The Progression of Age--© John Crosley, 2007, All Rights Reserved

Frederic Pascual,

 

Fred, you have made me smile in a way only you could.

 

You are the one 'street' artist for whom I feel the most envy (not jealousy, but envy). You have the 'vision' for 'seeing' life's ironies.

 

It's a shame we can barely communicate because of your poor English and my poor French -- at least with words.

 

But with pictures, we surely can communicate.

 

I have missed your presence greatly -- you have left a vacuum on Photo.net by your absence.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you, mon ami.

 

(Submitted with great respect to a fine 'street' photographer with an appreciation of life's ironies and absurdities, what Cartier-Bresson would have termed 'surrealism' I think -- you are cut from the same bolt of cloth as Cartier-Bresson I think. Consider that next time you are in Hyeres, please. ;~) )

 

I tip my hat to a great street artist.

 

Thanks so much.

 

John (Crosley)

Thanks John! Well, I have celebrated my 30-th birthday couple of weeks ago! I can't say I am a gold digger. For a whole life I have been surrounded with elders, like from 10 years to 20, 25. Now, during my climbing on hills, I'm surround it with grandmas and grandpas. My buyers or clients are mature people, from 40 to 60 years old. For me it is a normal way of living. They are very much profound, wise with spirit inside, with great communication skills. I like it because they are complete persons. I tell you from my experience. With my 50 years old fiance, I feel like I'm at home, somehow.

About younger men, I'd say they are very hard persons. It's hard to catch their feelings, they are oscillating in their behaviour. I can't used to it. Unless they convince me in contrary.

You are lucky man, John, having woman under 30. I must say it is strange to me. Well, congratulation on that!

 

I like Cartier-Bresson very much. He is a father of photojournalism. He photographed only with Leica, and did such a lively and profound scenes of the streets and people.

Hello John,

I have often reviewed your portfolio and this is a well deserved picture of the week. Its the picture that speeks a thousands words. Inspirational. I spend my lunch time walking the town looking for bill boards and graffiti that would be a good back preparation for a street shot. Congratulations on this shot and a super portfolio.

You have another picture just like this that generated a lot of comments, most of them derisive, and most of them personal attacks on you. I remember it well. Perhaps seeing a picture just like it lessens the impact of the idea a tad. Aesthetically, though, this one seems more "tight", so to speak, and there's a Quassimodo quality to the gentleman walking by, and a Disney spoiled brat aspect to the laughing kids.

 

All in all, I'm not terribly impressed with this as a "Photo of the Week", as I believe you have SOOOO MUCH better and more meaningful images they could have chosen to stimulate actual debate about the human condition, rather than a somewhat vapid surface "debate" about camera angles and tones. But, for what it's worth, congratulations. Your works speak for themselves.

Carl Wakefield,

 

It can be a beguiling muse to find a great billboard or poster from which to begin a photo as a background -- it makes shooting interesting shots so much easier, I think, and it is NOT a gimmick -- it's been used for 60-70 years by able photographers, first for the photo magazines I read as a youth and even before that considerably.

 

I am certain you are enjoying those times you seek such things.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

John (Crosley)

Emmanuel,

 

That photo you refer to was the same photo, but not the same picture -- which is to say it was the same image, but not the same reproduction or place on a building. This photo is emblematic of a certain chain of stores that may stretch throughout Ukraine and which I pass frequently.

 

As to the personal attacks, well they spoke for themselves -- personal.

 

You are right, I think, about a Photo of the Week not being merelyfor congratulations, which have filled these remarks and one to stimulate discussion.

 

And also right, I think that I've taken many, many more good ones that would have stimulated that discussion. What you're addressing however, is the decision of the elves, and that is their business as I have little knowledge of the POW process, and frankly, look little at POW myself, since I am busy taking, posting and replying to the thousands of comments I get without POW.

 

But it is a high honor, nonetheless, and I won't denigrate it.

 

It is what it is.

 

Thanks for the kind thoughts, too, as well as your watchfulness.

 

John (Crosley)

Kristina V.

 

About age; my bio photo is several years old, and I was fatter then than it appears in the photo. A housekeeper took it before I started posting (1 year) on photo.net so that makes it about 4 years old. However, one thing that occurred by accident is that the dramatic shadowing happened to make me appear thinner than I really am; that turns out to have been an old photographer's trick that just occurred because I was standing sideways to a brilliant afternoon sun -- not anything well thought out.

 

If you go to the portfolio of Yevgenia Yemanova, my former stepdaughter, you will find a two or three year old photo of me, or two, if that folder still exists. She was 11 when she took the photos, and had a finely developed sense of photo aesthetics. Those were her first outing with a camera (wow! was all I could say). I was taking photographs as she photographed me.

