Dog walker at sunrise

Note to John A: I think your comment is uncalled for. I suppose you may have been challenging the POW to stretch his creativity; we can all use a bit of motivation from time to time, but you aren't adding value to his experience or anyone else's by being condescending. I looked at your website and think you too should stretch out and really try something different.

@ Bill

The reason a cliche is a cliche is generally because it is done a lot and it is done a lot because people like it! Because people like it doesn't make it good. It can be and I do believe I said that I felt that Tim's image was well done, just that I thought it didn't represent his best work and that it is not the type of photo I would put in my own portfolio. But Tim has described his own work and photographic motivation very well and from his perspective the image makes sense to be in his portfolio. Would this image be appropriate in a commercial or fine art photographer's portfolio--probably not!

This is a learning site and since there are many beginners here and folks aspiring to different goals, I think different opinions are of value, especially ones that offer philosophical differences. Those can be as important as how to make an image better or different.

Beyond that, I think that it is important to once in awhile make a call to excellence, to remind folks to really look at their on-line portfolios and see if it really makes sense for them--is it really what they want representing their work or have they moved beyond those old images or is it time to push themselves a bit (such is different for each). It is up to each individual what they do with things like this, but I see no harm in bringing the thought to the fore. In the end, it is important that we know what we are doing, as Tim so perfectly put it for himself: "I am guilty John, I have about fifteen hundred photos posted here and I couldn't tell you which are my best. I am a serious amateur photographer though and I think it's fun and rewarding to share with the viewers my photos of the Milwaukee area. I am not a post-modern/conceptual kind of guy, I just walk around and take a lot of pictures."

So is my comment uncalled for? I don't think so, it brought a different perspective to the image and posting portfolios and I do believe I did so respectfully.

Bill, John's comment was helpful to me and I don't think his original post was condescending in any way. We have to allow people to say what they think in this forum or else it just degenerates in to an opportunity to pass out gratuitous platitudes. Almost every week the moderator of this forum has to remind us that the point here is to provide real analysis, explanation and critique. Idiosyncratic reactions such as "I like it" or "It's wonderful" are not particularly helpful if we want to develop our understanding of photography. The point here is to understand why we react in the way we do. This requires explanation, reasoning and analysis. This is why I appreciated John's response very much. It's perfectly fine to think that John is wrong. It would be very informative if you could provide some reasoning as to why you think that what he said about the image is not justified. In the end though, you did what you accuse John of doing. You made a condescending remark about John's photography.

So thank you John for elevating this forum. It's much appreciated. JJ

Bill, the whole point of this forum, at least as I understand it, is to foster discussion and present various viewpoints that are sparked by a particular photograph. I don't agree entirely with John A.'s viewpoint, but it did get me to thinking about the meaning of "cliches," and I appreciated his input. I can say the same about others who offered suggestions, tweaks, and praises. I thought John's critique focused on the subject and was supported by well-reasoned arguments; it was not in any way a personal attack. I think you could gain much by following John's example when providing personal opinions on a forum like this.

A little tension is a good thing amongst photographers I think, gets people thinking. I have appreciated all of the comments so far and know that the elves didn't pick this image because it was the "best". There is always some debate on what we should post on the web and what we should not. If I made my living in photography I wouldn't be a serial poster here on PN like I am and probably will be until I grow up. I can see some improvement in my image making over the years and hope that I will keep on improving. I am never really satisfied with the photos I take because I see a ton of images made by photographers I admire that are much better than what I have come up with so far. I have a long way to go to get really good but I enjoy the journey and can't think of anything more fun or worthwhile to do.

I again like John A's insight.

Others: Is the tree top all that necessary to include? I see so many say it bothers them. I suggest, showing the 'whole' top would have thrown the whole image out of balance. How important is that? Of utmost; too much top, kinda like a cathedral where you want to show the whole steeple but it's just juts so high with nothing to help the interest around it, if you know what I mean. How to solve? Well, maybe cut into it more, so that there is so much cut you don't notice there is some 'missing'. How to do that and keep the balance? How about a little off the bottom too?

Nice job Tim. No master was born a master, but he/she had the heart/determination to want to be one.

I have a feeling that Tim did what most of us do when a fleeting composition makes its appearance: rack the zoom (or run with prime-shooting feet) and quickly aim the lens while being constrained by the aspect ratio of the format being used as well as being constrained by elements on all sides of what is seen in the viewfinder. Only later can we crop, and that's a subjective and often open-ended exercise. Personally, I like to have a common print and frame size, so cropping in one direction only has its consequences; I'd much rather get it right in the camera. Having said that, I often make cropping suggestions in the critique forum; often there is more than one photo in a given photograph.

