larry n. Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 After doing a little bit of research, here is what I find lacking in the R800. Please let me know if any of this is untrue. (1) According to Epson's paper guide, R800 can't use (i) velvet fine art paper, (ii) watercolor paper, (iii) PremierArt Water Resistant canvas. (2) Ink is $14 per cartridge versus $10 for the 2200. In the long run R800 might end up costing more than 2200. (Do both types contain the same amount of ink?) (3) According to Epson's pre-sales people, the R800 is "not networkable." I think they're full of hot air, but if true this would be very bad. (4) Is the R800 smaller ink droplet size important?? (5) This is a plus: you don't have to switch between photo black and matt black. Is this a big deal (time and cost-wise)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Why would you want to put an A4 inkjet on a network? Typically one uses a variety of papers, which means that people would easily print on each others' papers, and with the very high cost of inkjet printing it is really asking for disaster. A photo inkjet can not withstand multiple users, it requires a lot of love to last in working condition for any significant amount of time. On a network, I predict an R800 would last two weeks and then need service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maury_cohen Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 I've used Velvet Fine Art Paper on my R-300. I'm not sure why you think it wouldn't work with the R-800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry n. Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 Here is Epson's Ink and Paper compatability guide: http://www.epson.com/cmc_upload/0/000/035/905/Ink_PprCompChrt_14505R5.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry n. Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 Ilkka, There are lots of reasons to put a printer on a network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Hi Norman, You can put any type of paper in the R800 (or any inkjet printer), that fits and that isn't over the speced paper weight/thickness. The problem is that the image quality and colors may not look like you think it will when the print comes out AND the ink may have issues with the surface. There is also the issue of profiles for these unsupported papers, you could have them made for you at $50 a popo but that seems silly to me. But I'm all for other people experimenting with unsupported papers and reporting back what they find. But for me it's just too much trouble for such limited results and unknown longevity IMO. Ink for the Epson R800 is the same price as for the 2200, about $11.95 a cart. from Altex.com. I used to own a both an Epson 1280S and Epson 2200. The 2200 was an excellent printer when printing on Epson's matte papers but did a poor job on Epson glossy papers so I never used the 2200 and sold it locally. I picked up an Epson R800 for my nephew a few weeks ago and this printer produces images that are as good (if not as large), as my 1280S but that should last 3-7 times longer depending on paper used. Altex is the cheapest, reliable fast shipping online ink supply I and MANY other have found. Personally I would not network any fine art quality photo printer because of the paper feed and bin control issues involved with a photo printer. This is not to say that you cannot use a hardware print server and stick your Epson printer on a network (actually you can), but you may (will), loose much of the control over the printer and you may (again, read this as will), also have issues with the Epson print drivers. I don't recomend networking a photo quality printer for photo printing. If you need a shared printer use a switch but this will limit the distance you can locate the computers from the shared printer. The cost of the switch and necessary extra cables makes buying a second R800 a better option if you need this much access to a color photo printer. The R800's 1.5pl ink drop size is the cutting edge and it does make a difference in image quality. But the difference is getting pretty small at this size droplet size. Few people will see the difference even if the prints are placed side by side for comparison. BUT the difference is there under even a 4x loupe which to me says that this is a good place to stop making the droplets smaller and to work more on improving the drivers. The R800 seems to clog more than my 1280S and 2200 did unless it gets used a lot. The ability of the 2200 to use different black insets is a good idea that costs too much to do in reality. If Epson gave me all ink for free this would be okay by me but if I have to pay for it, forget about it! HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_grant Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Actually, Altex charges 11.49 for a R800 cart but only 8.90 for a 2200 cart so the R800 carts cost about 30% more. I doubt they hold 30% more ink, I have heard that they hold less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntrbll Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Chip and Louie, I beg to differ with Chip. You CANNOT put just any paper through an Epson 2200 printer. I like to use Ilford papers through my 2200, and the only ones you can use are those so marked on the box, lately with a large orange sticker. Use any other and the ink does not dry and roller marks are left on the paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie_roberts Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 As an owner of a 2200, and one that's pretty happy with it's response on all profiled paper types, including glossy, I