Nguyen Huu An (left), 5 years old and Nguyen Thi Than Tuyen, 3 years old with their mother in Huong Xuan near Hue. The father lived in the Agent Orange infected province Song Be.

It is easier to take this photo, selecting a scene of disfigured children and blaming this on "war" or "Americans Caused This" than it would be to take a photo of the tortured, mutilated and murdered people under the Communist Dictatorship had "war" not happened to liberate the people. I say this fails as "documentary" because it implies a blame and targets a susceptible viewer as is typical of propaganda. It does not help the viewer to learn or understand complicated issues. In fact, it provokes the opposite: an emotional rage that PREVENTS rational and intellectual inquiry into the events that may or may not have led up to the moment of this photograph. This is absolutely symptomatic of the modern age of manipulative "journalism". I appreciate that the Elves have selected this image for discussion, and this is my reaction to the Elves provocation.

One of the most thought provoking photographs I have seen. The trouble is that I cannot put those thoughts down in writing, as I was there at the time. I spent my year in Viet Nam just like a lot of people.

 

Try as I might to find some problem with the image, I cannot! I tried to crop the (normal) children playing on the other side of the bars, but we loose a significantly charged aspect of the picture, namely that of the other children are outside the (Jail) that these poor children find themselves in. They are to serve a life sentence.

 

It is impossible to see this image in a non-political sense. This IS photo journalism at its best, or worst depending on how one views such things. I am glad the elves chose this for comment, but let's get back to more art photography. This one is too strong for me!

 

Willie the Cropper

Kurt, I don't think we can really judge this photo by itself, either positively or negatively. It's something that we would need to see in the context of a publication, with other photos and text, or in a gallery. I perfectly understand your point, but this is not a standalone photo. This is why I chose to limit my comments to composition. Seeing this pic alone, I agree with you. But it could be good as part of something larger.

This is amazing, moving and sad.

Thank you for sharing it.

It is very sad to look at the unfortunate by-products of war but until humans on this planet reach a common level of intelligence, understanding, and recognition for and with others without being self centered, war will continue to be a fact of human life, no matter how dramatic or sad these or other photos look. If there is intelligent life somewhere beyond our earth, and I believe there is, we are certainly not ready to co-exist with it.

very well composed.

Great, talking photo. Congratulations!!

In any conflict, atrocities are committed and mistakes are made on both sides. War is not a pretty business, ever, and it always leads to desperate and ugly moves that are later regretted.

 

I don't think that anyone could successfully argue that "documentary" photography is objective reportage, like news journalism should strive to be. It is often a personal, self-assigned undertaking, and usually has much more of a slant than *true* news photography.

 

Propaganda can be made out of anything. However, propaganda means nothing unless it is taken as truth. It is up to we as viewers to accurately judge what we see/read, etc.

 

A good pic can be used for a variety of purposes. I don't think we have enough info at this stage to judge the shooter's intent.

 

Shooter, why don't you let us know a bit more about your relationship to this project, and how you intend to put in into its final form?

...and I am also curious to know about the question I asked above. Are you familiar with the similar work of James Caccavo?

Agent Orange is bad i have 2 brother that is effected by this they both was

Special Forces in Nam and me i use to be a Marine and now Disable

Hello. Thanks for your interest and comments in this photograph. I'm sorry for my

long absence but I'm not very activ in this forum anymore.

 

I took the photographs in 1999 as assignement of several Swiss NGOs. We made a

book and quite a lot of exhibitions and many features for newspapers and

magazines. Goal was to enlighten people and to rise money (and it rised quite a lot).

The serie won a first price in Swiss Press Photo Award in 2000.

I think it is one of the strongest photographs I ever took and I like that it has a

strong social and political impact. Many people don't like this fact, but I'm not

interested to take photographs which look nice, but are, on the other side, meaningless . The only weak point the photograph has in my opinion is that I cut off

the fingers of Nguyen Thi Than Tuyen. On the other side, to have her fingers in the

picture could be at the cost of the balance of the whole compostiton.

 

To Keith: no, I'm not aware of the work of James Caccavo, but I know the book of

Philip Jones Griffiths ( "Agent Orange, "Collateral Damage" in Vietnam") which came

out in 2003.

Interesting photo. I'm skeptical of the link to agent orange, as there's very little hard evidence to support serious health effects of dioxins in human beings. And birth defects can be caused by many, many things unrelated to either herbicides or warfare.

The herbicide Agent Orange and its Dioxin are in the food chains. Result: thousands

and thousands of disabled human beings. Altough scientists here and there are

discussing what is proven and what is not - it does not change the fact that the victims

do exist. As far as I know even he US gouvernement has meanwhile accepted the link

between dioxins and these victims. By the way also many US soldiers and their

descentants are affected by this problem.

Bryan, with all due respect, there is abundant data regarding dioxin from numerous

sources showing a high hazard relationship between dioxin and its effects on human

health:

 

http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/ingredient.php?ingred06=726351

 

In b/w, this photo emphasizes the grimness of the lives people have to lead who are

effected by this, and the photo is indeed effective in getting the point across for that

reason, among others.

power ful shot. shocking picture.

One of the best I've seen in months...

Deep:|

It is really sad, you see a lot of people making a lot of money, and then you can see this, of course not in the news. Is like Africa, the life expentancy is 40 years old, I am 38, imagine that.

A picture to break the heart. Has me thinking of Eugene Smith's Tomoko Uemura in Her Bath, but where his photograph is elegant and filled with love, this image reaches a surrealist level and the tragedy becomes Dali-esque. It's a hard picture to look at, but one that needed to be taken...

