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Well, Gordon, be that as it may, I am personally very upset with David, it appears he may have stolen one of my film canisters!

John. I would be only too pleased to give you all three of mine. I can't seem to shake the things off. I no longer upload imagines to this site. I long ago stopped using the critique forum and have now stopped writing critique anywhere  at PN other than this forum.  I seldom use any part of PN beyond the NW forum. I figure you  must only needed to have a pulse to get those canisters.  When an administrator on the site help forum told me I had no business voicing my opinion about a particular issue and further more  if I did not like site policy it would be best if I were to shut up and buggered off, I decided to  let my membership lapse. That was quite some time ago yet there is still a members icon beside my name?  If anyone wants that silly cup for their morning coffee help yourself to that as well.

a nice picture, a little over sharpened though. Also Some people need to stop analyzing photos like they are graphs, it sucks all the fun out of photography. The photo speaks a thousand words so you don't have to

I am beginning to suspect that some sort of global conspiracy of dunces has taken over the inter-web thingy. Does that make me paranoid?

No, it makes you observant.

I didn't find this photograph depressing, even though it depicts a person slogging up a slippery slope in a scene of dilapidation accompanied by an object of the modernity, the solar panels consisting in large measure of solid state material, as with the computers used in the production of this forum. Yet there is a sense of determination to keep on going in the face of unpleasantness in the form of the wet snow falling all about.
It's one aspect of the photograph that makes it worthwhile to ponder and justifies its choice as subject of discussion.

Thanks Fred,
 
I was hoping to avoid adding  paranoia to my list of personality disorders.
 
I've been thinking about what might be at the root of so many people wandering onto this forum, a forum dedicated to constructive analysis of photos, only to denigrate anyone who makes any analytical observations about the photo.
 
I wonder if the  forum title confuses some people who do not bother to read the forum instructions. Photo Of The Week along with the silly cup could easily give rise to the idea that this is some sort of an award show. Looked at from that point of view, my behavior is akin to someone jeering critical comments towards  the podium during an acceptance speech at the academy awards.  If you throw into the mix the fact that the   "give me numbers and tell me I'm a genius forum "  is for some inexplicable reason labeled the " critique forum"  I supposed it could be easy for people to become confused.
 
Either that or the POW forum has been moved  across the hall from a nit-wit convention and someone keeps leaving the door open.

Gordon, I miss you on the critique forum for two reasons . . . you didn't stoop to the level of "nice shot" comments that are so prevalent and you, along with me and few others, were able to carve out a niche for ourselves that was constructive and a bit more penetrating. I got honesty from you, and some good ideas. Not many overt suggestions (at my own request) but insights that were suggestive, allowing me the honor of taking your words and translating them for myself into ways of seeing and sometimes re-seeing my own photos. Likewise your posting of photos enabled me the opportunity of exercising my own writing skills about photos that didn't meet the standards of the typical PN fare. Writing about your photos has helped me hone my skill of seeing.

It's hard to get honest and to learn. We can all be defensive. If we analyze photos (and don't just feel them), that analysis could be made of my own photos. Many want to be good at taking or making photographs but they don't want to BECOME good at it. If a photo can't or shouldn't be analyzed, then it's good if I think it is, which is a boatload of manure but is also satisfying. Satisfaction is usually the antithesis of what makes good art and good photographs. Art comes from yearning, not from feeling personally satisfied.

"...or suggestions as to how it can be improved upon..." Well Gordon B, how does one "improve" upon a spur-of-the-moment grab shot like this? You see it - you take it. Quick, simple. It's gone in a nano-second. It's not a flower. It's not a landscape.

Gordon, the day we shall be satisfied and think we can seat on the bay wreath ... we better leave our camera in the closet... we can think differently, but honesty, genuine writing( for me also better my language barriers...) learning all the time from our own mistakes is making a difference. I hope you will continue to critique, as I learned a lot from your points of view and how you express yourself. I hope ( as Fred ,in this issue) that you will be active as well in uploading your work, so we can benefite of your skills.

"Well Gordon B, how does one "improve" upon a spur-of-the-moment grab shot like this?"

You process it with vision.

Also, improvement can happen by looking back. We talk about something that could have been improved not necessarily to improve what's already been done but to help us see differently in the future. If there was a compositional problem here, it might be discussed not because you can go back and retake the picture or would even want to do that. You discuss it so that your compositional approach might improve the next time you go to "grab" a shot.

Fred, I think you have hit on a lot of points in these last 4 entries that many don't think about at all--they just sometimes don't think. When a photo is discussed, any photo, there really isn't the opportunity to go back and redo it. Based on that and DF's comment, then we should be silent and say lovely photo or I think this is a bad photo? I think not. Even when it is a good photo, talking about what makes it a good photo, what takes it beyond being just ordinary just raises issues to be thought about. Not everyone will even get much of what is said as you can only hear what you are ready to hear, but seeds are planted and most end up growing over time.

When I read about the "spur of the moment" sort of shot, I did kind of have to laugh. Like this old guy was moving so fast that that was the only shot to be had! Most likely, as I described in my first entry here, had Orhan waited another second or so, the old man would have looked back down to plan his path and a totally different sort of shot could have been made or a second later, he looks back up and another, like this, but somewhat different is made--a subject like this might be a bit more like a landscape than we think! Sometimes we need to remember to work a shot or at least have that thought in our arsenal. And certainly, the execution of a print(file) can be worked on forever to hone its execution to perfection. But I digress, the real point of a critique forum is to raise issues, not solve anything, but make observations that can cause others to think, sometimes even ourselves as Fred says, by putting into words what we see.

