Oktoberfest, 1975

I love the look on this guy's face. You've caught him out! For me it's definately the spontaneity that makes this photo. Well done. I also appreciate the way in which the graininess accentuates the seediness of the setting. Fantastic slice of life.

Tony,

 

I like this photo for various reasons:

 

I was born in Munich and of course I been to the Oktoberfest and most likely I've pissed in this place several times, although Augustiner is a *MUCH* better beer than Pschorr Bräu (which is the correct spelling, Bräu meaning brew). The last time I've been there was probably 3 years ago and they still have the same pissoirs and the guys have the same looks on their faces, so you really took a timeless shot of a timeless subject.

 

This picture takes me immediately to a familiar place and gives me a fresh look of it (which on the other hand is nor hard to do as most likely I was as drunk as everybody in this picture). This is one of the best things I can say about a photo.

 

What makes this picture even more remarkable is the fact, that Australian guys at the Oktoberfest are usually so drunk, they can barely lift their mugs. You either managed to lift the camera and properly frame a good shot despite being drunk or you managed to stay sober in this place. Both achievements can be properly honored only by people who know the Oktoberfest.

 

I'd just wish the grain was a little less obtrusive.

Catched ;-) I would like to have an allert, when you download a new one ;-), seams I was not here since a long tme, big falut ;-) I hope you share a lot more you have, and I know you have a lot more in your pocet ;-)

Yes, the grain in the JPEG is a bit obtrusive. In a larger print it is less so... more a part of the photo, than operating against it. The 800 ASA rating probably wouldn't have been necessary here, as the scene was well lit, but how was I to know it would come along?

 

This was one of the few occasions when a subject of mine has become agitated. He was more than agitated, he was bloody upset. The usual smarmy smiles and blokey winks didn't work this time. He was gunning for me. Just at that time a small gnomelike man called Helmut Schulter intervened to save the day. He spoke English and negotiatied a truce between me and his compatriot. I had my eye on the umbrella all the time and had been ready to receive a blow from it momentarily. However all was forgiven in return for a promise from me to send a print. Sadly, I had my wallet (containing my diary with the address) stolen in England a month or so later and could never fill the order.

 

Helmut then took me and my American girlfriend under his wing. I think it ws more down to my girlfriend, as she had beautiful blonde hair, drank beer like a fish and in general captivated Helmut. She was an honorary German! Incidentally, her married name is now "Fish" and she remains a best friend. We visit and write often.

 

We stayed in Helmut's flat in the Schwabing district for three days and nights. He had another boarder, an intense English artist whose name escapes me now. Together they looked after us like we were royalty. The crunch came when they dropped us off at the autobahn entrance ramp.

 

Helmut, leaving me with the backpacks, put it pretty plainly to my girlfriend that if she were to decide to stay in Munich with him and the English artist, that that eventuality would not be any problem at all. To my relief she refused, but it was pretty touch-and-go there (at least in my mind) for a couple of minutes, as we had only just taken up together a week or so before. I have a photograph of the exact moment before the proposition was made. Maybe one day I'll post it.

 

We hitched our way out of Munich and headed for Paris, where many more adventures awaited us (mainly being broke and trying to survive on dry baguettes and cheese until the bank came through with the T/T I had requested from Australia).

 

Bernhard is right about Aussies at Oktoberfest. They are mostly too drunk to stand up. Me? Our friend with the umbrella sobered me up pretty quickly. and the fright of it all kept me that way for quite a time.

 

 

Well excuted!!!

This shot is perfect in every way. I am really glad you re-posted it. It is just really hard to imagine you were about my age when you took this. I'll be taking a trip this summer to Europe after my graduation. Your photos have been a great source of inspiration. Thanks!

NOW, we are talking 'decisive moment' !

.....Don't look.....Sorry....This a story for men....

Tony, I've admired your photographs ever since discovering photo.net early this year. Your capabilities are impressive and are at a level that I will forever be condemned to critique since, truth be told, I don't think I have the requisite passion to master the medium as you have (at this point, photography remains a hobby).

 

Now, having said all of the above, I think your skill has worked to your detriment here. On initial inspection, the photograph has all the hallmarks of a true "Dummett". Balanced composition, excellent exposure, and a truly "candid" moment. However, in this instance, I must ask "what's the point?" Like most red-blooded males the world over, I am all too familiar with the scene portrayed (i.e. get progressively more "bombed" as the day/evening wears on, eventually bust the "gasket" and then spend the rest of the evening every 30 minutes or so "paying the rent").

