TLR questions & Ricoh Diacord G info?

[chris____]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks to all who responded to my earlier post. Couple more

questions--how close can you generally focus with a TLR before paralax

becomes a major issue? anyone have any experience with a Ricoh Diacord

G & if so, how does its taking lens compare to others (ie, Yashika,

Yashinon etc.)? Anyone want to comment on the extent of the difference

between the 3-element Yashikor and the 4 Yashinon?

Again with thanks.

[conrad_poulin]

The Diacord is a sturdier camera. Has more blades on the

diaphram. The taking lens is good. Sharp and contrasty. I have

had many TLR Cameras including a Diacord. I would rate it

above a Yashicamat and I like and use a 124 Yashica. One

problem with the Diacord is that you have to get use to cocking

the shutter and advancing the film after each shot or you can get

unwanted double exposures, but thats not really a problem. I

have 14X14 prints in back and white that I would say compare

easily with those I have taken with a Hasselblad CM chrome 80

mm, lens but maybe not as good as those taken with an old

Mamiya RB67 and its 90 or 127 mm non c lens, I think three feet

is about as close as you can focus. As far as your last question

about the two yashica lenses I only have had the 4 ellment, and I

like it. A bit off topic but many times you hear people talking

about which lens or camera is better. To me the better one is the

one that is in good clean working order with a good clean lens.

The rest is up to the photographer to apply good application like

using a tripod, lens shade, proper exposure, good processing

and printing etc.

[h._p.]

If you add Rolleipars or their Yashica equivalents you can get down to 12 inches or so. Note that the field of view is shown correctly but there can be quite a difference in viewpoint, which can lead to some unexpected results.

[dale_dickerson2]

The 3-element Yashikor is a copy of the classic Cooke's Triple design. Rolleicord used a Carl Zeiss version call the Triotar. The lens design is a very nice portrait lens. Edge to edge sharpness is from f11-f22. In a poor example it is f16-f22. I like the design for portraits and like using f5.6 or f8. The image is sharp but creamy looking skin. It is not a lens for critical sharpness at the edges. By critical sharpness I mean you need it sharp for a use such as group photographs or buildings.

 

The 4 element Yashinon is a copy of the Carl Zeiss Tessar design. It has better correction and sharpness then the triplet design and 100 years ago earned the nick name of "eagle eye". You can get edge to edge sharpness at f8-f22 for critical sharpness at edges.

It has nice creamy skin at f5.6 in portraits. When compared to a Rolleicord with a Xenar (the Schneider copy of the Tessar design), you will find similar results at f3.5. At f4 through f5.6 Yashinon will have a sharper center, but much softer edges then the Xenar. The Xenar is not as sharp in the center f4-f5.6 but has more uniform sharpness across the image, center to edge. F8-f22 the Yashinon is very close to the Xenar with a good sharp image center and edge. In this range the differences are the lens coating and glass used in making the lens. This has an impact on the color and contrast. (This difference is matter of personal taste and some people do not care.) F32 has some loss of image quality do to refraction.

 

The Yashikor lens is able to produce some lovely images. The Yashinon is sharper and used at f11 or f16 truely lives up to the nick name of the lens design for it is an "eagle eye".

[dale_dickerson2]

My only use of a Ricoh Diacord was in the 1970s and the example had an improper adjust lens. So I am not able to comment directly on use.

 

Personally, I would get a tlr with the Yashinon lens.

[pavelp]

The parallax becomes an issue when you get closer than 3ft or 1meter (or somewhere around). Unless you use closeup filters, TLRs are generally not able to focus in heavy-parallax range (the exception would be Mamiya TLR and possibly other TLRs with belows). You can learn how to compensate for parallax (some cameras even have gizmos for this) but it's annoying nevertheless.

 

I used to have Diacord-L (which I understand is Diacord-G + selenium uncoupled meter). Very nice camera, easy to use. I like the two sided focusing, it makes fine adjustments in focus easy. Double shutter release is nice too. Also, the aperture/shutter speed is readable from the above, which is convenient. My Diacord had a lens (4 element) with lots of cleaning marks but pictures were sharp and contrasty (pretty much same quality as my Minolta Autocord LMX). The DOF calculator is handy, some people say it give softish results, I've had no problems (but I printed only 5x5).