I think Tim's initial composition is just fine -- I agree with Michael that trying to include the top of the tree would have resulted in a lot of empty sky, and who knows what would have shown up on the left or right. I also think Michael's suggested crop is very good, as long as it's o.k. to be matting and framing an aspect ratio that doesn't come standard from the camera and which probably won't fit the large collection of frames that are scattered around the house. Everyone does make prints, don't they?

The me the best phoos are ones with few individula elements. One gets the viewer attention and then the eye is drawn to the other elements. This photo does it beautifully. Sometime my eye goes straight to the walker. Other times it goes to the treess. The ellements are all ballanced. The lack of color also helps in my opinion. Yet it isn't a black and white photo so what little color there also adds to the photos quality.

Cliche? I don't think so. In the photoclub I attend I have not seen anything quite like it. Also may first time photographer tend to try and get more into a photo. This has less. The exposure is deliberately set to make the trees black. Many people woud try and brighten them and the forground with a longer exposure. It is a simple photo to make but composition is outstanding.

In terms of framming my initiall thought was that I would like to see a little bit more of the top of the center tree. But that would make the waker smaller. I also considered that multiple pictures stiched together to create a panorama or narrow vertical might make it better. However overall I don't think any of those would work.

Congradulations on a very good photo.

Tim
Congrats on a lovely photo. Not qualified to comment on the Composition or other technical aspects because I have only really been "serious" about being an amatuer photographer for a few months now. this brings me onto the second part of my post, which is : thanks to all the excellent photographers (some of the portfolio's are truly inspiring) who have commented on this. You are all contributing to my education as a photographer and hopefully some of your critique and suggestions will sink in.
At the moment I have about 10 photos posted on this website. None of them would ever be worthy for consideration in a competition or by a professional photographer and would all ripped to shreds in the critique forums, but by keeping them to myself I am not doing myself any service and will never improve. As I improve as a photographer I will not remove them or be concerned that these are the photographs that will represent me as a photographer, because they will represent my journey as a photgrapher.
The point I am making is that so what if it is a cliched image, and maybe not technically perfect. Its has beauty and is something for me to aspire to. There are many people on here who will admire the image and learn from the critiques posted.
thanks Tim and thanks to all those who take time to post critiques.

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs185.snc3/19244_105640066121994_100000280041863_141053_7795034_n.jpg

It supposes to be sunrise, I turn it to sunset ..??

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs165.snc3/19244_105640536121947_100000280041863_141075_2999674_n.jpg
another mood ..

I am currently stuck in a place that offeres no trees, no open spaces, and no escape from some awful people. So when I look at this photo, it brings out a very emotional component. I find this photo to be very elegant in its simplicity, and in that elegance I find a great deal of beauty. I don't have much to say on the mechanics of the photo, because I'm not a particularly technical guy beyond using that technique to bring about emotion. This photo does that for me. It's very peaceful and very easy to connect with. It brings out a distinct longing in me to be in a place like this.
Thanks, Tim. And congratulations.

Tom, I like what you said about "longing". Subconciously, I think my photos are mostly about longing and nostalgia.

Nothing to critique except that tree sticks at the top, but then again, there was no way of framing any better.
Mate, I'd hang that onto my wall any time.

Michael Seewald closed his comment by making a very valid comment: "No master was born a master, but he/she had the heart/determination to want to be one."
I'd like to add this comment by Willa Cather to that: "Artistic growth is, more than it is anything else, a refining of the sense of truthfulness. The stupid believe that to be truthful is easy; only the artist, the great artist, knows how difficult it is."

Michael Seewald closed his comment by making a very valid comment: "No master was born a master, but he/she had the heart/determination to want to be one."
I'd like to add this comment by Willa Cather to that: "Artistic growth is, more than it is anything else, a refining of the sense of truthfulness. The stupid believe that to be truthful is easy; only the artist, the great artist, knows how difficult it is."

superb shot Tim:)

Beautiful shot Tim. The tones are wonderful.

~j

Very good photo! For perfection though I would have waited for the person with dog to reach the point just before the last tree at the left (they are already walking that way) Now the photo, to me seems unbalanced as all attention is drawn the the rigt:

-The highest tree

-The sun

-Person with dog

 

(another drastic solution would be to crop the left side completely making it a portrait view:-)