 

If you are attempting to point out the absurdity of this regrettfully common ritual then maybe I stand to be corrected, and perhaps I need to look at this photo with a different set of goggles (preferably not those of the "beer" variety). But to me, this picture communicates very little apart from the obvious - the obvious being that the central figure of the study is clearly surprised by your presence (and apparently not very happy either) and that there are a great many men taking a whiz at the same time. There is another photo in your portfolio of a disadvantaged and very anebriated older gentleman which I think is a far more powerful "social documentary/commentary" shot (and apparently said photo has caused you considerable moral angst over the years).

 

Given the comments to date, it would appear that I am the lone dissenter on this photo, but nonetheless, would you care to comment upon your intent for this photo. Am I missing something? Is there anything to be missed?

 

 

Thanks for the question, Nick. It's a good one.

 

This was my one and only night at Oktoberfest. We had hitchhiked from Geneva but got held up at Kahlsrue when we ran out of rides (unfortunately this was at midnight and it was snowing and we slept in the forest... I can still feel the chill in my bones). So we lost a day.

 

I wanted to shoot a lot of pictures of the Oktoberfest, but I had only this one night, and this one tent. I had been thinking about writing an illustrated article on the festival, and for that I needed a good selection of pictures. So I photographed everything I could get my eye to, including the pissoir. I was pretty pissoired too, myself, after about three litres of beer (I am what they call over here a "two pot screamer" - three pots is one too many), so I guess my judgement was affected a little and I picked the wrong subject (as described a couple of posts above).

 

But you ask what it was that grabbed me about this scene. Well, it was the fact that everyone was trying so desperately not to look at anyone else, or catch their eye. The faces are either cut-off or looking away (and not from me.. .that's just the way men arrange themselves in a latrine). That struck me as funny at the time, and still does. Not hilarious or side-splittingly funny, but "chuckley" (if there is such a word). The single most striking thing about pissoirs the world over (at least to me) is that no-one chats. As such, I thought this photograph would make a valid statement on that phenomenon. It's not an earth-shattering statement, but I think it's a true one and worth documenting. When the guy turned around it gave the picture some counterpoint.

 

I shudder to think what would have happened if, instead of taking his photograph, I had gone up to him, smiled, and in my broken German offered to hold his umbrella for him... you know... so he could get a firm grip on things. With two hands free to do great physical damage, I think he would have throttled me properly, instead of just waving his brolly about and shouting lots, whilst simultaneously having to maintain close attention to the job at hand (as it were).

 

On "social documentary" photographs in general: I don't believe it's necessary to always shoot train disasters, wars, grinding poverty, pitiful derelicts near to death by cirrhosis, or to shoot portraits of famous people doing amazing things. There is richness in the mundane, if (and only if) you can make it interesting or definitive with the application of what could be called "photographer's wit". That's what I (and others here on photo.net in the same genre) TRY to do - not always succeeding, or even coming near to success, of course. If I DO see a train smash or a famous person, naturally I'll try to snap off something deep and meaningful, but sadly they're not always to the fore in real life (and I don't fancy putting myself into too much danger of the "life threatening" kind, so war photojournalism is "out").

 

I try to build up a portfolio of images that tell a story about how I see life. I try and make each one as good as I can make it, of course, but don't sweat too much when not every one of them is a candidate for the Pulitzer prize (you'd be right actually to say that NONE of them are!).

 

If the photograph fails, then you're a complete idiot...sorry...I've been reading too many Schulerisms... just kidding. If the photograph fails then next time I must try harder, that's all.

 

I hope this explains some of "where I'm coming from" in the style of photographs I like to take.

 

Thanks for the question.

I hope you got them all to sign a model release ;-)

make one think. both photo and prose. thanks.

I'm with Nick on this one. This photo is pointless and uninteresting, and anyone with a high threshold of pain and an adolescent sense of humor could do as well, any Friday night, in any (big) bar, in any city in the world. It is the photographic equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel, and I find your rationalizations to be inadequate.

If you want to take such photos, that's your business, but I don't know why you think it's something worth exhibiting, unless you're actually 13 years old and Tom Green and Howard Stern are your heroes ... t

I guess you don't like it then, Tom?

As to "inadequate rationalisations": they were true. At least I had THAT in my favour.

 

I suppose I could have lied and made the image into some kind of existential manifesto on the Human Condition, but really all I wanted to do was attempt to take a representative picture of a group of guys pissing in a public urinal - one the most common, necessary, everyday actions of every healthy human being on the planet. Is it TOO common an occurence to photograph? Should we shy away from such grotty subjects? Perhaps a photo of a dying child, or a lynching, maybe a car accident would have been "adequate" enough for you? Real drama there, Tom.