 

I also used to own Ricoh66 which had three element lens. The lens definitely had its own magic, which I believe was a combination of chromatic imperfections and light falloff towards the corners. I actually liked it a lot, it created really smooth color transitions. I've sold this camera because it had that funky autoaperture mechanism and limited shutter speeds (1/30--1/250 I believe).

 

Some more reading about Diacord:

 

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/erker/ricohflex.html

[dale_dickerson2]

What is driving the high price for the 124G? The meter? Does some intro to MF push this model? It is a bit surprising to see how high ebay prices go for this camera. In one case it sold for more then I paid two years ago for a Rolleiflex 3.5e (Xenotar) that needed a cla!

[jim_jensen]

Chris,

 

Very often, close-ups are of still subjects using a tripod. In that

case it is very easy to eliminate parallax and get a perfect sight

line with a TLR.

 

Just frame and focus, then raise the tripod elevator by the

distance of the lens spacing. Now the taking lens sees exactly

what you saw through the viewing lens.

 

If you don't mind the minor inconveniece of moving the close-up

lens from the viewing lens to the taking lens, this requires only

one close-up lens, not a set of two. Only hitch is remembering

to do it. :-)

[pavelp]

Dale,

 

the built-in meter is what usually drives price of TLRs this high. I've seen metered Minolta Autocords going for $300+, while unmetered models can be often found at around $100. Add to it that Yashica is good camera, people wrote volumes about it on the NET, 124G is the latest model (this itself drvies the price) and it's still available in close to mint condition. I was thinking about getting one, but I really have no need for yet another TLR (definitely not at those prices).

[dale_dickerson2]

Pavel,

 

The light meter in most all tlr are useable at best. The only really modern light metering system is in the GX and FX Rolleiflex. Not cheap cameras. I can understand people use to built in meters driving some higher prices. However $250USD price on the 124G leaves me speechless.

 

I am not knocking the camera. The Yashinon is a fine lens. The camera looks nice in all black. They are far better built then the current made heavy plastic 35mm cameras.

[pavelp]

I absolutely agree. The TLR built-in meters are not worth what people pay for them but again and again I see people chasing TLRs with built-in meter and paying dearly (I made same mistake myself). I eventually ended up buying small Capital selenium meter (for $5) and I use it with my TLRs when I want to travel really light (otherwise I use my LunaPro SBC meter).

 

$250?!? Last time I checked it was $170-$200 and I considered it a lot. We may have another cult camera here.

[classcamera]

Hello All,

 

I have owned, used and repaired Diacord G (and L), Yashica-Mat, Yashica-Mat124, and 124G; Also, I have had a number a Yashica A,C,D cameras. I think the focus mechanism on the Diacord is the finest in the business, better than the Autocord, and Flexaret. The reason I feal so strongly is that the arms come out on both sides and are made of chromium plated steel, not diecast zinc alloy aluminum as with the Autocord. The only regular weakness I have found is the film transport is a little week, so be gentle. Parallax can be an issue with any TLR, good or bad, so when focusing at the minimum focus distance try to keep the subject slightly below center; you will learn to make the adjustments automatically in time.

 

Yashinon is by far the better lens, both are Cook triplet (triplet refers to the number of groups not elements, some triplets have 9 elements) designs, but at higher f numbers you will find pretty similar results. When choosing a lens you have to know what is the fastest you will be shooting--on a tripod at f:16, either will work, in a poorly lit restaurant, at f:4 I would take the lens with the most elements.

 

Oh, one last thing, when buying a Yashica-mat, the older the camera is the better the quality. The Mat 124G in its final form has a very nicely made plastic film advance ratchet that will last at least 40 rolls of film. The 124-G is such a high quality camera that I stopped working on them because I could not give a 14 day warrantee. Anyone who pays 225 dollars for a Mat 124G should have his/her head examined.