Being Protected.

I see an image with five distinct centers of interest. The two hands and two knees are so strong that I have trouble even looking at the face for more than a monemt before my eyes are torn away to circulate around the face to the four strong points. Even without the four distracting interest points, you are left with only a possibly-cute kid. Cute kids don't make it in my mind unless the features of the portraiture are extraordinary. I don't understand the attraction to this photo. I know we all have different points of view, but ask youself if Rembrant would have created an image like this?

Now, let's see how the image could be improved to meet my criteria of a single subject. It is likely that the image could have been made to contain a single subject, albiet a more complex subject, by integrating the younger and elder into a compelling scene. A less strenuous crop even without the elder's face, less burning in to create opacity which obscures the remainder of the story. There could have been added emotion had the face of the elder been visible. As is, the child's emotion is unclear to me: neither fear, surprise, nor contentment. There are perhaps many ways to integrate the scene so that we are left with a stronger image.

It looks like potentially interesting picture heavily damaged by postprocessing.

I was drawn to make my first comment on POW by this stunning image.

 

As a beginner to Photo.net, I am just starting to explore what is available. POW and the discussion is a great

opportunity to learn and I'm glad to have found it. I thought I'd have a go despite my complete inexperience in image

critique.

 

I was immediately drawn to this image for the emotion it evokes. I think it is stunning in that sense.

 

On closer inspection, I found myself distracted by the post processing 'halo' around the adults arms.

 

I don't have any issue with post processing at all. It depends on the photographers vision for the final product that

will determine what is necessary to achieve that. I only feel it could have been attacked a little more carefully in this

instance so as not to detract from the potential perfection of this image.

 

 

As previous participants have noted, it would have been nice to see the original for comparison and, perhaps, an

avenue to offer advice/guidance to us all about different ways to achieve the final product.

 

Cheers

First up I have to say how truly beautiful this image is.

 

I really do agree with Luis A Guevara. This is not even my photograph and I was offended by the choice of words by

Marc G.

Photography is not always about the original composition, such a large part of photography these days is about the

process undertaken to achieve the final outcome and what the artist intends you to see.

While I do think that the burning of this image could be improved, there are nicer ways to say it.

I actually don't want to compare this image to the original, because if the artist intended it to be viewed in the original

state thats what would have been posted.

I think all thats really needed here is a little more attention to detail.

 

Just my two cents.

Great job Tuan!

great shot

I can totally see why Marc laid in all those kidney punches. At a deeper more respectful level the artist has done the portrait a diservice with less than perfect technique. But hey, who's perfect here? (well, apart from me of course) After I read Marc's post I went back and studied the image and had to agree - but when I first saw it, my jaw dropped. The power is added in this image by the massive blackness of the BG, however naively daubed.

 

Tuan should be awarded a Wacom as an encouragement prize. :)

It's an exquisite photograph. I believe the use of Photoshop, in the manner in which Tuan used it, is completely appropriate. I see no difference between going into a darkroom and dodging and burning an image till it suits one needs and what Tuan did. Perhaps Photo.net needs a category to suit those who wish to learn from the flaws and imperfections of a particular print. As some suggested, I see no problem in displaying prints as is, prior to manipulation, for learning purposes, but I believe this forum is more directed to the final product rather than the process.

Posting a critical comment in this forum has never really been a pleasure, and so I honestly wonder why I keep on doing it. You hardly get anyone to thank you for your time, people feel "embarassed" and what not, and on top of that, you get called all kinds of bird names - and mostly by people who misinterprete what you are saying.

 

So, to clarify: I was indeed talking about the result - NOT the process per se. I spend hours on Photoshop for a single image when I need to, so I do not mind Photoshop or ANY other technique 1) PROVIDED it suits the picture's purpose, and 2) PROVIDED it's well done - and this is not, sorry. Proper burning is ok, but this burning is quite "messy", not clean.

 

Finally... Sorry for not saying what I have to say in a romantic mode, with flowers and hugs, but I do mean well, and I believe there are already waaaaay to many hugs and flowers all over each critique site I've seen. If I asked to see the original, that's because I may then have suggested a way to "fix" the problem I saw - if anyone would care, that is...:-)

 

You never learn/teach anything from/to anyone just by saying what's nice. You better concentrate on what's wrong - including when you are looking in the viewfinder.

