Reflections in the Wall III

Far from the noise of the guns and the screams and fear of the dead and dying a small group of visitors inspect a wall of rememberance. Each one of these thousands of names has a story that many (if not most of us) will never know and would never want to experience.

 

The concept of capturing this moment as a reflection in polished granite fuses the ordinary quiet of a bleak rainy day with the solemnity of these soldier's last roll call. Each group - soldiers and visitors - inspects the other.

 

The picture offers no explanations and takes no moral position on the whys and wherefores of the scene it depicts. This is one of its strengths.

 

Photographically, through use of simple geometry and perfect placement of the picture's elements - tree, inscriptions like massed marching battalions, casual visitors, tower, rain soaked footpath - coupled with sombre lighting tones, the picture conveys that atmosphere of solemnity, intimacy and respect that I always feel when I visit such a place.

 

It is difficult to put this feeling precisely into words. A photograph does it much better. This intelligent picture has succeeded admirably.

Wow! I like this image a lot!

I would have to disagree, I don't now what he is attempting to show us. Nor does the picture tell definitive story. A simple reflection shot of onlookers, tourists or family members. I apologize ahead of time, for I am young only 19,but have been a photo-editor for quite sometime now. And maybe I dont see the significance of the picture. But the picture doesnt tell me anything, its technical level can be achieved by an amateur, and on top of it all its been Photo Shopped .

As someone who lives in D.C., I have seen photographs of this reflection many, many times, all with slight variations on the theme. So I didn't give you a high originality score (6). But this photo is as good or better than the others I've seen from here -- the rain conveys a quieter, somber mood that is difficult to capture well. The Vietnam Memorial is challenging to photograph well, since most of it "been done," and most attempts to illustrate the solemnity of the place often end up looking cheesy. This one isn't cheesy at all, it's very well done. The umbrellas and particularly the reflections on the wet sidewalk work well. For aesthetics, I've given an 8.

This is a neat shot. I like the concept (perhaps it's even a little cliche), I like the somber tone of the rain and leaveless trees. What I have a hard time seeing is what makes this shot interesting. To me all I see is the cluttered reflections of some tourists and even the photographer (is that you in the middle?). I see a good idea with very little thought put into the composition. Technically this is a great shot, myself, I would have waited around and taken a bunch more shots and hopefully captured something a little more visually interesting. The fact that it has also been "photoshopped" makes me like it even less.

This is what it´s al about, reflextions... The picture tells a story, it´s giving me assosiations, very subjektive, journalistic, I want to now more about it. The living, the dead...

If you look closely the text on the wall is backwards... As if looking from behind the wall. Could it be the viewer of the photograph is one of the names on the wall looking out on the people? Could the dreariness of the outside be mourning for me? Could it be that I can't see the people clearly because I'm dead?

The text on the wall is not backwards. I can clearly read several names.

Philip wrote: Those of us who lost friends and relatives in Vietnam find this image haunting, and it brings to mind many memories and questions

This may all seem quite touching on the surface, but you may want to consider the sentiment and its public display in the context of the millions of victims who have suffered at the hands of American post-WW2 militarism. The overarching aesthetic and theme of the picture is primarily about a dreary, melancholic day in a dreary, melancholic setting, with no real message beyond that. Now imagine similar photographic treatment of a comparable Nazi war monument? Of course I can sympathise with people who lost family members, but when those relatives were part of such tremendously evil campaigns that hurt so many more others, I feel the grief should be discrete and private. I suppose it all begins with the disturbing fact that the Vietnam War Memorial itself, as it has been designed, has practically nothing about it which conveys the nation's shame. I often question whether or not the nation actually feels any, especially as the U.S. has continued to go on bombing innocent people right into this new millennium.

I suppose those who have some tie to Vietnam and the men and women who served there will see more in the photo than I do, but to me it's a cliched reflection photo of people doing uninteresting things.

 

It did suggest to me, however, that shooting the same scene in a large format camera with exagerated movements might prove interesting. Thanks for the inspiration/idea.

George, it seemed strange to me, too. But, strange as it seems, that's how it is -- right justified. See the above left photo of the attached collage.

I found this shot very interesting. I don't live in DC and I haven't seen this shot before. I think it does depict the sombre mood. Why does having the picture "photoshopped" take anything away? How many pictures aren't touched up these days? Either with filters on the camera or in the darkroom? Sometimes We just have to look at the image for what it is and not how it was created. When we see a painting we don't question the methods the painter used do we? I don't, I let my eyes do the thinking.

I have to disagree with the earlier critiques accusing the image of having no meaning, telling no story. I think it does tell a story. Rain, reflections, dark mood, the washington monument (symbol of our nation) in the background. The picture seems to say (and quite loudly) how our country is still in mourning. A simple, elegant statement. Maybe not the most original as some of you have cruelly pointed out, but still a good photo.

