VueScan with Canon FS4000: washed out colors

[rhaytana__tim_adams_]

My results scanning color negative film with Vuescan and a Canon

FS4000 have never compared with what I get from FilmGet, the

software Canon supplies with their scanner. Vuescan scans look

desaturated, washed out.

 

I�ve experimented with different versions of Vuescan, have

calibrated and recalibrated the scanner, changed film types

specified under color setting, changed brightness and black and

white point compensation ... but nothing seems to take.

 

And yet I know others rave about Vuescan, and the user interface

certainly suggests a more robust product than FilmGet. Plus I�m a

registered FilmGet user. I�d like to give the program a fair trial

before giving it up to good.

 

These samples will do as well as any. The top scan is from FilmGet;

the bottom one, from Vuescan. Tinkering with Vuescan settings does

change color cast, but the overall problem is the same: washed out

colors without life or punch, compared to Filmget.

 

I scan through the SCSI port under Windows XP Pro. I shoot color

negative film exclusively, usually Fuji 400 or 800 Press.

[albert lui]

I use FilmGet exclusively on the FS4000, so I have no experience with Vuescan. Is it possible that Vuescan is assigning the wrong profile to the output?

 

Here's a link to Dale Cotton's tutorial on Vuescan and the FS4000: http://daystarvisions.com/Docs/Tuts/NegScan/pg1.html

[mike_smith2]

Tim

 

What does the scanned file histogram look like?

 

I find that Vuescan with my Umix scanner produces a light image and the black point needs dragging back 5 or 10% consistantly.

 

Have you configured Vuescan or are you using it in default mode, you can create a specific profile for your hardware interface, one day I will work out how to do this myself!

 

NB there is a huge library of negative film profile settings in the Vuescan set up extended menu, but virtually no slide film profiles, have you tried any of these?

[derek_simpson]

I don't know the scanner but it looks as though Vuescan is not set up to do its best. Preview a single frame - look at the preview histogram - drag the pointers around and watch what happens in the preview window - if the histogram doesn't do the trick perform real time adjusts on the colour page and watch what happens on the preview. - if you find a setting that improves things (or better still is wonderful) give it a silly name and save it for next time. OTOH if you are getting results that please you with the other system run with it. I like VueScan because it treats me like a grown up - lets me make my own mistakes - Hamrick should build in audio laughter files.

[john_shriver]

To me, the FolmGet scan looks VERY hyped, way over the true color saturation of the film. Where VueScan is a little undersaturated, and a little light.

 

You may have a color management mish-mash in your VueScan and Windows XP system. It's easy to get that muddled, and your VueScan output could be an image scanned into a large color space (say Adobe RGB), and then interpreted by software that doesn't have color management, and thus being displayed as sRGB, which would definitely deflate the colors. If you're not using color management, stick with sRGB. (But a monitor calibrator should be your first purchase after a film scanner, otherwise you're in your own little universe of color interpretation.)

[carl smith]

The FilmGet scan looks oversaturated. You've lost detail in the shadows. The colors may look richer as a result but it's not a good image. The Vuescan scan looks like its gone a bit too far the other way.

 

I'd suggest looking at the preview histogram and grabbing the blackpoint slider and moving it to the right some. Don't cut too far in to the image detail, you should see a point in the image where your blacks come to life but your shadows don't block up. With enough experience you can begin to do this without even looking at the image many times. Just watch the histogram.

[albert lui]

I've made about fifty scans on the FS4000, of negative film. In my experience, FilmGet sets a conservative shadow point (with plenty of shadow detail), that I usually darken in Photoshop.

[rhaytana__tim_adams_]

Thanks, everyone, for taking the time to respond. Albert Lui, the pointer to the daystarvisions tutorial was particularly helpful. I'm still not happy with my Vuescan results, but the program may not vanish from my hard disk quite yet.

[cliff_rames]

When scanning negatives, Vuescan uses a logarithmic tone curve to compress the dynamic range. This compression is the reason for the washed-out appearance. I don't know if there is a way to turn it off.

 

You would have to "undo" the log curve in order to make the Vuescan image look like the FilmGet results.

 

Apparently this feature was designed into Vuescan in order to make the potentially wide-range subject lightnesses encoded on negatives fit the limited dynamic range of monitors and printers. IMO it just screws up the tone reproduction.

[ricky_szabo]

I find that using the 'Generic' setting and following the 'advanced workflow' as per the user guide gives the best results with Vuescan. Using any of the built-in film profiles for me gives very low contrast and washed out colours, not to mention far too bright images. Generic is more contrasty, with the histogram spread over a wider range, and brightness is for the most part spot-on.

 

Vuescan tries to capture the whole density range of the film, and in doing so the results can be very flat. As others have suggested try raising the black point a little (keep an eye on clipping).

 

My workflow is this: Set black and white points at 0% so there is no clipping (this will give a flat looking scan but the whole density range will be captured), set Colour Balance to White Balance, set film to 'Generic', follow 'advanced workflow' to set exposure and film-base colour, then scan the whole roll with those settings. In Photoshop, an 'Auto Levels' with black/white clipping set to around 0.1% followed by applying an 'S' shaped curve makes the images look a lot better.

[rhaytana__tim_adams_]

For those who follow message threads to their happy or bitter conclusions, I thought I'd post a short update on my struggles with Vuescan.

 

I seem to get my best results with color balance set to none, as per the Dale Cotton tutorial linked above. I used the advance workflow to scan a black frame and set the film base colors, downloaded and set an .icm profile for the scanner, tweaked a few other Vuescan settings, and set up a workflow in Photoshop to massage the Vuescan scans after they're done.

 

The result: in some cases, I now get better results from Vuescan. In some cases. But the problem of washed out, desaturated colors remains. I often still like the Filmget results better.

 

A sample is linked below.

 

I shall now take this discussion over to comp.periphs.scanners, as this seems to be where the Vuescan faithful congregate.