U Bien Bridge <a href="http://www.djphotography.net">DJ Photography</a>

Rienk, you wrote:

"Burma is also one of the cruellest military dictatorships in the world, by the way...I just wonder what y'all are travelling around for down there"

Your social concerns in honour. But....

Have you been there? Dont believe everything just because it is written in the newspaper.

Besides, travelling and building friendship can never be wrong.

I, personally, like this photo. The effect of the sillouettes (sp?) walking across the bridge is an interesting one, and I think strikingly beautiful.

 

Were I to change anything, I would crop out the water at the bottom (I find the reflection distracting), and possibly do the print in black and white instead of color (the orange tone of the sunset is interesting, but my gut says B&W would be a more "striking" image - especially opposing the black/near black of the people, bridge and shore against what would be a slightly grey sky.

 

Just my two cents

I have read with interest the comment of JON REVERE: "......cropping by using a camera". When I was developing and printing my own B&W films,- taking most pictures was relatively easy. As Ansel Adams once said, that the "perfect" product is achieved in the darkroom. I believe his famous picture of MOONRISE, Hernandez, New Mexico, 1941, he'd printed 119 times before he was pleased with the endresult. Ansel Adams did in a conventional way what many photographer are achieving, these days, with 'photoshop'. Once the B&W film, which demands C41 development, got on the market I turned lazy and had to compensate by cropping the image through the viewfinder, into the camera; it will eventually become second nature! Without fail, people tell me that they do like my own darkroom pictures best!

Good designers wait till all the required elements of a page are in BEFORE the page is designed. Then they design the page around the art as text can be altered without changing the meaning.

Yes, but -- while making the actual photo choices there are times they will pick a less deserving image because it is composed in such a way as to allow text. This is especially true on brochures where the format and panels are already decided due to printing runs and budget considerations. I've been a part of that process with ad agencies and designers and college brochure designers. I've watched them pick an image from a possible 30 images because it allowed for the format and text...even though they prefered the "look" of something else.

Not original but asthetically striking. The idea that you can't avoid cropping because just framing your shot with a cmaera is cropping is a bogus concept. We choose subject, composition and framing based on the format. Cropping after the fact is totally different. Where does it end? You can take a 6 megapixel 35mm file and crop a minute portion of it at 2:3 aspect, have it be 600x400 at 100%, and call it an original photo- but it's not! Cropping diminishes and devalues photography as an art form. I have a thousand photos that never made the cut simply because they were poorly framed. I couldn't concieve of cropping them all and calling it original photographic work.

"After reading all the posts, the only cropping reason I disagree on is No. 3 of Marc's reason to crop: To fit an editor or a publisher's layout requirements. Never crop to fit an editors needs. Good designers wait till all the required elements of a page are in BEFORE the page is designed. Then they design the page around the art as text can be altered without changing the meaning." - Paul Conrad.

Almost right. Now how do you fit full page or full double page an uncroped horizontal image shot with a 35mm camera in an italian format art book (in a square), or even in an A4 travel brochure ? Etc.

Basically, you are here talking about a layout which includes a lot of copy and a smaller image. Then you are right. But that's not what I was talking about. Basically, all I'm saying is that you can't get an uncropped shot to fit just ANY format at full page size... And Mary Ball is of course perfectly right as well besides that. Regards.

I may be wrong, obviously, but my conclusion about Darrin's POW week will be this. An iconic image of an iconic landmark of Burma shot in a very common way ends up with an average close to 6.5 in originalty. That says to me it is really time to get rid of the originality rating all together on the site... If this is one of the most original shots on photo.net, I guess I'm the one swimming under this bridge...:-)

And let me get this straight: this observation is not taking away anything as for the great aesthetical merit of this image, nor am I denying that Darrin surely deserved a POW. Just a general observation, and it is also the reason why I personally think Darrin's other picture was a better choice. That's about it. Cheers.

Hi,

 

At lomg last a sensible photographic site with some constructive feedback. Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to give advice.

 

I am starting to write some articles on South East Asia and would like to know how I submit them to this site for review. One is finished on the Lake Inle area of Myanmar (Burma). If anyone would like a copy please email me on darrin@djphotography.net. Would love your feedback.

I think the photo to be very professional and of course difficult to inprove except all the personal efforts liking cropping. Argueing that it can be cropped this way or that way is really a personal statement. The photo is exceptional and can certainly stand on it's own merits as is. Then comes the personal thing every photo is judged on a personal level and our likes and dislikes, our feelings of a photo etc. are all slighly different. This image is without question very very good as is as far as I am concerned. I also find little fault with some of the cropping suggestions except the one that crops it vertically down to a narrow strip which allows me to see the two people on the bridge walking off into thin air.

