Singin'!

My granddaughter in a choir, on an unlit stage in a dimly lit

gymnasium. So, max ISO, lots of noise, but I thought it lent itself to

what you see here, thanks to CS3 and a filter or two! I don't have a

real specific question about this one. Just want to know if it pleases

the eye. If so, I wouldn't mind knowing why and how... or why not and

how not! Thanks for stopping by.

I like this very much. I apprehend the noise in this image not as interference but as softness, an almost gauzy quality that I associate with innocence. It's a well composed shot, and your lovely granddaughter appears to be singing with joy and passion. Warm regards, Joe

I appreciate your very kind thoughts about this shot and I'm glad you like it. Emily was, indeed, singing with gusto and having a great time! Warm regards, David

David, it looks like a PR poster, and it is well treated taking into account the hard conditions. the grain adds here, as it is well scattered at the right places. I like the colors, and the frame works well in this one. Lovely present to your grandchild , David.

I'm so glad you like this one. Thank you very much for your encouraging comments! Warm regards, David

 

my "gut reaction" was "oh no no no!" A split second later I looked at it again and had a different reaction. The innocence, unself-conciousness, purity here are breathtaking.

 

So I went from "NO!" to "Lovely!" in a microsecond.

 

Splain that one to me, Lucy!

Could be the colors. I abhor most of the hues in the yellow family. Color is an immediate attention grabber and affects a great deal of the emotional response. Color is perceived/processed before composition, I think.

I've gone back and forth on this one, too. As for color response, I really don't know, but it seems like there are feelings associated with colors and I think they're processed and experienced differently by the brain than form is. But this is all just Seltzer's home-made theory. I'm glad you like this shot, and you know how much I appreciate you stopping by and taking the time to comment. Regards, David

 

David, we agree so we must be right! Ha!

Not a big fan of this one David. I am not sure of what your goal is here. As has been mentioned this has a highly graphic impact. So much so that it no longer works to my eye as a portrait of a young girl singing joyfully. Th eye being blank darkness and most of the face having no detail this could just as easily be a scream of anguish. Somehow the choice of colour seems to reinforce this feel to me. Now on another level strictly as a graphic and somewhat posterized image it is a good photo. I like the angle of the girls head in the frame and the amount of space the skin tone area occupies is perfect. The swoop of the neckline and the hard shadow behind the shoulder as well as the oval shape of the girls face gives this image a sense of geometry which strengthens the graphic rendition.The grain breaks down the facial expression but leaves enough information to leave something to react to, although I am thinking you have left this quite ambiguous which is good if this was your intention. I guess it all depends for me on what your intentions were. As a photo of a happy child singing in the choir it does not work for me.

Thanks for your honest opinion, not that I'd expect anything else! Not sure if I agree about screaming in anguish, but there's no doubt the facial expression is basically not there as any kind of guide. And I agree very much about the eyes... their lack of light is a disappointment. For me, this has become a "reasonably nice image," but far from what I set out to do. I have learned from doing this shoot that I really don't have the equipment I need for this particular type of venue. Oh, no! That means I'll have to buy at least one or two more lenses! This photography thing is just cruel that way, you know?! ;-)

 

I really appreciate not only your candor, Gord, but your detailed and instructive analysis of this image. Regards, David

LOL My short list of photographic equipment needs is staggering and well beyond my means. I'm frightened of what I may do when Canon finally tweaks the 5D enough that I have to own one. Full frame is going to entail lots of new L glass.... ouch.

 

I do not know enough about cognitive psychology to weigh in on any meaningful level with your " homegrown " theory, but my personal observation would support it. I think that my brain responds from different places when it comes to colour and shape/texture.

Anything you big boys grow out of, send to me!

Sorry but my 20D is going to get converted for IR if I ever move up to a 5D.

I think in part differently from Gord on this one, and of course it is legitimate, as we "read" images with our accumulated life experience( again, not personal Gord my friend....) I do agree it has a graphic quality, but her face IMO are having the posture of singing and not shouting.... her features are not showing pain or suffering , they are having less volume of a standart portrait, and thats why it looks like a poster for a singing event.I like the grain that gives some volume to the face,( her mouthand neck) her diagonal placement on the frame, and for me the yellow/light orange on the black BG brings light to the whole.

I find it a good result in a difficult situation, and even an interesting one.

You never have to worry about me taking your comments as personal. The great thing about PN is that you can post an image for critique and get a wide range of opinions to consider. I have the greatest respect for you opinions and your talents . I still remain in disagreement with your feelings on this occasion, and of course that is not personal either my friend :)

Thanks for stopping by. I'm always glad for your observations and suggestions, and flattered by your attention. I'm especially glad you see the posture and expression as I do. I appreciate your understanding of the photo conditions, and your strong encouragement. Warm regards, David

 

I, too, consider this more a graphic rendering than a photograph. That doesn't necessitate a value judgment on my part as much as plugging it into a different category. I happen to respond well to these colors. As a matter of fact, your color combinations are probably what works best here for me. There's a muted sense of color here, almost fall-like, in which her face emerges feeling lit almost as with sunlight. So it grabs my attention and I get a sense of warmth here.

 

Whether graphic art, photography, or painting, two things I most look for in an image are depth and depth of expression. While the face stands out well from the background, I think overall there could be more depth brought to this image. There could be finesse within the articulation of each section. The most obvious indicator of a photoshop filter is its universality, which to me is counterintuitive of the nuance and sensation I want out of art and photography. Note the green band that sort of outlines her face, between the yellow of the forehead and the purplish color of the hair, going all the way down and around her chin. There is no variation within that band at all. I don't know if you use photoshop's history brush, but that would be a beginning to how you could achieve a more refined look here, affecting the photo differently in different areas by your tools. Are there areas, such as the right cheek, that could have a suggestion of more detail? Could the bland shape in the upper left corner take on some dimension, same at bottom right?

