'Twenty Years of Drugs and Clean'

Please notice, this was taken in America, not Ukraine and this week.

I am an equal-opportunity photographer of people who are extremely interesting regardless of circumstances -- rich, poor, sex, sexual orientation.

I do NOT set out to take photos of the poor, the homeless, the drunks and the down and outs of this world - look at my portfolio and the great number of youths kissing, for instance.

In fact, look in my portfolio for a view of the totality of 'LIFE'.

This is just one aspect of 'life' -- those who would advocate censoring such views, in Ukraine or America are those who grew up on Disney cartoons and want the world to resemble them, but Disney movie themes thrived on contrasts -- remember the beautiful princess and the evil witch stepmother - pervasive in several of the Disney films?

Disney knew about contrasts and how they accentuate things and aid storytelling.

It's just that his heroines were all white, 'soft' and seen as 'good' and heroes and heroines.

I show that those he depicted as heartless witches and others were 'just people' with parts of those in common with the rest of us . . . . there but for the grace of God, for some of my subjects, goes us.

Thanks, Svetlana.

With your newfound prominence here, nice of you to find time to stop by ;~))

john

John (Crosley)

Like fingernails on a chalkboard, the double negative makes me want to yell "Stop"!

I even heard an off the charts double negative x two one day! "I ain't got no more so don't ask me for no more"! In my opinion, the speaker/writer of the double negative is the one that is verbose :)

Overy verbose is like saying overly alive. I think some of us use more words as we have or find the best words to best describe our thoughts, where others, use only enough to get their message across. Without verbose people we would never have wonderful books to read, plays to watch and poems/prose to make our thoughts wander.

deb

And the concensus of opinion . . . . '

I once wrote for a living, and even that one got past others' editors sometimes.

That was mom's favorite.

And hence for a lifetime since I've been 'aware' I've heard it so many times . . . . from the most respected sources, even in the highly literate radio and TV press - even NPR, of all places.

john

John (Crosley)

Yes, some of us inflict so much damage on ourselves that the best we can do is experience a spiritual and emotional recovery but the physical scars won't go away. Nonetheless, a miracle has still occurred. GJ

Wow!  I like the use of black and white.  The composition.  The variety of textures.  I like even like the reflections in the window in this photograph.  this images has a lot to say.  Fantastic job!

I think this woman might agree -- a miracle indeed.

I know for sure she appreciates her newer status in life and is proud of it.

We spoke of it briefly.

Her pride was obvious, it not spoken of at length.

Well noted, GJ.

john

John (Crosley)

You make four (perhaps five?) different points very well.

I am very pleased with your comment; it looks pretty good in color too, but this was made for black and white.

Thanks for a well-thought out comment.

john

John (Crosley)

What strikes me the most is her expression. The way I read it is that she reached that stage in life where she realizes that there is no Santa Claus, that this is as good as it gets, and she is now content with that. There seems to be a lot of wisdom in her face - hard times sometimes help in that category. She also looks very lonely. Of course, I could be way off.

I like emotional photos, and this one fits that well.

I'm very interested in your comment.

In part, because I have influenced it a little by my caption (title) and brief introduction in the Request for Critique, plus my commentary.

How would you think about it if you saw it without commentary - none at all?

I'm curious.

I am told that photos should stand on their own, unless as part of a 'story' and thus illustrating the story. 

I think my photos may work both ways, but I invite you (and others) to comment on that question and this seems the perfect photo to present with that point.

I choose my own forum rather than a PN forum so there is no 'moderator' except myself, and I exercise my duties as moderator using the utmost of liberalness.  I would like to foster great discussion on questions that interest me that may interest others on Photo.net, and of course my photos and comments thereon are long known as a launching pad for thorough and often enjoyable and often very far-reaching and ranging discussions.

There really is little 'off-topic' and tangents are allowed, in general, as long as posters do so in good faith and with some intent to 'help' rather than hinder (good faith re-defined?).

The question is not just to you, but to all who see this question.

Of course, anyone who wants to comment doesn't have to read the request for critique or the 'facts' or 'assertions' therein if they don't want to consider the 'facts', but it's a little difficult.

I could post without any explanation and thus let all raters consider a photo entirely 'on its own' with no influence -- no story or 'back story'.

I'm curious about how you (and others) feel.

I too like 'emotional photos' though I also like ones with great composition as well and the top photo may have great emotion and top composition as well -- however rare.

Thanks Sid for your comment.

john

John (Crosley)

John, the vast majority of my photos are posted without a title or commentary. Some photos though, I think need a commentary. I find myself wishing that the person would explain many of the photos.

I have a couple of photojournalism books with photos in cronological order, dating back to the 1800's. Every photo in these books have a commentary, which I think is required. You need to know the situation, who is in the photo, what they are doing. Is this in a war? Is this during the depression?

For a lot of photo's though posted on this site, including mine, I don't see a need for a title or commentary. These include someone walking past an interesting background. There may be an interesting contrast or similarity between the person and the background, but not necessarily a story.

What I often do is add a commentary after the fact, many times, but not always, in response to a viewers request.