 

But when I wash my hair, it's blonde, and although I long ago wore a full beard, I found that I look younger with a clean shave, and also since I never smoked a cigarette in my life (truth - pravda) I have suffered no deleterious (and well documented) effects from nicotine on any of my skin -- nicotine is well known to break down collagen in the skin. I also have no wrinkles on my forehead and just a hint of gray hair at my temples -- it's a genetic thing, I think, as my mother at 65 had a head of brown hair and she did not resort to 'rinsing' or dying her hair. Just good genes, I think and possibly not pushing myself in everything in life since I left attorneying 20 years ago. (What's the relevance to Photo of the Week, some might ask?)

 

Well, the fact is that I have made the point that slav and Eastern European people may see such a photo differently, a fact which you partially backed up when you, at 31 (or so) said you were marrying a 50-year-old; that would not have been looked askance in Russia when I married my second wife who when I met her was half my age almost to the hour and minute (shared birthdays), when we met.

 

But after a three year courtship mostly in Russia where I lived part time (in Moscow and Ryazan), when she came to America, American women started in asking her why she'd want to marry a much older man; women don't do that she was told, except for extraordinary reasons, and she 'could do so much better'. (That didn't stop Jackie O' from marrying Aristotle O'Nassis, for instance -- but in Western parlance, great masculine personal power -- and/or wealth -- substitutes strongly for age -- or at least that is Western popular culture on that, and thus Aristitle O'Nassis's vast personal charisma together with his fleets of ships and tankers substituted for the fact that he was both shorter (an anomaly) and much, much older than Jackie O'.

 

That planted seeds of doubt in my new wife (less than three months of marriage and in the U.S. at that, but just the day before her brain cancer was discovered, we had resolved that issue . . . I think for good.

 

Her parents, especially her physician father, still adore me, and I have an open invitation to visit them anytime in Russia, which I did (Eastern) Christmas a year ago, which I spent it with them and I intend to visit them again soon.

 

(this was in answer to your question -- and pretty much relates to how different cultures see things differently involving age difference between younger women and older men -- the theme of the photo, and how a Slav person such as yourself -- and maybe your fiance -- might experience this photo differently than an American or Western European.

 

My present girlfriend never plans to come to America, nor do we ever plan to wed, so those are not issues that are presented to us despite our vast age difference. And she does not stop either holding my hand in public or staring me in the eye with a loving look in public, in Ukraine; she is proud of her feelings and vice versa re: mine.

 

In America such a couple undoubtedly will be stared at, and sometimes quite rudely and the woman subjected to comments about 'her father' or in my case 'her grandfather' even if a person knows there is a romantic relationship -- just to show disapproval.

 

If as a couple you and your husband plan to come to America, you might experience such jibes. They generally come because Americans don't really know better or different than their own culture. They assume cultural superiority becuase they're 'Americans' and suppose being American provides moral superiority, is my experience in that subject.

 

(Hence again, the theme of the photo.)

 

I guess the point of this all is that the photo is not entirely universal in the way it will be seen by different audiences, and my and your own experiences relate to that and illustrate that.

 

What is acceptable and even promoted in slav culture sometimes is frowned upon severely in Western culture -- an America women generally tends to marry a man who is (1) about two years older or so and (2) about two inches to four inches taller. These rules are rather substantial, especially the latter, for reasons known only to God, I think.

 

In comments above, I said I was happy this photo made you think, and I see that has continued through this colloquy.

 

In my mind, that makes the photo a success.

 

My very best wishes to you (and your fiance) with wishes of much future happiness together.

 

John (Crosley)

 

 

Barry F.

 

I take a wide variety of photos, not all of which are shown on this service, but it's interesting to me that you see a 'Crosley feel' to this particular photo. It reminds me of member Matt Vardy of Canada, trying with difficulty to describe my 'style' since many of my photos were definitely lesser photos, but he said, together they all seemed to take on a new meaning (his comment is under my portfolio and I won't try to paraphrase it further; it's also a couple of years old).

 

I think Matt hit it on the head, but for reasons I cannot be sure about; I am interested you could see it was mine; I hope it wasn't just because of the poster behind, but because of something more fundamental . . . .

 

Thank you, Barry for such nice wishes.

 

John (Crosley)

Ive been to that city just after the fall of the USSR and it was like going back to the 1940s, Poor and little hope for the people in general for a prosperous life , money was almost worthless at the time I visited . This man that is most likely not as old as he looks (as many appear older due to poor food etc ). I liked many of the people in Ukraine ,but not their situation , I hope its better now for them .

What I find humorous is this guy is wondering why you want his photo,but offers a smile not knowing the whole picture as we see it, Cute capture ! Robert

Robert Grove,

 

I suppose you may have gone to Dnipropetrovsk because it formerly was a missile center, a nuclear center and a 'closed city'.

