Ras Nungwi Beach

Congratulations Marielou. I did not see it before ,but I like the juxtaposition of two modes of transportation, where the camel not exactly belongs...being what is called "the desert boat"...

 

Right that you have many very nice images, well this one imo is a nice travel image with a touch of humour.

Although the image is taken in such a harsh light, you have captured good colors!

+Lalit

"Does every shot have to be a postcard or have commercial value or even artistic value? This shot shows that particular moment in the world, and does so very well. Isn't that enough?" Bill Foster

 

THAT is a good point you make Bill. I certainly cannot disagree with you from that point of view. Perhaps as a photographer that does earn a living, my own point of view has been somewhat altered. I too take plenty of images for just personal use that would have no appeal commercially whatsoever. And I am not saying this image has NO commercial appeal by the way. Perhaps since this is a POW, I have taken a more critical approach than I would normally. From the standpoint you mentioned above "This shot shows that particular moment in the world, and does so very well." you are very right indeed. As a documentary photo, street shot and even travel image it does successfully show an interesting contrast of activities and well captured at that. As for fine-art, and in my opinion, in terms of marketability, I would still like this better without the people and perhaps also without even the camel.

 

Thanks for the thoughts, this is how we improve.

I notice you are much concerned by each POW and this is a good point for you.

You have your own view on each of them.

As I am concerned by this one let me have a question : who asked this could be a fine-art picture ?

This is a travel picture and some witness about how tourism works at Zanzibar and moreover in this region of East Africa coast.

Without the two guys and without the camel this picture would say nothing and would just be a postcard from a beach from anywhere around the near equator world.

Did you read my words above ?

Thank you

Perhaps you did not read my last comment Marielou. Here, I did say this:

 

"As a documentary photo, street shot and even travel image it does successfully show an interesting contrast of activities and well captured at that."

 

I believe I also said that because I DO sell fine-art (as well as stock) my point of view may be somewhat altered here. In other words I am looking at this from those points of view since this is what I do. From my OWN point of view here then, I personally do not believe this would succeed as fine-art anywhere. That's just my opinion. The placement of the people sort of ruin that romantic or tropical appeal for me. Even for stock use, I doubt it would have that great of an interest, for the same reasons. Though I will also add it could be used in some situation, just that the position of the people could be much improved if this were staged specifically for a stock usage photo.

 

You also said this:

 

"Without the two guys and without the camel this picture would say nothing and would just be a postcard from a beach from anywhere around the near equator world."

 

Right or wrong, that is the same point I was making Marielou. At least this way you could actually make an income from the image. And I even ammended my point of view to include the camel without any people. That too could work as a postcard, possibly fine-art and yes even for stock. In other words, I believe this could be used commercially, to make money, with those adjustments. Perhaps as Bill mentioned THAT is really not what's important here to you or anybody looking at this. But from somebody that is looking to carve out a future in this business exclusively, then it definitely could make a difference. Thanks again.

I am very much ipressed with the Marc G and Vincent show as usual on photet. They are strnage bedfellows like a maried couple always fighting.

 

but this photo is good. only sometimes a person wnats to make it there own photo and decide if it is not like the photo they take then it is not good. I think it is a photo of unique kind not like what we see all the time. That is call risk. taking a risk is what good photos are of. Other photos that are not about risk are not of much interst excpet to go ahhhhhh ohhhhhhhh ouuuuuuu. this photo does not show us something diffrent about the life or the sea but is a nice justaposition between the camel and the sea which we dont see all the time.

You funny guy !

and the funniest is your way to see Marc and Vincent discussion.

 

To Vincent,

 

We never will have the same point of view because for me time is NOT money -as I already said - Time is pleasure. I don't make pictures for money. You do. great difference between you and me and that makes us in radical opposite worlds. So sorry to never meet you anywhere... big smile boy......!!!

Whoa! so much discussion! To me, this is definitely a very interesting photo, not the typical beach scene. Congrats to Marielou Dhumez for taking this and on a wonderful portfolio!! Many thanks to the elves for uncovering such a talent. The POWs are getting more interesting these days.

"for me time is NOT money -as I already said - Time is pleasure." Marielou D.