Joseph--

 

Your composition goes way beyond most photos of the Wall. By reflecting the human viewers, you put a nice twist on the subject. Most photos feature a person reaching out to touch a name, or (in a terrible example of photographic judgment) they take a picture with NO human element at all for this most human of places ... just names and a flower or flag.

 

But you included the most important element of the Wall ... the people. By reflecting them, you somehow make the image more meaningful to the viewer. You bring the viewer into the shot.

 

One criticism I have, however, is that in your composition you have too much going on. The names of the fallen, the trees, the people, the Washington Monument ... it's a lot to look at. In fact, I find that the busy-ness of this image competes with its solemn subject. Perhaps cropping off the left-most third?

 

You've got a strong image. Nice work.

Sorry for again posting off-theme, but I think Mr. Vuksanovic's posting deserves a reply, even though I by no means wish to drag balcanese conflicts into this forum. By all means I do think it outrageous that somebody can compare even as questionable an engagement like the american in Vietnam with the former nazi regime of Germany - outrageous, for the crime imposed on jews has no comparison in the human history, by far shot not in anything that happened during the petty engagement he's really thinking of. All those exaggerating and low whinings, pledging everybody to take their side, despite of all the facts, despite of reality, despite common sense - how unbearable, how low, how fed up I am by it all.
I know what you're whining about - please keep it out of here. It's out of place. A monument for casualities of war doesn't have anything to do with glorification of whichever politics. The monument is composed of stone plates bearing the names of those who fell - not imploring the visitor to glorify the cause they fell for (or because of), just showing their names, their number, and hopefully driving a shudder before the thought of war into all those watching.
Vietnamese might possibly be right to object to something in this monument, or the photo thereof. You are not. For everything that happened to you "on the verge of the new millenium" was something you were in for, and darned bloody well deserved, if you ask me.
My excuses to all photonetters for having to say this. I have spoken, and I won't say anything more on the subject.
As far as the POW is concerned - I don't like it very much. I don't really think there's much of a "concept" in photographing reflections, it's rather something you'll have automatically if you try to photograph the monument (unless you supress it), and something you simply have to have unless you want just brighter letters on a darker background. I would have liked the photo much more if the letters on the left hand plate weren't stepping forward, if they were without the significance they're given by being legible. I also think focussing more on the people would have done the picture good (if manual focus is available at all on this - very impressive - digital thingy). And I'll leave it entirely to americans among us to judge the emotional and overall value of it - I restrain from rating this time.

Cheers

I hope my comment evokes response from those who don't see the point of this or the elitists who look down upon it. Don't pay any attention to them Joe, for they know not of what they speak. You've done a very credible job and your heart was obviously touched (as any human's should be). The others should save their venom for the politicians who create the wars, not those who were sacrificed in them. I give this a 10 in both categories.

The composition is nearly perfect but this does not surprise me. The photographer, Joseph Nathan Hall, is an exceptionally talented individual. Maybe, he will next share some of his high speed photography !!!

Charles,

This photo is okay. I have not seen much of the bright talent you praised here. I've seen the rest of the online portfolio and not really moved. Even a poster here had a similar photo but was made in warm daylight.

 

The photo.net 'elves' missed on this one.

When I saw this photograph a while ago I had a strong feeling it would become a POW. Its the type that tickles the elves fancies. Original. Complicated. Very, very dramatic.

 

Tony Dummett really nailed it when he said, "The picture offers no explanations and takes no moral position on the whys and wherefores of the scene it depicts. This is one of its strengths."

 

A side effect of that neutrality is that it forces the viewer to make a decision as to what is being portrayed. It is a very open-ended picture.

 

There is a vague air of symmetry (the trees, etc.) about the photograph which doesnt quite come off. If the rightmost 1/5th of the image (from the partition in the wall above "h" in "http" at the bottom of the image) was cropped out it would make the composition more powerful for me, because of the following: the tall object (Washington Memorial?) would be centred; the half-symmetry of the trees would be negated; the distracting diagonal line of the walls edge (extreme top right corner) would be gone; the stout bloke in the foreground with the wrong-coloured trousers (for this picture), white shoes and apathetic poise would be removed. It would also make the composition that little bit less complex, a plus in my mind. And the image would be roughly square, a shape which seems to resonate with this subject.

 

It is the people in the rain that make this image, and not the reflection. In fact, I would go so far as to question why this wasnt a direct shot of the people viewing the wall. Shooting it directly would have precluded a POW selection, but made a better picture, I think. This photograph would benefit from being viewed in a much larger size than a computer monitor. It is overwhelming in complexity. That complexity would have been diminished had it been a direct shot, as opposed to reflected.

 

But a good show, all in all. It made me wonder (in particular, why these people are privileged to have their names inscribed on a wall for reluctantly fighting, and consequently dieing, when people throughout the world voluntarily go to an anonymous death for what they believe), and for that Im grateful.