I am back to this photograph. As I wrote in my previous critique, I am profoundly impressed by the compositional aspects that emphasize this human document. I see that the photographer was self-critical: that he thought cutting off the fingers of the center toddler was a blemish. Surely that is true, but I cannot see, like him, how including the finger could yet retain the fine balance of perspective as it exists now. From that view, I am led to conclude that the "completeness" of a portrait in terms of including the extremities of the limbs is merely a convention and by no means a singular criterion of aesthetic quality.

 

I am struck by the converging lines in the background that enhance the depth inspite of the closeness of the subjects and the complexity of objects around the frame. Again, I reiterate the importance of the children behind the bars. The half-face is a stroke of genius, but the mother, serving as a compositional anchor as it were as well as the social anchor, is placed at a point that cannot be stronger.

 

It is difficult to take more than one such photograh in one's lifetime.

 

To answer a few dissonant opinion on the value of such photographs beyond their photographic appeal:

1. Man is an intelligent social animal, therefore man is political, and all manifestations of man's social properties, from his nobility and creativity to his proclivity for violence might have had evolutionary significance in making him what he is. Therefore all art is ultimately political whether we like it or not. Some artistic expressions are at several layers away from politics (Ansel Adam's Moonrise in Yosemite --> profound love of nature--> conservation instinct --> environmental movement) whereas some have a more direct connection (the present photograph).

2. Agent Orange (Dioxins, of which TCDD is a major component) indeed has not been "confirmed" as a teratogen (an agent that causes developmental abnormality) in humans. However, it is a confirmed teratogen in certain small mammals, such as mouse and rats. Its 'ability' to cause cancer human is not disputed but its exact 'potency' to cause cancer is disputed. The problem is these human studies is that unlike in animal studies, one cannot do "experiments" (give dioxins to one group of people and not to another) but one must rely on statistical correlations over long periods in hetergeneous population groups. Statistical "power" of such latter types of studies is often poor. Nontheless, what we now know about the molecular mechanisms of how TCDD interacts within cells (mostly by binding to the so called Ah-receptor, which controls steroid hormone production, which also binds to certain transcription factors that are known to be tumor suppressors) we can state with certain degree of confidence that Dioxins such as TCDD most certainly have the potential to be human teratogens. Certain animal studies with TCDD have make the observation that teratogenic potential is transmitted by the exposed animal to the subsequent generation through the egg or the sperm.

 

3. The science that gave us environmental toxins, also gave us "green revolution" (in the form of fertilizers and herbicides) on whose back countries such as India, China, Mexico, and Brazil have sprung back from the point of mass starvation in the 60s to food self-sufficiencty in the 90s.

 

4. Let us remember that Vietnam is still a communist country. We did not "liberate" Vietnam through the "Vietnam war". It is a war that the US lost. In that sense, what did we achieve in Vietnam? In a sense, nothing, But if one goes to Vietnam today, one might find enough evidence of free-market aspirations in its people and a buzzing economy. At least this photo brings us closer to appreciating that wars do not solve anything much, they only create misery, but the constructive common sense of people do.

I see 3 kids looking straight at me:

the one in the foreground is saying there we go. The middle kid is saying look what you are doing! (in a slightly puzzled look) are you that ugly inside? don't you love yourself? why are you so afraid? Am I going to hurt you? The kid at the back is asking why? in some way she knows why and she's actually the kid/ego/me/you/unconscious behind bars that don't know how to get out. She's made to love, she knows but she's forgotten and been repressed, saddened, even a little hint of please help me mix with the nonchalance of why bother?

The bars separate 2 different worlds that actually are the same.

And there is the boy that is holding the 2 bars looking up in anger? defying? asking for?

well...... and nothing is said about the mother (the father not being there, the boy looking up).

There is so much in this photo it's unbelievable! and people are not commenting on the technique or else but on feelings and emotions. It takes the true sense of one pictures is worth a thousand words!

 

many many many many thanks :-)

roland, i agree that this is a very emotionally evocative image. however, my turned stomach tells me that the harrowing eyes of these children seem to be begging you, yet another photographer, to NOT snap that picture, but to help them in some way. i'd like to know-- of all the people here who said their eyes have been opened to this atrocity, how many will actually do something to help the victims of agent orange, or specifically the children in this village? what about our own soldiers (and their children?) who have been affected?

 

technically, i'm not sure where the dof actually is or should be, as the eye does want to see everything in the image. what is the mother holding? why only half the face of this little boy? what else is behind the bars that we can't see? all these questions may have been calculated by you for specific reasons known only to you, and i don't doubt your professionalism here for a millisecond.

altho b+w works well, personally i'd like to see it in color for comparison. but, it might detract from the emotive quality.

all in all, a very insightful documentary photograph. many kudos, lori

Mr Schmid. The strength of this picture lies in the fact that it makes each and everyone of us in this forum sit up, and realise that we have a tool in our hands to tell the world about untold stories which are not seen in our parts of the world, rather than simply talk about exposure, colour contrast and wonder when the 5DmkII is going to be announced. This picture, combined with the internet, serves as a very powerful voice. It made me more aware of the situation, and I plan to find out how I can help these children in my own little way. There are no weaknesses as your intent when you took this photo has been fully delivered to us with full impact. Thank you.

This is the first credible photograph I have seen on this site in ages.

During my travels in emerging and/or strife ridden countries, I have often considered where the boundaries begin and end in choosing photographic subjects. I have been leaning in the direction that there are none when attempting to communicate the depth of human pain and suffering. This image re-enforces my evolving opinion. If we saw more work like this on PN, we would better understand how frivilous much of our work is.