 

Cool. Good for you too Marielou. However, if I had that approach, I'd probably be living in a van down by the river...

 

"I don't make pictures for money. You do. great difference between you and me and that makes us in radical opposite worlds." Marielou

 

Not really. I take pictures, you take pictures. I edit pictures, you edit pictures. I post pictures, you post pictures. I get paid for my pictures, you get to lay out on the beach and get your picture taken. We really are not that opposite now are we?

 

Aloooohaaa!!

Thank you Vincent, for your reply. This discussion is now echoing another that is taking place at: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00DxSA also started by Marc, who seems to be everywhere! That discussion questions whether commercial photography can be art and we are now discussing what the purpose of photography is and how it affects the validity of the photo. As Vincent astutely points out, if you make your living doing it, I imagine that's a strong motivator. Knowing that your lifestyle depends on making images that people want to buy is going to affect your style drastically, probably in good and bad ways. However, for me at least, the main person a photo has to please is me and if I took this, I would be pleased. For me, that's validity. Maybe it's commercial prospects are limited, but to me, it just doesn't matter. It's pretty. I like pretty. Simple as that.

One more thing occurs to me as far as commercial prospects and the POW. We see pictures isolated here, as a single entity. However, pictures are often in books, in exhibits, calendars, etc. Here, they are often in presentations and folders. Does the context matter? Would this picture have commercial value as part of a series of shots of Zanzibar or tropical beaches or camels or the sociopolitical implications of tourism? I know I have a series in my folder that goes together and the individual pictures don't get great rates, but when you see them together, I think they work. I can certainly imagine this as part of a series and I could see it selling. Finally, we should keep in mind that we are in a judging frame of mind when we see a new POW. That is a completely different experience than viewing it in a portfolio or on a wall somewhere. If I saw this on a wall of a travel agency without thinking "OHMYGOD THIS IS A POW IT MUST BE GREAT" I would probably fall in love with it. I think we (meaning me also of course) should keep this in mind. Most of us view POW as an award, as the site Gods saying, "This is worthy." In fact, as they point out, they just select something that they think people will discuss. They certainly succeeded this time.

Marielou, congrats on a POW and on an interesting discussion. The image is quite unusual and refreshing. That stupid line crossing man?s head is the only nitpick, although minor one. To me a version of a camel completely loaded but abandoned as noted above indeed looks pretty strange, a kind of ?World War III survivor?. Well, tastes are different?To watch your diverse portfolio is always fun for me and not only for me. I?m happy that the POW also helps to switch attention of many from the things ?floating on TRPs? to real things. Marielou, congrats once more and continue having photofun.

 

Bill Foster:

?However, for me at least, the main person a photo has to please is me and if I took this, I would be pleased. For me, that's validity?.

 

Exactly! Absolutely agree with Bill. He said what I actually feel when preparing to and taking any picture. When I realize that the image captured is pretty close to what I want than the time is really a great pleasure.

 

Amélie *, I think Vincent underestimating creativity of others. Your version looks busy, but I?m sure it would be a bestseller.

"Knowing that your lifestyle depends on making images that people want to buy is going to affect your style drastically, probably in good and bad ways". Mr Bill

 

Actually once you get started in the "business" of selling photography, you better catch on rather quickly what it is that people actually want. Or you'll be licking the dust off your work. This I found out fairly quickly. The unique and artistic images were my favorite types from the more exotic locations. People did *like* those types of shots and I would hear some nice remarks. At the very same time however, they would then put that print back down and then purchase the far less artistic (in my mind anyway) images from very recognizable locations. Often people, when given the opportunity, would prefer purchasing something that they are somewhat familiar with or have actually been to. The key was to try to make those images from recognizable locations as artistic as is possible. So in that sense, yes it can alter ones style as it certainly did mine. In fact we actually named my business on this clearly obvious premise. Hence "Hawaiian LandMark Images" was born. However all is not lost in this endeavor to shoot what I also like to shoot. Once we became established and had a strong foundation of saleable images, then I found it to be possible to ADD these more artistic images from less recognizable locations. Now our print line has a healthy combination of both types of fine-art prints. Though obviously far more of the former than the latter.

 

"Would this picture have commercial value as part of a series of shots of Zanzibar or tropical beaches or camels or the sociopolitical implications of tourism?" Mr B.