 

End of the day, I too would have liked this picture a lot... Unfortunately the technical imperfection that I saw interrupted my enjoyment.

 

Last but not least... I read some comments saying that the older person shouldn't be cropped and such. I do not agree. A picture including a second face would have a secondary interest point, whereas this POW shows the photographer's decision to convey mostly a message/story about the child. And legs and hands are enough to tell us that the person behind is old - which is all the photographer wanted us to know. A second face in the frame would bring by a totally different story and meaning and a different composition, involving elements outside the frame that we haven't even seen. It would be no better or worse - just different. Unless we'd know how interesting the older person's face was at that time, we simply can't say anything about what's outside of this frame. The photographer looked outside before, we are now trapped between these 4 outlines that he presented, and the composition works - as it is. Proof of it is that it does deliver its message in the clearest manner.

 

I criticized the burning - NOT the entire picture, and NOT the photographer. So please folks, allow me my opinion, and enjoy yours if you like it better. :-)

The burning does not bother me at all. I love the photo. If I took it I would print and frame it.

I do love the composition of the picture, however I do find Marc G constructive criticism really interesting. I would have liked to hear how to better use PS. I also agree that there is a lot of luck involved in getting great pictures. When I originally began photography I thought that a great photographer only took great photos. I now realise that one might take 100s or even thousands to get the right one.

 

So I say Well done Tuan for the picture and well done Marc for some good comments, I just wish that you could take it further.

A very touching picture! Funny, JUST before I saw the title, I was telling myself: "This child is being protected" !... And I'm sure the protector is a woman, because of the bracelets she is wearing. As to her apparent age, she may NOT be VERY old. Possibly, in the conditions she is living in, the aging of hands might be way faster than, say, in our suburbian latitudes...

 

Wonderful work! Very eloquent! Makes us loquacious!

 

Bruno

One last comment before retiring from this week's POW. Marc, my sincere appologies for jumping in with both feet without having my thoughts clearly in order. You are correct in seeing some inadequate darkening of the background...I guess I didn't look at it closely enough, but with your eye to guide me, I see what you are talking about. The wife of a photographer friend showed me how to find and eliminate background junk which unless you are sharp eyed, you may just ignore. Still, I do love that photograph. The composition works to draw the viewer right to the eyes of that little girl. The theme of protection for the title is most suitable, and I think with a bit more work this image could come up to a standard we all could appreciate. It has been a learning experience for me.

 

Willie the Cropper

Having a European background and spending lots of time on US-focussed photo sites some years ago I think that I

understand at least a bit of what's going on here.

 

At first I was very impressed when I saw this work. Having a closer look I had to admit, that there are some

major technical flaws that are very visible and distracting. This photograph deserves better. Marc has my full

sympathy because he put in words what I thought.

 

The majority of comments is very (I mean very!) positive. Most posters don't seem to even consider that this

photograph could be enhanced by more decent photoshopping. And I am sure it could be because it has great potential!

 

Let me guess: About 95 % of all comments here is: Hooray! Perfect! -- mostly based on first impression without any

deeper analysis or even enough time spent with this photograph. Marc on the other side obviously dives in

deeper, gives reasons for his opinion, does a remarkable and brave job -- and gets bashed for that. Quite

awkward ...

 

Well, I am one of those boring Europeans who is more into analyzing than into hoorays. I want to understand and

not beeing washed away by emotion. This is a very emotional and it gets through to me -- but the other side of me

is still there giving good advice. It's *not* black and white only with nothing in between, folks.

 

My impression is that we might see a cultural difference here: In a German board this photograph would probably

get only 50 % of hoorays

(if at all). Just another guess from someone who is definitely *not* a technical freak when it comes to photography.

 

-Frank

 

PS. Marc: Do you have German ancestors? ;-)

Absolutely BEAUTIFUL thank you for the pleasure

Marc......after perusing your website and Photo.Net portfolio, it is apparant you are technically proficient. The one obvious thought that struck

me when looking at your work is that while graphically pleasing, it is emotionally vacuous. While I do think there is much fellow Photo.Net

members can learn from your areas of expertise, I believe there is much you can learn from Tuan and his wonderful ability to capture

emotion. I think it's important to see "the big picture" before placing one's values on a particular image.

