Dancing Girl

Incomplete. This photograph could only serve well in a series of photographs which complete the "what, where, why?"

It has serious flaws: the cropped right arm/hand; the fingers displayed crooked like a claw, her head positioned to view nothing (perhaps her navel?).

Her nose ring is anti-beauty; and in contrast to a romantic soft background.

This photographer shot closely to emphasis what?

At this level, beginner, it is a "C+" average photo which only achieves slight intimacy. There are no strong lines in it, shadows, symbols, and cropping is faulty.

Had the photographer simply instructed this maiden to sit down on the floor and look at her twisted feet, we would have then had a "circle of completeness". We could have emphasised with her concentration or pain. We could have had a chance to remember when we were in her place. Her view, instead, leads off into 'close-by infinity' and the boring floor. Maybe she is preparing to pick a crawly bug from the floor using her hooked right hand. Maybe this. Maybe that: Incompleteness!

Many people making comments seem to believe this was shot in a club, maybe due to the first description provided by photo.net. I believe this was an outdoor music festival and this was shot in daylight. Maybe A. Kochanowski could tell us.

I like the shadows around her face, and that she looks pensive.

 

She doesn't look like she is dancing to me though. It reminds

me of a scene from Central Park in Manhattan on a sunny

Saturday afternoon with people doing various things like

walking, rollerblading, sitting, and thinking.

If the photographer were a student, which he is not, we would have much to talk about. Things to work on. However, POW is supposed to represent, in my opinion, at least above average work. What we have here is a fairly ho-hum picture with bad composition and poor technique, and totally lacking in real emotional content. The cropping of the right hand (actually both hands) is pretty bad and the blown highlights make it look like a snapshot. Then we add the funny looking grain (photoshop? bad print? who knows?) and the disinterested subject. Sorry, this one belongs in the reject pile - along with 99% of what I take.

The combination of cropping, film, exposure and subject is all too unorthodox. This photograph is trying much too hard. It's taken with a Contax that thinks it's a Holga/Diana.

I like this photo, and much of the photographer's portfolio. Standing alone, without caption or discussion, it does indeed communicate the existance of an inner world and that the girl is there, enjoying it. There is a seductive element that makes us wish that we were there with her, and that is communicated as well. Cut of hands, missing feet, burnt out areas, grainy film - Bah Humbug! The image communicates - 95% of all exposers don't do that for me, and many of those are "technically correct." Many of us don't believe in ourselves as artists - we must lack that inner spark of creativity or the "good eye" so we try to compensate by becoming technically as good as we can. But that chase leads us away from becoming better communicators, which Kochanowski has become.

I like the choice of infrared. I believe the DOF and exposure make this photo (never mind the slag against trying too be a Diana/holga)

If you wanted to maintain the close range with her face then it may have been a better choice to go horizontal instead of vertical. Her hands are probably more key to decipering her mood/movement than her (very nice) belly button.

Cheers,

Ian

Well, people may be dancing in the background, and this may

actually be in a club, but who cares if the image doesn't convey it.

And shallow depth of field always conveys a sort of isolation --

but "world-within-a-world"? The IR effect is interesting, but it's not

really adding anything that elevates the image.

 

Incidentally, I don't think anyone should worry about being honest

with their criticism. A kochanowski certainly doesn't pull any

punches in his comments of other photo.net images.

Hi, I totally agree with you that this photo doesn't deserve to be a POW. But I like this photo for the photographer's choice of the IF film and the grainny look. I like grain sometimes and it works in this photo. But the highlight at the right is too bright that it becomes total WHITE and that's something not appealing to me at all. I'm not too worried about the cropping hands because the main focus is on her expression that shows she's enjoying herself dancing among the people, but I will imagine this photo will look better with the hands in the frame as well.

Somebody said artists shouldn't consider too much about technique, I totally disagree with it. Photography is a mixture of technology and arts and that's what's so amazing about this. A poor exposed, composed + printed photo means a bad one, no matter how much potential it has to be a good one.

Nice work. She seems to be in her own world dancing to herself. I like potraits and event taken using balck and white. It gives strong feelings, not too many distractions of colour.

Time is definately a crucial factor here to make this shot. Excellent work !

Sorry, but I am at a loss to find any thing of value in this photograph. Grain is meant to enhance a picture, not detract - the skill is to choose your media with the light condition.

I like this image, it has a nice glow to it and I am a fan of grain. I have used this film myself (I have one example in my portfolio) and it is not easy. I assume this was shot outdoors through a normal red filter, if any, as I don't see much evidence or even any of the IR effect. What I do see is a high contrast, grainy B&W, something that I definitely like. To shoot for the true effect you need a real IR filter, one so deep red or opaque to normal light that you can't actually see through it.

 

I like the composition, don't like the white patches, love the grain. To go for a more user friendly IR effect try using Ilford SFX200, it only needs a red filter and has a fair turn of speed; I have tried pushing SFX200 by 2 stops and it works, you effectively get an 800 speed film but the results are definitely a matter of taste.