 

I would think that yes! there would be a place for an image like this in some type of a collage or series of images from here. Though again, I also believe a stock photo could be *created* that could make it far more effective. As we know this was live. Commercially I think it would have a better chance than as fine-art.

 

 

"Thank you Vincent, for your reply. This discussion is now echoing another that is taking place at: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00DxSA also started by Marc, who seems to be everywhere!"

 

I am done. Perhaps later on. Marc has his opinions and so do we all. He has a few "Oscars" in my book. But that's an inside joke between he and I. We like to have a little fun once in a while. Same with Carl. So where is Carl?...

General Question:

"Do we have to consider a picture is good only if it has a potential to be sold? Isn't that a kind of seeing by the narrow side view of things ?" Marielou

 

Well pics of my dogs sure aint that sellable, but in my mind they sure are good for me. So the overall answer to your question is no, a photo does not have to be sellable to be good. For fine-art or stock usage however, then the answer to your question is a fairly solid YES. If it does not sell in a gallery wall, or for stock usage library then that should tell you something about that image. But develop thick skin. many images I thought would roll out the doors simply were duds. My wife likes to remind me of those. On the other hand some sleepers occasionally turned up big. This one surprised all of us.

 

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1967620

 

I have had quite a bit of success in our print line as well as for stock. While this here was a dud...

 

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2091205

Another way to ask the question is :

When your eye is on the viewfinder, what is in your mind ?does this rectangle I see in this little box will make money ?Or do you feel an emotional thing about beauty and do not resist to immortalize it by clicking on the button ? Without any commercial idea behind ?

 

In other words : Does your purpose in photography is a business before all or a way to enthusiasticly express a kind of minor art ?

 

If your reply is the first case we definitely aren't on the same planet.

 

I took a lot at your whole portfolio. You have wonderful images from this enchanted country which is Hawaii. Maybe it misses a touch of "incongruity" here and there....Smile.......!

ninafuraha sana kusikia picha hii..

ni maridadi...

ni africa kabisa...;-)

my dear sweet marielou

it is wonderful to see this particular photo be chosen..

it is like an homage to africa..

to "the roots"

to the people who sat there..waiting to go on ships..

taking them to a distant country..

away from their loved ones...

you have in this photo..

given us a whole story..

telling us their means of transportation both at sea and on land

and what they live of..

then your technique..is brilliant..

to take photos on the equator in this sunlight is really challenging..as i do have 20 odd years of experience of the equator..;-)and miss it too..I might add...

you have great depth here as you have different viewpoints for us to rest our eyes on..superb!

the sweet blue waters of zanzibar..draws us close..

i am quite sure a few looking at this..will soon be on a plane to this magic island..

african lady..lingers on memories..

Just want to add a word to all those for whom photography is for making a living.

I have NOT ANY scorn for this activity. not at all. It's a wonderful and hard job.

Those who are paid with contrat for making reportages, or postcards, or calendars or art shows, or what else, have a good job.

Those who make photographs and a book with them to offer them to agencies, all that is ok for me.

I'm lucky enough to consider photography just as a hobby.

So, when a person judge my picture just on its possibility to be sold or not, I consider this not as a critique about the photographic quality of the picture.

A critique must be as neutral as he/she could be, imo. That's all.

Those who don't go to her photo.net gallery for a look at other genres may not appreciate how versatile and original she is. For me, it's her B&W's that have most impact; others will find other faves. Click here for MD's Portfolio.

"Another way to ask the question is :

When your eye is on the viewfinder, what is in your mind? does this rectangle I see in this little box will make money ? Or do you feel an emotional thing about beauty and do not resist to immortalize it by clicking on the button ? Without any commercial idea behind ?" Marielou D.

 

When I am out shooting anywhere, it's always about the beauty, it's always about trying to capture the essence, yes the spirit of each location. It is never about dollars. It is the most enjoyable thing I can do practically anywhere. The business part of the process is entirely independent and separate and far less enjoyable from the shooting itself.

Vincent, so glad to know you value my opinion. I'd have contributed earlier but I was, shall we say, preoccupied over in the philosophy forum.

