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"We've had our share of curious selections, silly selections, downright bozo selections . . . but this one takes the cake.

On the other hand, this week's pick for POW is so over-the-top atrocious that it stands a good chance as ranking as the all-time worst when everything's said and done, and while time can only tell on that (around here one never knows) it's a kind of positive sign, for, like a heroin addict detached and derelict on the same seedy street as this photo's subject we now might at least reasonably expect final release either way in a short while. A kind of happy spectre at that, when you think on it."

 

No one could possibly confuse this crap with an opinion... I just don't see why the moderator's are letting a small group of folks trash this part of photo.net. I assume the people that started this site intended a little more class.

 

Tris, don't bother attacking because I'm moving along now.

 

I'd hate to have the entire photo.net community see me ripped apart by your clever insightful prose ;)

 

 

I don't like the crop of the crutch and possibly foot at the bottom of the frame. It looks incomplete somehow because of this.

 

Personally for me this is an "almost" shot.

 

Just my $.02 worth.

Ive seen my fair share of begging, and know a lot of it involves trickery and playing on the emotions of wealthier people. I never give to any beggars, on principle, and that includes beggars with kitschy signs. I can only conclude this sort of sign must appeal to the uniquely sentimental attitude of the stereotypical American. Im actually surprised he finds more people give if they see him with a sign like that. If I give, I give to someone I know personally and hence am convinced really needs help. And I dont give cash, which can easily be spent unwisely (I dont blame them for this). I give food, time, etc. And I make it a point to always eat with someone I buy a meal for.

 

However, I am distressed and outraged that people are making the broad assumption that homeless people and other beggars are actually doing what they are doing out of their own desire. This is a ridiculous notion, albeit the easy way out for a guilt-free conscience. And you *should* feel guilty if you dont help the genuinely poor. Perhaps having worked with street kids in Belém has given me a deeper insight into the tremendous complexities of the lives of this despised class.

 

Anyway, the photo is bland and ordinary. The subject matter deserves much better, whether he is a con artist living the American dream or a lonely, hungry man at his wits end. I think shooting on the streets with a telephoto is viable, but not if you are intending to instigate some sort of communication and interaction into the photo. You cant do that from far away, whether or not the subject notices you. You are also more likely to raise barriers to revealing photography. Understandably, it is easier for a subject to feel negatively about you if you refuse to allow him access to yourself. Street photographers like to say its hard to shoot on the street -- I think this is to scare others off. (Of course getting really good shots is just as hard as in any other type of photography.) It is far harder to climb a mountain with a camera bag than sally down the street with camera in hand and chat to some people who would just love to talk. Though I suspect that if you bring with you the attitude shown by many on this thread, you would indeed find it difficult to do. But throwing off this air of arrogance is fundamental to your ultimate happiness as a person, regardless of your photography. So go on, I dare you! Believe that the poor can be worthy of your love.

Honestly, it's the same thing many weeks: people complaining on the POW choice instead of discussing the photo.. also, the observation that while technique and composition is often effectively critiqued, other aspects are less so - albiet with a few exceptions.

 

And Samuel Dilworth, so far I've only seen you dispend (rather harsh) judgement on photographs - I find it a nice surprise to see you vent the humanitarian sentiment I feel myself when reading the cynical and heartless judgement of the many that *every* beggar is a scam, a bluffer, worthy of no compassion.

 

As for the photo - I guess I'm still not jaded enough not to feel a stir at the text on the one-legged mans note. It may not be the greatest picture I've seen in my life, but it stirred me a little, which is more than most do.

 

On a lighter note, I saw a photo last year (just after the dot.com death) with a note that said "will code html for food". Had a few laughs at that one!

 

and yes, before anybody looks at my photos - I know, they're not Cartier-Bresson either.. Should try and get some of my newer stuff up once I get my hands on a scanner.

couple of observations:

 

-is it just me or are there alot of new voices, new posters this week?? if so, welcome to all. don't let the mean-spirited posts get to you. choose to ignore as you will, i do. (or enjoy as you will, some of the posts leave me rolling!)

 

*absolutely fascinating what this image is bringing up in people!

 

-feelings of manipulation from the man's sign

 

-whether this guy is "for real" or not.

 

-comments varying on how to care for the homeless

 

-whether it is appropriate to even take such images... "these people are not animals ina zoo!"

 

forgive me for playing OPRAH, but why is this image so volatile?? some seem unabashedly moved to compassion, while others are overtly repulsed. is it overly sentimental to some? is it purely the subject matter that is bringing out the diverse subjective experiences (naive or cynical, and everything in between) in each viewer?? or does this have anything to say about the quality of the image??