 

Keep up the good work, it is great to see someone trying to inject some real originality into their images.

POW has been degraded into a bickering and bitching sandbox.

 

Technically outstanding picture: Hey that can't be possible, how did he/she manage this shot? It must be photoshop.

 

Exotic outstanding picture: Why do all photos from india get high scores? It's not fair to those who haven't been in india to shoot a few rolls.

 

Unconventional picture: This does not follow the rules. It's not POW material. What idiot picked this?

 

Real masterpiece: I like it, but there are better ones in his/her folder.

 

I though this was meant as an opportunity to all discuss a different photo every week, learn something, voice an opinion, and see where our tastes stand among others'. It has become a contest. Not a contest of photography, but a contest of grudgery.

 

The damn photo has been chosen. Learn to live with that. Now let's discuss the photo.

 

I personally think this photo is quite strong. Unusual in many ways, but this does not lessen the impact. It is an interesting portrait. Portrature is about capturing one's world. The subject's personality sort of emanates from the picture. The feeling of the moment is captured. To me that makes a good portrait. Perhaps not the best I've seen, but still a pretty good portrait. I can't care less if the hand is cropped. If personality and feeling is there, the hands may go to hell or wherever else they want to.

 

I once heard someone say "the difference between photography and painting is that in painting you create by putting things in a rectange, whereas in photography you create by leaving things out of a rectangle". What we call composition is referring to exactly this creative process of leaving stuff out of our rectangle. Let it stay creative. Don't impose rules. The photographer here has broken "the rules" and it works. Let's not bicker and argue about how he broke them. Instead let's go out and break the rules our own way, and come back with our own rectangles.

I can live with the grain, although I don't think it enhances the portrait. But the cropping and the huge overexposed area on the right don't work IMO. Maybe if the shot had just been the face it would have conveyed the feeling better.

the photographer himself never talked from "This photo well communicates the world-within-a-world feeling of dancing." this is just the comment of the "elves". so the discussion should not be about this comment.

i think most things about a photography are about taste and this is not to discuss. there can be done a few suggestions and this is all.

i believe most photographers here stick to rules. a photo must be composed by the rule of thirds, must contain triangle, s-curves or diagonals or stuff like this. i consider those rules helpful to know, as i consider it necessary and helpful to know the techniques, but neither technique nor rules make a good photo. look at photographs that are world famous and that really moved many people emotionally. often they are technically bad and often they do not follow a rule, but they are just perfect photographs. i think the moment, the attitude and the idea are more important. and so, i really like this picture, even if it is "imperfect".

i have the feeling many users here critize not to give good suggestions to the photographer, but to just draw the attention to their own portfolio. it is the only explanation to many comments i read here.

I like this picture. The image draws my attention, it really wants to be looked at.

The (partial) overexposure may be accidental or not, I don't really care. It works for me, it is (or at least suggests) a real burst of sunlight.. Nice atmosphere in here.

 

The only thing I don't quite understand is why the photographer used IR film here. It is not functional, and I don't understand what people mean by "I like the IR effect". I mean, the IR effect is not visible. The overexposure and large grain can be achieved with a perfectly regular b&w film.

 

I read some comments suggesting that this shot was taken indoors ?!? No way... This is definitely outside. If not, I retract all my comments and would like to say "I really like the IR effect" ;)

 

Anyway: Nice work, but why IR?

I think the photographer was trying to capture both the dancer's

expression and the act of dancing. Unfortunately, one compromises the

other, since you want to get closer to achieve the first, and further

back to get the second. Perhaps the solution would be to shoot the

horizontal to get both arms and hands, and include a few background

dancers and make them a little sharper so we don't have to see her

feet. I assume this is full frame. What I would really like to see

are the contact sheets from this shoot. .

Clearly the photo oozes a sensual chemistry that celebrates youth! It is for me a tad bit grainy, but I write with certainty this was artistic intention by the photographer. I rate this a fair to good photo.

It's funny reading all the comments. I must go with my first impression. I don't think the grain is too bad considering it's in a dark club, the IF has a very natural effect compared to a cold hard flash. I like the way the photo made me feel because she seems thoughtful and relaxed considering she's surrounded by people and loud music.

Normally a huge crowd of people in the background would be incredibly distracting, but the combination of heavy grain with the smooth bokeh make it work. The two compliment each other very well, and the end result isn't distracting, but very pleasing to the eye. A mish-mesh of subtle values and gradations signifying that shes not alone, but in fact in a very crowded place, but it doesn't matter because the music is obviously lifting her to a higher realm where she can't be distracted by her surroundings.

 

Had the washed out areas been completely intentional, I could appreciate the aesthetic for which the photographer was trying to achieve. But, something tells me it wasn't intentional, in which case it becomes a pretty blaring mistake. Bob Ross might disagree, but I don't really believe in the "happy accidents" rationale. Was the tonal range too much for your film? If that was the case, and you had to choose between either the background being washed out or the skin detail being washed out, then you made the right choice. Otherwise, it detracts from the image for me.