 

Anyway, there are things I like and things I don't like about this image. Having seen the camels and the boat, I like the previsualization and patience it took to get them lined up in the same frame and in such a way where they compliment each other rather than compete. The shooting angle emphasizing the layers of sand, water, and sky are also an important part of the success of the image.

 

But I have two concerns. I take a lot of grief sometimes for wanting better light, but I wonder if side light would help us pick out details in the subjects. If they aren't out and about earlier or later, then it can't be helped, but I'd be taking a nap about now, conserving energy for my dusk, then dawn, shoots.

 

The other issue is digital artifacts. There are strange lines and bright areas around the boat and the guy on the right. There are also many areas that are oddly smooth next to other areas that are pixelated. The image is not marked as unmanipulated, and maybe that was in reference to the frame (reminds me of your comments in French on your last POW, Marielou. :-)), but they raise questions about the creation and processing of the image beyond sharpening (which I don't think accounts for what I'm seeing.)

 

On the broader subject of why we're taking pictures, I don't see pro and non-pro issues necessarily being at odds. We're trying to create pleasing and engaging images . . . something with some staying power. The planning that went into this shot goes further in this direction than the usual grab shots that you would expect from all the other snapshooters on the beach that day.

Congratulations Marielou, it is nice to see you and your photography at center stage. As you say in your biography; yes to life, yes to love and yes to harmony. Thank you for all your kind inspiration.

 

Personally I saw a hint of humor in your photograph. It almost appears as though the man on the right has been stopped in his tracks and is being held up by thieves waiting just outside of the frame. The man on the left side is unaware of what is happening and is about to be abruptly stopped at the rear of the camel.

 

I thought the photo was interesting because of the opposing movement of the people in the boat and the people on the shore and how they were going in different directions. The colors are peaceful even though there is a lot of action happening in the photograph. I thought this was a good exposure for the bright conditions. Many photographers would have waited for the sun to go down instead, resulting in a less unique photograph. I know nothing of camels so seeing them at the beach seemed normal to me. They are domesticated so I would not be surprised to see them wherever there are people.

 

I can relate to a peaceful day at the beach spent quietly observing life happening in front of you. I can feel the breeze on my arms and the sun on my face. The sound of the ocean is in my ears. Life should always be that wonderful.

 

No suggestions for changes or debate about what it is or is not. Many things are for sale but they are not always the things that are the most precious to us. Art is the only thing that lasts. Keep making and sharing it.

Nice...very nice, I feel like having a cold beer or a cocktail in a coconut and imagine myself there. This is obviuosly shot from your beach-terras...hehehe...well observed and no remarks what so ever.

Dennis, you say :

 

"I can relate to a peaceful day at the beach spent quietly observing life happening in front of you. I can feel the breeze on my arms and the sun on my face. The sound of the ocean is in my ears. Life should always be that wonderful."

 

You are the man to go with there !

 

I love your : "Life should always be that wonderful."

I wonder how few critics this week. I don't think this is a great picture. Even a good picture. There are quite appealing colors, nice high key blue and that's the only thing I like. There are many things to improve as mentioned above, but I doubt it will worth of the bother. I'm with Vincent, the biggest problem are the people that are quite badly placed in the overall composition. They are too much near the frame IMHO. The main compositional subjects in this case are that camel and the sail, which are good placed. Everything else is distraction.

In the end, I find this photo lucky holliday snapshot worth of nothing more. You have much better pics in your portfolio Marielou, pics that have their soul, encourage thinking are technically better done and are worth of looking. This one says: "Hey look, I was there." So what. Show it to your family.

No offence. It's just my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, there are people who like it. Anyway :)

Congratulations on your POW. (I was away when this happened, so am only now getting to see this) A long over due award for you. There are many in your portfolio that would be acceptable for this award.

 

Thanks for the explanation of how and where you took this photo. You travel to some of the most interesting places!

 

My feelings about the photo are:

 

I like the camel and his handlers with the sea. The boat just seems a bit too much. But I do understand why you did it. It is amusing. A ship of the ocean and a ship of the desert. :))

 

In the context of it being an amusing shot, the frame is suitable. In the context of a travel/documentary photo, I could do without the frame. But I like to knit pick! It is a well thought out presentation.

 

Cheers,

Maggie