to leave my initial thoughts and congrats when I was struck by the word "ugly" in bold type and was drawn to read why anyone would have a comment like that to leave. I do not understand how anyone can find smiles and joy to be ugly. This is a wonderful photograph with infectious smiles - to view it makes one smile and to feel grateful to be alive! I don't need to know the story behind it to feel the moment. Wonderful work! Beautiful photograph! Thank you for sharing. :)

Thank you so much for such a heart-felt comment.

This photo is a joy of mine, right from the moment of taking.

I presume you read how it came about and what fun it was to 'create' this fun work, with its impromptu expressions, coaxed a little by a gentle shove.

For me it puts the lie to those who urge that 'street' must always be surreptitious or clandestine.  I feel that revealing one's photography is discretionary to the circumstances, but harder with a very wide angle lens up very close, as here.  I was within almost minimum focusing distance of this group, and what you see not only is their smiles but their happiness and delight at our cross-generational and unexpected interaction.

;~))

Smiles to you with special thanks.

john

John (Crosley)