Regarging your photo, if you didn't add a title or commentary, I believe that my wiewpoint would have been similar - you can see it in her face, her hair, her clothing, and the background.

In one regard, this photo has  been VERY successful in generating comments; 36 so far, with about half being mine (as usual), and being already third for the week in comments after one day's posting.

I suggest that has something to do with the image and something to do with a 'come from behind' caption indicating this woman, scarred by her battles with substance (aged from drugs/tobacco or?), and has somewhat triumphed over her adversity.

In other words, the words I have added have added some substantial amount to the 'interest' that others have shown in the 'story' being told, other than through the photo itself -- it's a story with 'classic appeal' to Americans.

Would it be different if the caption said nothing, or if perversely it said 'drug free all her life, anorexic and bulemic woman becomes an addict too?' or something on that order?

I think the 'story' from the words has influenced the comments and the 'intensity' of viewer interest of those who choose to click, but probably not too much those who do not click, and in fact, some potential curious clickers, may have had the mystery (and their reason for potentially clicking) taken away because my request for critique answered their question or even repelled them. 

Some people want 'feel good' photos with 'prettyness' and not 'good stories' or even 'interesting stories' especially if the woman looks a little 'hard and hardened' by life instead of say a glamour model shown with her tits exposed and looking 'available'.

There's a place here for both kinds of photos and many more; and, truth be told, I'm also a sucker for a pretty girl ('they're almost all different', in the words of Elvis Presley in his early years as reported by actor/director/photographer/writer Dennis Hopper, and in my opinion are to be celebrated by many males, me included.

But for my photography I like taking a hard-hitting photo from time to time, and this is one.

But my photos are mostly ad hoc and depend on whom I encounter and where I am; with almost no preplanning, hence the wide diversity in 'street' that you see.

(I didn't take photos much during decades I lived in the suburbs; I failed to see the 'potential' that others have seen in documenting 'pool parties, barbecues, block parties, 'the office' and other such things that are also ripe for 'social comment' -- and had a wife who didn't appreciate my photography much or at all, though it had attracted her to me. -- interesting, hunh?)

I probably will never take a similar photo again, but I'll bet I'll take another photo that is 'strong' in which you recognize my 'style' at work.

(I take others photos that I don't post, or not for now at least, as they are contrary to expectations . . . . John Peri reports he takes children's photos, but doesn't post them - he doesn't want to confuse his viewers, and justifiably so (and a good, cautious thing also, I think).

I'm interested that you think your reaction would have been almost the same, with or without the commentary (if I read you correctly), but that for older photos you think that explanatory captions are more than helpful.

What do you do if you peruse a book of Henri Cartier-Bresson who (to my experience) has never published with captions in his 'photo' books, even leaving the place and date to the back of the books, most usually in  separate pages/tables?

(thanks for responding so quickly)

john

John (Crosley)

Interesting composition

Best regards

Xavier Corcobado

xcorcobado.blogspot.com

Thank you for stopping by.

john

John (Crosley)

I think this is a wonderful character study.  She's really been through a lot.  One thing you might consider though.  The car and the bottle distract from her.  Maybe you can crop out the bottle.  I'm not quite sure how that fits into the picture.  Nice shot. Alan.

Alan, you are certainly absolutely right about the bottle right bottom, which she used to carry personal water or juice.  In a perfect world, that bottle would not be in the frame.

However, to crop it out would mean cropping out the entire right side of the frame, placing her and the door in a different part of the photo and destroy the entire composition's balance.

You (I) only get one chance usually to frame a photo such as this, and if allowance is not made for such things as a distracting bottle, right bottom, then the answer is to live with it.

I don't clone such things out.  To crop it out, means cropping the right side, destroying the 'balance' and thus ruining in my eyes the entire composition, which for me has exquisite compositional balance. 

Throw any one thing out of 'whack' by altering this side or the other, such as by cropping, and the photo becomes less interesting for its 'artistic' merit as a composition, though the subject may remain as compelling.

I might have changed the saturation of the water bottle a little, darkened it so it blends in more, but why?  This photo with your and my comment in return already has about 40 comments and is a leader for this week and is a critical success.

Why mess with the ju-ju?

In a perfect world, we have a black water bottle and it's entirely within the frame, or entirely outside the frame, but the world ain't perfect.

This is a desaturated color photo, and Nikon Matrix Metering, faced with daylight reflecting in the window strongly, figured it should be a very bright photo, so the car (and truck) across the street are shown in the color and desaturated version before work as being VERY BRIGHT.

I worked on this and darkened the photo considerably, for obvious reasons, and kept in the car and truck to show her presence on the 'street' - not that being on a physical 'street' is a prerequisite for a photo to be denominated 'street' but it places it more in context.

I might have darkened then changed contrast on the car somewhat, and may still, but again, why mess with the ju-ju?

In fact, it may add 'depth' to the photo, and draw your eye into the photo - convincing your brain that this scene is in three dimensions, not two.

Had you thought of that?

I did.

That's partly why I have a policy of trying to keep intervention on my better shots to a minimum.  Same for every shot.  I almost never clone, except for dust spots, etc., and even mostly not even for pimples, even on a nude . . . . .