DF,
 
Fred has already done a fine job of answering your inquiring, thanks Fred.
 
Since you did ask me specifically I will add a few thoughts. For starters, you comment to the effect that this photo is not a flower is I  gather in reference to my final 3 photos on this site being orchids. I uploaded those  photos in response to the request of  good friend at PN  as a personal favour. If you had looked into my portfolio beyond those three images you would have discovered that my photographic interests go well belong botanical studies of Orchids.  Once again a shallow and simplistic investigation on your part has brought you to an ill informed and hopelessly inaccurate conclusion . Bravo you're really on a streak !
 
Your notion that a photo is some sort of mystic event which you are either there to witness and capture or not, somewhat  like seeing a shooting star in the night, is a fallacy. A fallacy which no doubt keeps you warm at night since it consoles you into believing that your own photography is lacking only in opportunity and not lacking in skill, expedience or vision. A lot of people cling to this type of mythological photo voodoo for no better reason than that it is easier than getting off their asses and learning the skill required to take a decent photo.  You strike me as one of those people so I will not waste any more wear and tear on my fingertips typing this response. Enjoy your mythical search while the rest of us stay busy honing our craft.
 
 

In my last post expedience should have read experience. I had to run an errand and this wretched 10 minute limit for corrections expired before I returned.

Pnina, nice to hear from you. With both Fred and yourself here it feels like old home week :-)

In our day we sure did kick up some full scale shit-storms around this place, both amongst ourselves and in the larger populace. Kinda makes me feel nostalgic.

I agree with you and Fred I have always believed that complacency is best left to cows. Whenever people sit back feeling content they start to stagnate.

Having a tendency to be over-opinionated, I was never a stranger to butting heads with management at PN. Despite our disagreements Josh always treated me with the utmost respect. It was not until Shun told me to shut up or leave that I decided enough was enough. This is not a decision which I am likely to revisit. As you already know Pnina I am presently laid up with fractured ribs or else I would be out with my camera making better use of my time than hijacking the POW thread. Poor Mary Ball, I hope she never has to see the abomination which her once well tended forum has become. Sooner or later whoever is currently asleep at the wheel will wake up and all this will be gone.

Gordon, we shall wait patiently for your rib fracture to heal. I have read what Shun wrote you, it was a good way to chase you ,and other people out. But you are here not because of Shun, you are here to work on your photography, giving your skills and receiving from others that you know will tell you what they really think.We will not be always in agreement, but getting other point of view is educating.Take care, take your time ,and reconsider...;-))

For me this is a nice work. Theoretically I wish there was not that solar water heater(?), but this is just my personal opinion. Congratulations.

Very beautiful photo Orhan.The exposure is very precisely chosen, it gave nice contrast and caught the motion of the falling snow.The time seems stopped in this village, while the solar-heater on the roof comes to land you in real time.It's a controversial point of view, if it should be there or not, but other people live there not us, they know their needs and it's far beyond our demands for a "flawless" photo.Art is with the people, not over.Regards

Wow. I confess I have not read all the comments above, merely scanned through them.

But I do want to compliment Orhan on a very nice photograph.

I like it as it is, since it gives such a profound sense of place.

Some photos have primarily an aesthetic appeal, but others seem to strike a deeper chord that engages our whole humanity, and I find that the present image is of the latter kind. From a purely aesthetic point of view, it may not be judged extraordinarily attractive, yet on the level of shared humanity we are drawn graphically into the harsh reality of the life of an old man battling against the elements. John Donne’s verse springs to mind: “I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee”. For me, the uphill struggle of the man becomes a perfect symbol of his life’s journey, and the compositional choice to leave more space behind him than in front, though perhaps aesthetically less pleasing, helps to underline very eloquently the fact that his life’s journey is nearing its end. It’s an image that grips, while others that may be aesthetically more satisfying can leave us cold and unaffected.

"Some photos have primarily an aesthetic appeal, but others seem to strike a deeper chord that engages our whole humanity"

It seems like there's something to this but, at the same time, it seems precarious.

Striking chords and engaging humanity is an element that will help make a significant photo. It's also something that's used as an excuse a lot. Old people walking in treacherous elements, by their very nature, strike chords and engage humanity. But it's the IDEA of them that accomplishes that. The photo may still be a lousy one (I'm not saying this one is, it's not) even if it presents a subject or idea that would, in the abstract, strike chords. A photo is something visual. It's LOOK also has to compel us, not just its IDEA. Many of the criticisms here have been about HOW THE IDEA is conveyed and presented in the actual photo. That is a very valid . . . even necessary . . . way to critique. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of airy fairy nonsense about romanticized emotional states.

I was rock climbing all weekend but I'm back... Ummm, art is an idi0t's excuse for poor photography. Ummm my therapist keeps telling

me to be more cynical. Ummmm, you can have your film canister back... I only needed to make a temp cantein out of it. Ummm and I

see that one guy is still hatemongering on this forum. And it looks like kah Kit deleted all those posts on the other forum that I was talking

about. Ummmm, sorry but this photo could have been much better, even as a spur of the moment shot, but it's good. Don't get me

wrong. Good to be back. I really missed my anger management.

"You see it - you take it. Quick, simple. It's gone in a nano-second."

That's a myth too as far as this image is concerned.

You imagine it, see something close to it, you shoot it, then you move the key figure where you want and leave horrible artifacts all over the image. Then you present it to an audience too ignorant to see your butchering.