 

As for expression, I agree with Gordon here. There is a lack of commitment both in the expression I read from the girl and in the treatment from the photographer. My guess is that if you put a completely different title on this, people would buy many different interpretations of this expression. If this were titled "Calling to God," I think you'd have people who could actually hear the church bells chiming in the background. If you called it "Yelling for Freedom" . . . well, you get my point. I say "lack of commitment" to differentiate that from "ambiguous." I think ambiguous expressions can be very effective and worthy, but there needs to be a commitment to that ambiguity. I don't believe this is there. What I think is missing here is the mood. The expression, for me, is having to work too hard and has no atmosphere or environment within which to work and which will support it. That is not untypical of graphic approaches.

 

I also agree that what's affecting the expression is the eyes. Even closed or heavily shadowed eyes can read expressively, but it takes a lot to get them to do so. Environment helps, as does sublety of shading, softness/focus, and especially the sense that there is something deep within those sockets, those shadows that hide the most telling of facial features.

 

I think we might all learn a lot from seeing the original, if you wanted to share it with us. I'm not sure it wouldn't have worked being kept a whole lot closer to how it came out of the camera, noise and all.

Your critiques are thorough and guided by quite a bit of ability. While I don't always agree with them, I always learn from them. Your honesty is especially refreshing. Sometimes, I don't like what you have to say, but again, I always learn from them.

 

I don't know how David feels about your critique, but it made me think. Thanks to both you and David for providing this opportunity continuing education.

It would be interesting and, hopefully, continue the learning process to discuss what and why you don't like that I've said.

Nothing about this critique, I was thinking more about general reactions. The problem is sometimes on my photos (well one, anyway!), I may not like what you've said but I can't say why. That tells me I'm just not yet willing to accept a photo I like is dreck. If I could say why I didn't like a critique it would give more credence to a difference of opinion based on reason, not "But I like it, so there!"

 

Back to this photo, I'm more interested in David's response and was wondering how he sees the feedback. I'm particularly interested in the photographer's "vision" and how it comes across.

I find your distinction between ambiguity and lack of commitment insightful and illuminating. To be honest, at this point I am uncertain of whether I was, in simple terms, merely being less precise or if I was giving benefit of the doubt. I could not read David's intentions and was uncertain of whether 'that' was David's intention or if I was just not seeing something, missing some visual cue. At any rate your comment has got me thinking about the two concepts and the very different connotations they carry. Ambiguous can have an air of mystery and suspense, creating a sense of tension. I do not believe the same thing holds true for lack of commitment.

Fred, I am so flattered that you take all the time and energy you obviously take looking at, analyzing and discussing my picture at such depth!

 

Now that you call my attention to it, I see an olive green band bounding her face, along the hairline, from ear to ear. I think I have a sense of what you mean by a "more refined look" but I haven't worked with the history brush. I'm comfortable with PS, but no expert, no way. I'll have to look it up and try it out.

 

OK, now you and Gord are ganging up on me! ;-) The photographer didn't feel committed one way or another, so "Singin'!" was chosen as descriptive and arguably cute. Truth is, I don't feel strongly about this image one way or another. Also, and very perceptive of you, Fred, Emily is often detached. In this situation, she actually likes the singing, and the expression, such as it is, is one of enjoying herself while still being a bit theatrical... and not terribly convincing! Add to that that Emily's skin is extraordinarily pale, and her face hasn't yet developed strong features. I wish I knew how to insert a pic here, instead of just at the end... anyway, I will post the original for you to examine, and I'll be very interested in any and all observations and suggestions you may have. (Keep in mind, you're looking at the best of a mediocre, at best, group of shots... poor light, lens was too slow, camera isn't great at high ISO.

 

 

The primary reason I am attracted to PN is for the learning, and that's much of the answer to Rachel's question. I treasure the feedback, and I keep squarely in mind that the critiques that are written are given as a gift of time, interest, desire to teach and help. After that, the body of the critique is information to be taken in and processed. The result is increased knowledge and some change, hopefully growth, in one's level of awareness, style and technical abilities. I think a learner has to be open to new ideas and perspectives, else why ask for anyone's critique?

 

And there was not an intent of ambiguity, Gord, but I appreciate your generosity. Simple truth is that I didn't seek to confuse or enlighten. I just took some shots of my granddaughter, Emily, at a school Christmas recital, and tried to make something presentable of the one I thought was the best of a marginal bunch of shots. I agree there is a wide divide between lack of commitment and ambiguity, and actually, both are about commitment, in the case of ambiguity being the purpose, the commitment is to continue to obscure and obfiscate, either to make others think, or to hide. Regards, David

Here's where Singin' started.

Thank for posting the original. the degree of crop explains much about the shot and your choices regarding PP.

 

"I just took some shots of my granddaughter, Emily, at a school Christmas recital, and tried to make something presentable of the one I thought was the best of a marginal bunch of shots."

 

This sounds like a perfect description of what I have been trying to do this week with a bunch of performance shots which I had to shoot at 3200 ISO with slow shutter speed. In fact they look much like your original photo of Emily. Trying to make lemonade when you find yourself with lemons ( referring to my pics , not yours ) can be a wonderful learning experience and an inspiration as well. That entire necessity being the mother of invention angle, comes into play in photography often. Other times as with a number of shots I took last week no amount of PP is going to salvage them and I just have to move on.

 

With a wider crop I could see plenty of room for experimenting further with this shot.