 

Lastly, her stomach is a pretty key area in the picture, and I can't help but notice the developer/stop bath/fixer stain on her left side. Don't you hate that?

Personally, art wise, I cherish any/every picture taken as being an original. Some originals ring my bell more than others. Some of my pictures ring my bell more than others. However, they are all originals and all should be cherished. The camera captured a moment that would have been different from a camera located somewhere else. Thats why they are all originals.

 

That said, I like the B&W selection because it is capable to leave out any color from staging lights, which would have been distracting in this context. I do not find the picture too grainy, as it remained soft enough for a portrait usage. The hand cropping problem, reported by others, may result by the fact that this does not look like a deliberate controlled shot but rather an opportunistic live shot, where the photographer is at the mercy of what people do. I can live with that. And I can appreciate the effort required for the photographer.

 

For all that, I like the kind of discussions and observations that this picture is generating.

 

Congratulation on being selected for POW.

 

J. Berthe

I couldn't tell it's in a dance club or that heat is coming from bodies around her.

I shoot IR film on a regular basis- the grain doesn't bother me. As far as the subject goes it's an average shot. Aesthetically, it seems to be a quick shot hoping to be enhanced by the "ethereal" look of IR. Photo of the week- Personally, I don't think so. But, don't stop shooting AK.

This photo would not pass the test in the local photo club. Steven S. Miric

Doubtless true, if your local photo club is anything like the one in my region. I think photo.net should strive towards something more worthy than obsoleteness and closed-mindedness though.

The crop is indeed quite tight, and, if one insists that any photo of a dancer must show dancing, could be interpreted as wrong. But by this picture we are reminded that a dancer can also be human. Before the elfs comment was edited (i.e., deleted and another one written in its place), it emphasised the personal side of dancing. The movement which would have been expressed more eloquently by a wider crop is only a vehicle towards a certain state of mind. This photo seems to be an attempt to describe that state of mind rather than the movement which inculcated it. As such, I can content myself with the crops contents, though there is a slight messiness to the composition.

The lighting isnt intrusive, yet it does lend intimacy to the photograph through backlighting and shadow. Perhaps the subject isolation caused by the long lens is almost too obviously an attempt to enhance the impression that the woman is separate from the other dancers... But I can forgive a certain straightforwardness. Its good once in a while.

The title of the photo has been changed too (also by Brian?). I distinctly remember it was actually called e. I personally fail to see the point in pretending that she isnt tripping. Besides, the DEMF is an electronic music festival, so e was a catchy title with dual meaning. The title of Dancing Girl would work just dandy for a photo in a catalogue selling dancing girls.

A woman with beauty of this quality, and with an obvious awareness of it, could walk into a club in London or Paris and command all the attention she could cope with. She knows this. Yet she chooses to go to a Godforsaken corner of the globe and blend in with a crowd of hardcore dancers, all of whom are likewise interested only in their own bliss. Look at the photo with that in mind, ask the obvious question, leave your stubbornness with your doubt, and let your feelings flow where they may... Possibly, hopefully, you will appreciate the picture better.

This experience reminds me of the days a number of years ago when my friends and I were college seniors and applying to law schools. We sent out applications and waited. Then in May or so, little envelopes appeared in mailboxes. I had no idea then, and I have no idea now, why I got into some schools and not others, although some schools that turned us down were much easier to get into than schools that accepted me. Likewise, while flattered, I haven't the faintest idea why this pic was chosen. I happen to agree with some of the comments that a number of other photos I have are better.:-) This was taken outdoors at the Detroit Electronic Music Festival last June. DEMF is reputed to be the largest house-techno music festival in the world, sited in my hometown because it is considered the birthplace of techno. The photo was taken in the main bandstand, about 30 feet from the stage, at about 3:00 pm, with a hot, glaring sun. The place was crowded but not impossibly so. I was experimenting with IR film that summer and thought I would see how HIE would look in a place with a lot of gray concrete and no foliage. The shot was rated at 80 ASA as I recall, and as always with HIE I bracketed a few shots. I developed it with a fair amount of agitation to see how much grain would come up- obviously a lot. (Sorry, no PS here). I often scan negs in with the negative border showing as a reference to me so that I know if or what to crop when I print- this is the full neg, warts and all. I liked the young woman's expression and when the crowd in front of her cleared for a few seconds snapped three shots hoping to capture her (to me) expressive head and torso. There really isn't much more to the photo than that. I didn't think pulling back to add her feet would have added anything (and there wasn't much room to pull back anyway). And yes, I wish her right hand was about two inches closer to her body and that thing crawling out her nose was a silver ring. :-) Thanks for all the kind comments, and for those who don't like this as POW, relax, I doubt if the Appocalypse is appreciably closer. :-)

BTW, sharp eyes, the title was changed, by me some weeks ago. I was flippant with the first title and thought it unfair. Andrew.