 

As I rationalised away, writing my philosophical tome in support of the image, it could really skyrocket me into Adequate Heaven.

 

So sorry I didn't come up to your standards of "adequacy". In fact, sorry I didn't realise that you had set any (standards, that is) that I should have realised I needed to live up to.

 

If it's so easy, go take one yourself and we'll compare notes.

 

 

Im disappointed by seeing such a nasty picture shown by a top photographer in this site who is apparently capable to shoot decent photos.

Positively Hilarious! I don't know if I could have pressed the release. How could anyone rate this less than a 7 for originality?

The look on that guys face is priceless! As Charles said up the top a Fantastic slice of life. Tom, whats wrong with a sense of humour? The day I lose mine is the day I stop living. If you cant have a laugh at the everyday (and natural, Ellen) things in life then you dont have much to laugh about.

I suppose it was a rainy day, right?

You don't want to try this in Texas!!

This is an offence to male privacy, but I like it nonetheless.

I get the point of this shot. As a matter of fact, from reading the comments here, most people should get the point. Just look at how many different emotions and opinions were drawn out in less than 20 separate comments! If you think of how 'common' the subject of this photo is, would you really expect that?? I think Tony did a superb job and should not have to explain his reasons for taking this photo, whether he was blasted or not! Bravo!!

I'm adding my vote to the "this is not cool" side. Contrary to one of the other dissenters, however, I'm not strictly opposed to exhibiting this photo 25+ years after the fact. (There is nothing deeply incriminating about using a urinal.) And it's a good photo. But the subject would have probably been justified in putting his umbrella to use (taking care not to harm the Nikkormat, of course).

 

Maybe I'd buy it if this subject wasn't visibly upset about being photographed. But if that were the case, maybe there'd be no photo?

You had to beer there (nyuk, nyuk).

 

I just don't know how you can take a shot of a urinal in use without upsetting someone, or sneaking the pic through a hole in the wall, which at the time wasn't a philosophically correct approach for me. Imagine if I'd been sprung peeking through a hole in the tin walls toting a camera. No... "I faced the enemy", man to man.

 

The thing about these places is the efforts people make not to have eye contact. From what I hear, womens' lavatories are social places, with everyone chatting and laughing. No threats. Not so mens'... There's a brutal "get it over with, and get out as quick as possible" atmosphere in pissoirs.

 

It's like being in an elevator with half a dozen other people, only your zipper's undone as well. You can't wait for the experience to be over. You can't even go, "Ahhhhhhhh....." when you empty a bladder full of beer, lest the other strangers sharing the space think you're doing "something else". That's what I was trying to photograph: the tension. I had an idea for an article on Oktoberfest, and you'd have to admit: peeing and drinking beer really are inseparable activities. Truth in photojournalism? Hmmm... maybe.

 

The anonymity of the men with their faces blocked off appealed to me, with the one guy looking straight into the camera in stark counterpoint. Then again, maybe he was just annoyed because I took his picture.

 

Perhaps we could discuss the concept of bringing the Oktoberfest to the viewing audience, warts and all. Perhaps some of the people who were offended by the pic don't like to see victims of the Coalition in Iraq blown apart into various body pieces as well? Of course this is much more benign a scene, but it has all the elements of a pissoir in it. Distasteful reality? It's a tough world out there, baby. This pic is a gentle reminder of that, without too much yukkiness.

 

Yada yada...

 

The real reason for making this pic is probably as follows: it seemed like a good idea at the time.

As usual Tony, your image is impeccable. Every single one of your images I look at I wish I had your gift for transfering life onto film to paper and to here for us all to enjoy.

 

So on to this image: its excellent of course. I can imagine the grin on your face as you examined your contacts for the first time and saw him looking right at you. And you are absolutely right, it shows the awkwardness we all experience everytime we go to use a urinal.

 

My final comment is to express disappointment at the comments by Tom, who is an excellent and experienced photographer in his own right. To say that there are urinals all over the world where anyone could take the same picture is something you expect from a rank beginner. One of the earliest things i taught myself was that I should never look at a picture and say "hah, If I was in that situation I could have taken that" because the fact is that I wasn't there and I didn't take it.

I too am a little disappointed by the negative comments I have seen regarding this photo. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think this photo captures a unique moment and is a great photo just for that. The exposure, composition, etc are also great, but what really "makes" it for me is that the moment has been captured so well. Bravo.