A near duplicate copy of this image appears on the NYTIMES website at:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/travel/sophisticated/index.html?8hpist

 

is this yours ??

First of all I want to congratulate Darrin for his outstanding photograph.

 

As I just saw this image (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/02/travel/sophisticated/ST-BURMA.html ) in the travel section of the New York Times, the issue I want to raise is the sad state of affairs with certain locations being photographed again and again and presented as images of great originality. It reminds me of the hordes that follow the tripod holes of Ansel Adams now armed with GPS devices and proudly publishing their endevours. You cannot put a copyright or a trademark on a location/time combiantion and there is a lose - lose situation whatever you do. If an image can be copied and repeated by artisans with a high degree of success, where is its value and who can put a claim on it?

 

 

First of all I want to congratulate Darrin for his outstanding

photograph.

 

As I just saw this image

(http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/02/travel/sophisticated/ST-BU

RMA.html ) in the travel section of the New York Times, the issue

I want to raise is the sad state of affairs with certain locations

being photographed again and again and presented as images

of great originality. It reminds me of the hordes that follow the

tripod holes of Ansel Adams now armed with GPS devices and

proudly publishing their endevours. You cannot put a copyright or

a trademark on a location/time combiantion and there is a lose -

lose situation whatever you do. If an image can be copied and

repeated by artisans with a high degree of success, where is its

value and who can put a claim on it?

Valeriu,

 

Thank you for the comment. However, I have never claimed it as an image of originality.

 

I loved the place, the people and this photo. That's all.

 

Darrin

 

 

No, the shot in the NY Times is not mine.

The two images are very different to my eye, similar but different enough. Both images reflect their creators impulses and vision. Obviously the graphic elements are the same -- golden light, silhouetted figures against an orangish ground. The shot in the NYT encompasses a wider view, the ball of the setting sun, the sun's reflection in the water. more traffic and a more interesting array and positioning of people and vehicles crossing the bridge and the bridge also looks more rickety than in the PoW selection. I'm also sure I have seen this view previously in at least one book and possibly a movie or two.

If all you see is the gross similarities than you need a bigger imagination.

On the other hand there is Alexi Brodovich's dictum about photography: "If you look through the viewfinder and see the something you have seen before don't take the picture."

This view is clearly a visual cliche of southeast asia. Visual cliches releave the photographer of the burden of finding original subject material, but impose on an artist the need to find one's own expression ofthat idea. Why is we never see images taken at another time of day or day? What meanings does the bridge or the people & traffic crossing it have for the photographer? How can an artist or photojournalist find the elements in the commonality of the outer world which express their personal vision?

Compare this iamge to the PoW from the following week. Which one "hooks" into your imagination, intelligence and consciousness more?

I like this one better than the one int he Times :P great work

 

 

To Dennis Dolgachev--Have you considered that the POW photo may have been taken first? Regardless, just because you have seen this shot twice hardly makes it common.

You caught me, someone else has taken a shot of this bridge. I am so embarrased and will never take another photo again. Watch out everyone, when you shoot that portrait, landscape and even abstract, make sure no-one else takes the same shot. Maybe I should have dismantled the bridge so no-one could take the shot after me.

 

Just to save them being embarrased of course.

Darrin one need only look at your portfolio to realise that your talent is way beyond those who merely copy. How many similar images/techniques can one see on the web/photonet. Some people find a style and repeat it very often...is that not more embarassing? Original!!! Whatabout the fashion shoot with the £1000's of pounds spent on the model, the makeup artist, the clothing specialist etc. Is the image the professional fashion photographer so original when he has so much input from others? There is no black and white only grey. Ignore the "Sour grapes" posters.

Thanks

Darrin, Sensational shot, full stop.

 

Denis, before you criticise an obviously talented photographer, how about you upload a couple of your snaps for critique?

Rather than comment on the holier-than-thou arguments above, I think I will stick to the photo at hand.

There is a wonderful warmth to this photo that is soft rather than harsh. You made an excellent composition, zooming in just enough to capture distingushing features of the people. But wide enough to make the walkway into a lovely pattern.

Keep up the good work!

Hey Darrin, are you sandbagging on me? :) I had no idea you made POW on here but I can certainly see its well-deserved. I love the geometry of the image. A bridge and a lifeline I imagine for the people who use this bridge. Once upon a time, people in America saw structures like these and associated them with their experience of the war in Vietnam. Whether intended or not, you did a marvellous job of erasing a lot of that baggage for me and showing this as the path of life. Very well done my friend.

one of the most impressive and wonderful pics I have seen on Photo-Net!!!

Incredible!