 

andre

I am amazed at the arguments raging over the homeless debate and whether the photo conveys the correct message or not and why. I personally find this image interesting as I do with the rest of Aldo's work, for I am lucky that I live in Australia where these sorts of images are not so "cliche" as someone put it (we have our homeless problems, sure, but obviously nowhere near as bad as you guys). For me, I feel that whether this photo is "technically" correct or not is of small consequence, because the image still portrays a strong message of suffering especially considering that it was taken in a country that speaks loudly on the world stage of "freedom, equality and justice for all" which leaves one to ponder over this image and wonder what cogs have broken in the American machine. Also I believe it is important to note that Aldo has captured a fleeting moment in somebody's life which I personally feel can sometimes be more impressive than staging one. But that is only my opinion.

helps...

Subject is quite used. This picture is strong, but the sense of praising misery and poowerty, in the picture, makes it almost like framed, or somehow doesn't make me feel so good. Too much not like from real life.

Hi all! My 2 cents is this is nice shot. Heads up or heads down.

 

Though, this photo makes me wonddr rather or not such photographs should be taken- then specially plastered on the internet. I maybe wrong but I assume the person didn't know he was being photographed. I am not sure I would want people taking my photograph and putting up on the internet without my knowledge.

 

I am curious to know how others feel. Feel free to email me privately if you like. -Thanks, Anthony Cordaro

email: anthony.cordaro@utsouthwestern.edu

 

 

This is a fine snapshot, but as for eliciting powerful responses, i think i've seen much better and more emotional shots than this one. The one by mike czepiel mentioned above is for sure better. There seems little originality here, I have a hundred similar images in my mind.

Poor is a relative term. Is there poverty in America? Absolutly. Does it, for the most part, come even close to the poverty I've seen in Honduras, Russia, and Ukraine? No

 

Ahh the joys of competitive poverty (I feel like I'm back at U. Florida listening to anthropologists yell back and forth as to who has seen more misery). One need only to traverse the American south (especially parts of Houston, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, and rural Louisiana and Mississippi) to know that poverty can be worse than hell even in the U.S.

nice pic, you can never tell about these people, if there real or not.

Interesting discussion.

 

I spent last Xmas working in a homeless shelter in London (we had about 800 or so 'guests' in during the week). Volunteers were not allowed to take any photographs, and I'm not sure that the official photographer took that many (with permission of course). This really made me think about the necessity of photographs (and photographers); sometimes their ego seems more important than their subjects. Somehow, taking photos for any other reason than promoting this particular charity's work seemed wrong.

 

The only problem with this photo is that it has been chosen as POW. Outside of POW it is just another provocative (not technically perfect, but so what?) street photograph. However, in POW (with the Elves' trite comments ['this made us think' gimme a break!]) it becomes vulnerable to charges of voyeurism, explotation, egoism, etc. The sad thing is that isn't the photographer's fault; he apparently isn't on a moral mercy mission, but the Elves' selection and naff comments make us prejudge that he is (and then the poor guy has to turn up and justify his intrusion).

 

A tip for the Elves:

 

In future, try and choose POWs with less controversial or emotive content. For me POW is about technicalities and aesthetics, NOT ethics. The last thing a POW thread needs is a 'should this photo have been taken or not?' debate. It's impossible to technically critique this photo without trivialising the subject; therefore, it should not be POW.

 

Oh, and keep your pretentious, 'Oooh! Isn't this a 'great' photo of a homeless person!' comments to yourselves.

Mark, I think your comment is very sensible. Actually, my understanding is that the POW selectors are supposed to avoid photographs with content that would provoke "political" discussion. The reason I believe this is that one time by chance I was involved in a chat room discussion where some of the elves were lurking anonymously, and people were asked to "nominate" photos for POW. The "no politics" rule was mentioned.

If you have something critical of a personal nature to say to the photographer, have the guts and the courtesy to do it offline directly to that person.

 

I agree with previous comments that this forum was intended for *constructive criticism* on the photos, not lengthy BS diatribes by people who like to argue and hear themselves talk. I think some people would rather this forum be about literary exercises rather than photography. Plese spare the rest of us who are interested in photography.

 

Congrats on POW. My main criticisms of the photo is that the upper left portion is very bright and distracting compared to the rest of the image, and the photo would really benefit from some basic PS cleanup -- remove all the dust and particles, and maybe rework the contrast a bit. As for the subject matter, it has already been said that it's very hard to create strong images of this subject that aren't cliche by themselves.

"On a lighter note, I saw a photo last year (just after the dot.com death) with a note that said "will code html for food". Had a few laughs at that one!"