People have expectations of finding what I captured not messed up with 'image editing' I think, or they should have, and if they can improve an image, they can offer suggestions and sometimes they are so wonderful, I ask myself 'why didn't I do that?'

Other times, I post things purposely not worked up to their fullest to get suggestions that might be obviated by my own interpretation and am sometimes greeted here and there by a great improvement suggestion I had overlooked.

Best to post here more natural, then if it's headed for a museum, talk with a printer, a curator and one's gallerist for suggestions (not yet, but I hope).

(actually my work was curated not too long ago, and there was nothing but encouragement -- 'exhibit at the highest levels -- galleries and museums and not only photo galleries but some work belongs in 'art museums' all of the highest caliber, I was told by a photography star and guru.

But I'm shy . . . . . and still have trouble wondering 'do I belong?' and 'what if I get rejected?'

But then again,  Van Gogh was rejected,  time and gain and was more than a little crazy anyway and maybe even a pervert.

Read his biography just in Wickipedia, and find he was producing masterpieces very early but not recognized, when he was known by no one and couldn't get a job or keep a job doing anything, and seemed always to be getting into sexual troubles of one sort or another or behaving outrageously and apparently offensively.

Luckily (or perversely perhaps) I don't have such things working (for or against) me.

People have different expectations of 'artists' -- the old 'starving artists' cliché, has more than a bit of truth in it and people may dismiss others' who have artistic aspirations unless they have the 'look, feel, and smell' they expect of an 'artist'.  Pinstripe suits were not expected of Jasper Johns.

Even Cartier-Bresson recalls as a youth seeing a very disreputable man knocking on a neighbor's gate, only to be told by his father or uncle (an artist) later that the disreputable man was a famous artist hawking his wares to a wealthy patron neighbor.  (Source, unauthorized biography of Cartier-Bresson, from memory, not re-researched).

I took a series of this woman and some were technically far more proficient than this one, all by walking up to her at a bus stop while I transferred buses, as she did also.  Funny about life, hunh? If you don't do or ask, you don't get.  How many PN members would do the same thing?  I do all the time, and my gallery is full of one or two minute wonders.

This (and others) were exposed at 1/10th of a second; my camera had been set for great depth of field for something else and I hadn't readjusted to more shallow depth of field and a faster shutter speed, and it's at max quality ISO -- 200 -- but of course the shutter speed was very low to compensate on a very cloudy, dark late afternoon.

Other captures were of far greater technical quality and sharpness, but this one had 'it'.

I guess I needn't say more.

I may show others of the five minute series -- a portrait perhaps -- at some far future time when memory of this is a mere glimmer, as the portraits were quite good and especially in color (one eye is bright blue with cataracts, the other brown or hazel).

Please look at this photo again and see if the background vehicles don't add 'depth' that gives 'dimensionality' to this photo . . . . . and now 'toned down' greatly, if it isn't a good enough exposition . . . . and darkening them or changing their contrast to minimize them might in fact detract from the photo's ju-ju.

If you wish.

Thanks for a very thoughtful comment.

john

John (Crosley)

This woman's face and hat are mostly white and white and black within a framework of darkness.

She also is mostly contained within the framework of the right doorway.

The left doorway, more in the center, has some old lettering, illegible (thankfully and mysteriously), also in white, also surrounded by black.

I feel the two are complementary and aid in the composition; it's partly why I framed this shot, taken in less than one or two seconds, this way.

I make quick/snap judgments/decisions when I shoot, and they're pretty intuitive;  it's fun later to figure out 'why' I did what I did.

I understand on looking at this, that's why this is framed so.

john

John (Crosley)

Estas fotos tan cercanas, siempre dejan maravillosos detalles para el espectador.

Saludos.

Qué tan cerca de llegar a mis temas siempre es una preocupación, ya que les revela a menudo si no hago uso de su foto (no siempre, pero a menudo).

Con un tema dispuesto, a quien me encontré mientras caminaba por la acera, mientras que se detuvo un autobús, que tenía más remedio que ser "de cerca", lo que fue mi elección.

Todo salió bien porque estaba 'dispuesto' y si había objeciones, creo que también estaba un poco encantados de que estaba siendo señalado por un fotógrafo de 'estudio', así que no había un equilibrio existe en su mente, y yo resuelto rápidamente por romperse mi disparador.

Pronto el autobús llegó, ella y yo desaparecido, y que era el final.

Así es como está en la calle.

Estoy muy contento de que te haya gustado.

********

In English (I hope)

How close to get to my subjects always is a concern, as it reveals to them often whether or not I am taking their photo (not always, but often).

With a willing subject, whom I came upon while walking on the sidewalk, while stopped for a bus, I had little choice but to be 'up close', so that was my choice.

It worked out well because she was 'willing' and if she had objections, I think also she was a little delighted she was being singled out by a photographer for a 'study', so there was a balance there in her mind, and I resolved it quickly by snapping my shutter.

Soon the bus came, she and I both disappeared, and that was the end.

That's how it is on the street.

I'm very glad you liked it.

Muy Gracias,

juan

John (Crosley)