First off, let me make clear my awareness that this is not quite the place for political discussions, yet the brief rationale Philip Greenspun presents behind the selection of our current "photo of the week" invites precisely this sort of analysis, as Matthew Francey has pointed out above. I also wish to reiterate, once more, that I feel tremendous sympathy for those who lost friends and relatives in this war. My problem is with the government behind it (plus many other wars since then) and, for our purposes, the monument--consequently, the same goes for any artistic representation of the wall that does not question its existence or design. What is the lesson America is to learn from it? I'm not sure to what extent the monument has shaped current U.S. cultural understanding of the Vietnam War, but it does seem to mirror it very well (no pun intended): the tragedy wasn't the misguided aggression against a country far away that posed no immediate threat, but the fact that so many of "our boys" died in the effort. As history has verified, all that seems to have been learned is to make sure you get others to carry your killing for you or to do it yourself only with bombs from high above and the comfort of an invincible technology.

I am sure Philip Greenspun, who seems to be a very good-natured person, did not intend to offend anyone with this selection, but it's worth considering the fact that photonet is an international entity. Pretty, sentimental pictures of military monuments from a country that has lead the world in war-mongering for over half a century and continues to unjustly attack so many nations may not go over as well here as in Massachusetts

First of all, it almost certainly wasn't Philip who chose the image.

 

Second, I don't think there's anything political about the explanation for why it was chosen. Are you suggesting people who lost friends or relatives in the war aren't entitled to be haunted by it?

 

Third, the participle of "to die" is spelt "dying," unless Mr. Dilworth is suggesting they were manufacturing coins

or something over there.

 

Fourth, I think it's a nice photo. It's not spectacular, and certainly not one of those that make me wish I were only capable of creating such an image, but as a photo of that particular subject matter, I'm not sure how it could have been done better.

 

Finally, as to the wall itself, I'm not sure every monument has to tell the whole story. Should we paste a big disclaimer on the side of the Washington Monument or Jefferson Memorial pointing out their well-documented personal shortcomings? It reminds me of those insufferable people who, when the price of any large project is brought up, say "well I can't believe we spent X on Y when there are starving children in the world." Yes, we know there are larger and more important issues that offend your highly tuned sensibilities, but that doesn't make our admittedly insignificant ones any smaller.

 

Finally (this time for real), I think the design of the monument (black, recessed into the ground and very controversial when it was first designed, by the way) reflects a lot of moral ambiguity on the part of most Americans toward what our government was doing in this war.

I was moved by the picture to envision poor young soliders marching through muddy roads, downtrodden and giving their lives for something they may or may not believe in. This image was distracted by the political comments of some contributors.

 

To all of the political contributors I offer this: this picture does not purpose to glorify the victors, but rather it offers homage to those men with courage enough to offer the ultimate sacrifice.

 

To turn this image into a political statement is not only disrespectful of all soldier's memories, it represents a distraction of photo.net's goal - to pursue and discuss the expression of life on a flat image.

 

IMHO, this picture beautifully captures the emotion and despair of war, and that is what we should talk about. There are other forums in which one can bash governments (your own or others) - please take your discussion there.

"Third, the participle of "to die" is spelt "dying," unless Mr. Dilworth is suggesting they were manufacturing coins or something over there." Mark Ciccarello

Well, I deserved that! Thanks, Mark. What do you think of the photo?

"...all that seems to have been learned is to make sure you get others to carry your killing for you or to do it yourself only with bombs from high above and the comfort of an invincible technology." Vuk Vuksanovic

Isnt high technology what Americans relied on in Vietnam? And it failed catastrophically. There is no such thing as an invincible technology. In the end, you are fighting against people, and people are smarter than machines. One day Washington (and NATO for that matter) is going to pay for its arrogance, and I wish those people Gods mercy on that day. In the meantime people of militarily less powerful countries (i.e. the whole world) will have to put up with whimsical shows of force staged at politically convenient moments, masqueraded as peacekeeping and threat suppression missions. "Look! Theyre shooting each other! Well soon teach them. Lets shoot the bullies up." That just about sums up NATOs attitude. It makes me sick. The world was far saner during the Cold War when the USSRs antics kept the States out of everybodys hair.

"I was moved by the picture to envision poor young soliders marching through muddy roads, downtrodden and giving their lives for something they may or may not believe in. This image was distracted by the political comments of some contributors." Guy England

And a good job, too. The sad fact of the matter is that most of these people died because of ludicrous instructions from higher command, inter-soldier rivalries, mundane diseases and accidents and blind pride in the face of danger. Like every war in history. On a battlefield, even death is often not glorious. And nobody believed in Vietnam. Not once they were dodging spike-floored pits in the jungle.