-- Jonas Bengtsson

 

Do you mean this photograph, Jonas? I remembered it was on my friend's website, Flophouse.org

exactly R.J.! some people should get focused again, on what this is really all about. and it is to give some fair comment/advice/opinion/tip and even ratings about the photo! not such personal comments(partly psychoanalytic, partly samaritan, partly omniscient)!

 

if we don't, here is the ridiculous result!

 

have the capacity to understand.

 

Just wanted to thank Mark & Brian, as well as RJ, for bringing back some dignity in this page. If this is a photography forum, let's talk about photography. This isn't the place for politics and no place is the place for arrogance. All we are entitled to, in this forum, is to have an opinion about a picture, a composition, a lighting, etc, and to defend it as long as it remains a courteous discussion... And each of us should remember that his opinion is just an opinion... that would help... If that basic courtesy rule isn't applied here, then I won't have any mood to come here to discuss anything, and I am sure I'm not the only one to think that way... So, please... a small effort...

Aldo,

 

First of all, I should congratulate you (I forgot before, sorry!) on your POW. Be glad to receive so much feedback on your work. No need to feel like a victim-of the-week, I think.

 

Many postings ago (it's impossible to keep up with them!), I gave my honest (but maybe somewhat rude) opinion on this particular POW. Maybe you missed it, but my criticism was mainly directed to 'the elves' for selecting a relatively poor quality picture, at least in my opinion. As a kind of upset reaction on my criticism on your POW, you referred to one of my pics (among other ones) as an excellent one, albeit meant ironically. Although I don't think this is the place to react on pictures that aren't directly related to the POW, thanx anyway for your opinion!

 

Since I noticed that people can become really upset when you give them below-average-ratings, I decided some time ago that from then on I'd better explain in words why I don't like particular pictures; no need to add ratings. High ratings seem to be kind of self-explanatory (I've never received a private mail from people who wanted to know why I gave them an 8 or higher; I DID receive several from those who received lower ones). By now I realize that no matter how you express your criticism, as soon as you do people can be easily upset. Should I just shut up, unless I applaud (something I DO like too)?

 

Try to have fun on this *photo* site, to learn from each other, and keep on smiling ;-)) WJ

 

Aldo, I found the photo offensive because it was claiming to be something that it is not (in my opinion). If it is a slice of life shot, as you say, than only from the perspective of a tourist. It is distant. You can get upset, insult my photos (oh, no!), but that still is my opinion. When I had my first photo critique (in college), I presented the same sort of photos as you (distant shots of wretched people). I was torn apart by all of the instructors. They claimed (and rightfully so), that to do street photography you must be there, in the middle of it . I almost cried ( they were rather harsh ), but when I got home, I thought about what was said. It was in fact true. I wanted to get good shots, but only from a distance and without commitment. Next semester, I took heed of that critique, and as a result, my portfolio was voted best of both undergrads and grads. There is no spite meant. It is simply my opinion, built up from experience.

If the purpose of this thread is to share our work and to learn from each other (as I had believed it to be the case) criticism is not only to be expected, it is to be welcomed. I don't have a problem with criticism (although obviously one does reserve the right to consider the "source" of the criticism). What I do not tolerate are posts from a miserable few who decide to personally attack me because they disagree with the elves' choice of POW. That is what triggered my response. Just for the record, my personal "choice" or "preference" among my photos happens to be "Street Dancer". The picture selected was always intended by me to be viewed in the context of a "documentary collage" along with the other depictions of homeless people which I had uploaded at the same time to my site. This is not "intended" as an "excuse" for flaws (technical or otherwise) one might find in the picture as it is evaluated on a stand alone basis. That's what I was trying to convey (in the "comments" section of the picture) when I initially posted the picture. regards

Aldo,

 

Just hoping you don't consider this "source" too suspicious.

 

Take care, WJ

Ah yes, must be from America: the greatest country on earth. Greatest health care system, greatest homeless population, greatest ignorance of other systems, greatest president .

This photo does not attract me in an aesthetic way, but boy does it spur some arguments! I could add my take on homelessness here, but who really cares what I think on that issue? I want to see what is going on around this man, see his surroundings, see where he's walking to or from, see other people's reactions or non-reactions to him... I think frame is too closed in around him to make it an interesting photo. The sign just isn't enough for me.

That said, congrats on POW, Aldo! ;)

P.S. I left out that my favorite of your photos is The Human Condition. It gives me something to play with in my head. I hope there was a nice breeze that day. I like it a lot!

Thanks for your criticism of the picture. Well thought out analysis....By the way, why don't you leave your criticism of the U.S. for another thread, jackass. I'm willing to bet we salvaged your country's sorry ass a few times in the past.