 

It has so many beautiful women no wonder the Soviets wanted to keep it closed.

 

It has since last Christmas a major shopping center downtown that is the rival of any western shopping center in a major metropolis, but 'street' life is different. Many people will never set foot in that center, but it's got a new breed of mall rats -- young hanger-outers for whom it is the center of existence.

 

But the 'street' life goes on.

 

This man is looking at me because I had fired my camera on 'C' (contuous servo) drive twice before, and he is startled, which obviously worked to my favor, and he is recognizing what I'm doing, which seems not to offend him too much.

 

After shooting such a photo, I just wheel around and start walking elsewhere, before I even chance a look at what I've got on my memory card. People are lazy and those who might follow or object find that it's just too much trouble to chase after me (though it has happened more than once).

 

One has to be careful on the streets, but this is in the center of the city's downtown.

 

And the city has a lot of wealth, though cleverly disguised as poverty -- houses and flats are amazingly expensive in better parts of the city, though it looks like heck, and apartment entrances (including mine with security) look like slums.

 

But anybody after my things has to run the gauntlet of security grandmothers (okorono babushkij), and then run into double metal doors just to get into my waiting area and everything double locked.

 

It pays to be security conscious with one's property, though crimes of violence are rather rare. If you leave something somewhere, it is sure to be gone.

 

(Though in Russia which exists on US money for savings, I once dropped over $1,000 (much more) on the floor of a bus and a woman stopped me and gave it back to me, and I hadn't known I'd dropped it.)

 

She also knew what it was, having seen such bills commonly.

 

There are good people all around.

 

(I suppose you were part of nuclear disarmanent before the Ukraine's gave up their nuclear weapons to the Russians. You don't have to confirm or deny. I ran in to disarmament teams frequently when I passed through Moscow's Sheremetyevo II airport, and was very happy at what they were doing, having practiced (uselessly) 'duck and cover' as a youth and even into my early and mid '20s, and lived near the Blue Cube -- the center of the US satellite security defenses that the Soviets would have targeted as No. 1 on their list (and me -- I would have been blown to smithereens.).

 

In part, this photo symbolizes the universality of our lives, even if he is looking older than his chronology. He sees a westerner taking his photo and he starts to smile and was in no way upset as he passed by. He, like many Ukrainians, probably was happy to be the object of positive attention, as the country feels nationally 'inferior' or so I am told.

 

Best to you -- you show how this photo raises more than questions of camera angles, composition, contrast, etc.

 

John (Crosley)

I'm not reading all of this. Not at this moment, HA

 

I am a fan of Johns but I saw my name and know what I wrote before the elves caught wind of this picture and then what John said again. wanted to state my case before others wrote something. Took a look again at this man and how he looked back at the camera (or whoever he really was looking at). I again say he WAS indeed in a smirk or smile not just with his mouth but with his eyes a bit. He was not in anger or upset but still seems to be ok with himself and what was going on. Ask John I read people pretty well.

 

I'll read all the other talk later. It's 1am bed time for me.

 

Congrats on the ELVES talk. :)

 

This picture deserves it. (happy dance for you, and yes I am up ~ the dog and I are actually doing the happy dance for you)

 

SMILING ~ micki

John!

I have visited the site of Yevgenia. I found Ivan the Terrible, the title of one man. Ivan means John, so I think that it's you. It's nice portrait of a handsome and careful man.

 

I understand an American culture when we talk about the relationship.

After all, I still have younger men who likes me and appreciate me in my environment. And are handsome, taller. But they don't know how to give me the feelings of being at home. As I mentioned earlier, I feel I am at home with my fiance.

In general, I have good relationship with younger men, in a friendship manner. I need a lot of time to set up the relationship that would be more then friends. And in my opinion, I don't have so much time that I would need it to create an American way of relationship.

Though, in my past I hanged on with younger, masculine men. But their primary attention were on something/someone else.

 

About the photograph:

His expression of face really talks about his present state of the pleasant feelings he radiates on observer.

Underneath of the ruined skin he gives the picture of his nation.

Well, this is for sure a very nice grab, where 3 people and mostly 3 EXPRESSIONS concurr (accidentally) in building a story - a story about joy and sadness, health and illnesses, money and misery. This picture needs no words attached nor anything else. It speaks very LOUD and we just can't miss the point. Is that a good thing ? Yes, I'd say so. Something more subtle, less obvious, more original, would generally have my personal preference, but here at least, it's all there, ready to eat, and quite perfectly captured. I find very important for the composition that the two girls are well behind him - "laughing behind his back" in a way. And good also that he's turned to the closed side - yet another good punch in that silly bag of "photographic rules".