I came across this image when it was originally posted back in June and was very impressed by it. I still think it's a captivating image, but I appreciate Marc's knowledgeable contribution to the critique. It has been helpful in recognizing post- processing and taught us to look beyond the surface. My understanding is that this is what the POW forum is all about.

Wonderful composition...expression on the childs face is worth a thousand words..congratulations.

Its' ALWAYS the same problem...

When somebody tries to explain his (her) honest opinion, there is always others who understand a personal critic and not a critic about their photograph. Or, more generally about A photograph.

On this photograph thread, one member of this site gives a honest and constructive comment, which one I agree. The background is hastily reworked and this is regrettable because the child's expression and the idea to oppose youth to old age are great.

So, this thread turns into critics about critics. And, IMHO, this is not the aim of the POW. Everybody has the right to have his (her) personal opinion and nobody has the right to judge the person.

I know Marc G. work. If there is a work with emotion its his one, for sure. People who say there is not, doesn't know what about they speak.

At the end, I regret this thread is becoming a critic (almost an attack) against one member, even though it only would have to be critic about ONE picture.

Best regards

Just wanted to agree with marielou.

I find the critique on photo.net a great way to learn and open my eyes to new aspects I can bring to my own photos, the fact that so much (sometimes heated!) debate comes from so many experienced and talented members here shows that there are always new ways to look at things - art is subjective, after all!

I'd have preferred it stuck to a debate about the technical aspect of the photo rather than what seems to be getting quite personal about one member's comments. Keep it up Marc - comments like this help us learn & improve!

Thank you everyone for your comments and critics. I do enjoy reading all the technical critics. I had so much to learn from everyone here from photoshop techniques to photography. I haven't taken any photography or photoshop classes yet. I think I will have to take some classes since there are a lot of flaws in my works.

 

This particular picture was taken in Vietnam. My uncle, which i always admire in his photography skills, took me to this village and there we were shooting and shooting for about 1 hour. To be honest, I only had a dozen of good pictures that I really feel there are some emotional & feeling in them. And this picture is one of them.

 

My uncle used Canon EOS A2, and his pictures are stunning. Too bad that he couldn't share them with us because he didn't have digital copy and internet access in his small village in Vietnam.

 

I found Photoshop is one of the greatest tool for Digital Photography. I do think only great artist could make use the most out of the powerful Photoshop which I am not obviously. If we are not a true artist, photoshop won't help much in our works.

Marc G, Your comments in their part prompted a lively conversation about this image. I find this much more useful than a thread of "nice shot"s; and I hope to read others in the future. Thank you.

Nice picture. Not a great one, but a nice one. Processing is very heavy handed and in print form would probably stick out like a sore thumb, especially anything over 16x20. I've found that if you put a kid with any kind of expression on his/her's face you immediately tie into everyone's parenting instincts and they think it's wonderful, whether it is or not. It's almost like if you say it's not good you have insulted the child of everyone viewing. Everyone has different tastes. Some will like this while others (like myself) won't. I find it to be just another child shot in a sea of child shots.

 

If you have problems with Marc's comments do yourself a favor and never enter an image into a photo composition, send anything to a curator or for the love of god don't go to any 'real' camera club where honesty is a key element. They will have to carry you out sobbing while in the fetal position.

 

Good comments Marc. I agree with almost everything you said.

Dave.....,first let me say your work is exquisite. I don't wish you, or others, to misinterpret my words. I wholehheartedly agree that learning

the technical aspects of one's craft is vital. However, when you have a relatively inexperienced photographer, like Tuan, one needn't apply a

Marine Corps mentality to photography. Positive encouragement and suggestions, not quashing Tuan like an insect, I believe would be far

more conducive to his Photoshop and photographic success. You, and others, obviously have a different approach. I've seen many in my

lifetime and I say to each his, or her own.

Lovely shot.

Perhaps the child wonders about the photographer, who knows.

Great photo by all means.

 

Kind regards J O