 

About the crop... I'm not sure whether cropping was necessary at all, but once you started, why not crop a little more at the bottom, so as to get back into a 2x3 format ratio...?

 

Anyway, nice to see your portfolio again, especially this "bw then and now" folder, which I think is your best folder. Another picture I like a lot: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6430809

 

... and many more of course. Cheers.

i guess all has been said about this image - it is not my favorite of your amazing body of work though. as a street shot, this particular photograph shows the power street photography can develop. thanks for sharing your work on this site John, be assured it's highly appreciated.

John, every thing was said already, so I don't think I have something new to add,only say that it is a " classic" street image, and I mean a real street/life story , with a thought provoking connotation of human life, that you are so good at. Your images are "living" the street life. Well deserved.

This shot is really a great one and it carries a very good idea as well;the juxtaposition of the ages is very interesting.Even the direction to which the oldman is looking is different from the poster and the ladies'direction of looking that means again the two different stages of life with two different way of looking.I love the big smiles on the ladies' faces in the background and a thouthful oldman in the foreground.Bravo

I saw this guy today; if I can find him when I have a release in my pocket and a few extra dollars, this may get to be a 'released' photo. I'd be very happy about that.

 

Thanks to all the many who have had wonderful things to say about this photo and for all the many raters -- now numbering almost 70, for almost double that of any other photo in my portfolio and the second or third highest rated in my portfolio, which is gratifying for just a 'grab shot' that I posted second out of the two from that day's one-hour shopping and photo excursion. (I thought the other one was 'better' or at least more appealing- what do I know)?

 

Now copies of this one are plastered all over the Internet, and at a time when a good photo might get a few hundred 'views' (clicks now, instead of under the 'old system where we all got thousands of 'views' from thumbnail' this now has over 25,000 'clicks' -- actual views, and they're adding up at 500 to 1,000 per day presently, though that should taper off soon.

 

Thanks again to all my viewers of this photo and other photos in my portfolio (some of which I think are better than this one).

 

John (Crosley)

Where will be release? In a magazine or somewhere on the internet?

You have 25000 views per day?

Groovie!

Kristina Vidanec

I have seen the guy in the streets of Dnipropetrovsk, but I didn't have a release and an interpreter with me.

 

I need a release to sell this photo for advertising purposes; otherwise it can be used for almost anything that is called 'art' or 'editorial' use.

 

If I see the guy, I'll ask him to sign a legal release releasing all rights to his image in this photo. I have every belief that if I offer him a certain amount of money, he will sign that release, and then I can use this photo for anything at all in the world.

 

There are NOT 25,000 hits per day on this photo.

 

There were 25,000 recorded 'hits' on the large version of this photo as of the date of your comment; now there are nearly 30,000 and increasing at 500 per day to 1,000 per day.

 

It's fast becoming a 'famous' photo, for the 'street' genre.

 

In fact, I have no idea and never will have, of how many people have viewed the 'thumbnail' (small) photo. This service used to count each time a 'thumbnail' was sent from its server to a viewer who requested it, as a 'view'. Now this service counts only true 'clicks' which give the enlarged image.

 

I have a belief some web sites are 'linking' their own copy of this photo with Photo.net based on my analysis.

 

And since the photos are linked, if a person clicks on this photo on another web site, I get credit as having had a 'view' for my photo, which does NOT displease me (in other words, it pleases me).

 

However, I cannot endorse 'linking' through off-site displays because I do not think theat Photo.net actually allows conscious use of such things; and I never challenge the Administration of Photo.net on anything (it's a private site, and although I may draw many viewers here, that are over 100,000 photographers - members would just come in to fill my space if I were kicked out.)

 

I do think that even 500 or 1,000 true clicked 'views' per day is 'groovie!'

 

Thanks.

 

John (Crosley)

This photo is especially interesting because the girls in the background are in an ad, which makes for a clash of frivolous young consumerism laughing at old conservatism.

But that's just me!

I am not a professional photographer but I like what your photo says...

AB

excellent! i just hope the guy is aware of his primary role at least in composition of your photo.. congratulations!!

Wow. What a great juxtaposition of images!

But as you show here, John : Youth, today have the "fashion" smile : smiling only with the lips. The one really laughing, is the gentleman who is actually laughing with his eyes, therefore his soul : he is the wise one.

 

( and you have been even wiser to take this shot )

 

laurent

In this photo we learn a sad, subliminal truth about the folly of youth which rejects the wisdom of their elders. By virtue of the many years that older people have lived, they are our greatest asset. We can learn much from them, and shouldn't write them off as "out of touch" with a younger generation.

 

Congratulations on this very poignant photo.

 

Regards,

 

Tommy Yeargin