have to say that switching blacks from photo to matte other is pretty trivial. Yes, you use a little ink recharging the printer. But the biggest waste of ink on a 2200 is using crappy paper profiles :) Once you have good paper profiles you waste so much less ink, and paper, it's not even funny. So recharging the system becomes inconsequential. Epson's new oaper profiles are pretty good, and a huge quality increase over the originals (especially on glossy media); the ones you can get from a dedicated profiler (either your own or customized from a lab) are much, much better. I switch between Velvet Fine Art, Illford Gallerie fine art, Waterlcolor (all matte black / finishes) and Premium Lustre and Premium Glossy (glossy black, natch) all the time. It's a hassle, but it would never make me buy a different printer (but the dual-black carts on the 4000 looks like a bonus in that department!). So: time-wise? it's a 10 second switch, tops. cost-wise? not a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry n. Posted May 16, 2004 Author Share Posted May 16, 2004 Jamie: why are custom profiles better than Epson's? Don't they use the same printers, inks, papers, and software to create them? Just wondering. As far as altex.com goes, I do not see them carrying the R800 inks at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_patton1 Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 I just bought a R800 (to go with my 785EPX, 2200 and 9600's) and I think the R800 works great. I have already done my first custom profile (using the Eye1 system) and get better results than the profile provided. The supplied profile is very good but I got better results with the one I made. The gloss cart makes a big difference on the Premium glossy paper. Still not as good as a dye printer on gloss (my 785EPX with a custom profile) but better than the uncoated ultrachrome of the 2200. The ink carts seem to be the same size as the 2200s. As far as networking goes, I can run it across my network (3 WinXP computers). I'll be doing more profiles and tests in the next week and will let you know how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emre Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 <blockquote>Jamie: why are custom profiles better than Epson's? Don't they use the same printers, inks, papers, and software to create them? Just wondering.</blockquote> Yes they do, but a canned profile can not account for unit variations. Also, if the ink is pigmented, one might use different profiles for different illuminants to account for metamerism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_grant Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 "As far as altex.com goes, I do not see them carrying the R800 inks at all" Altex's R800 page http://www.atlex.com/Epson/epson-printer/epson-stylus-photo-r800-printer-paper-ink-cartridges.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry n. Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 Notice that the link you sent is for atlex and not altex. They seem to be two different companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_grant Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 You are correct. In any case www.atlex.com is where I always buy my Epson OEM inks and papers and they sell R800 carts for about 11.50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Hi Guys, Sorry for the typo, I use Atlantic Exchange or atlex.com. The prices I mentioned for ink carts for the R800 and 2200 were from old cached links, the current prices are about $11.49 and $8.90 each. I've never used Altex.com so don't know about their customer support or shipping policies. But as I said Atlex.com's customer suports is really very good and the prices seem as good as it gets. Bill K, did you read what I said? If not here is is again: "You can put any type of paper in the R800 (or any inkjet printer), that fits and that isn't over the speced paper weight/thickness. The problem is that the image quality and colors may not look like you think it will when the print comes out AND the ink may have issues with the surface. There is also the issue of profiles for these unsupported papers, you could have them made for you at $50 a pop but that seems silly to me. But I'm all for other people experimenting with unsupported papers and reporting back what they find. But for me it's just too much trouble for such limited results and unknown longevity IMO." Did you see the part where I said "the ink having issues with the surface"? Did you see the part where I said "But I'm all for other people experimenting with unsupported papers and reporting back what they find. But for me it's just too much trouble for such limited results and unknown longevity IMO." Thanks for the info but this is not news to anyone, least of all me. Ronald P., what are you using for a network print server? Are you "sharing" the printer attached to a computer? If you are using XP's shared printer feature you have not actually networked the printer per se as it lacks a dedicated IP address and will require that the host computer system (the system the printer is connected to), remain turned on to server the client PC print requests. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william_yu Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I just got my R800, and created some custom profiles for different paper stock. I never used the provided profiles. I used Monaco EasyColor to create profiles for the scanners, printer/paper combo, and monitor, and so far printing to 2200 with these profiles work great. One of the best glossy paper for 2200, for example, is Pictorico High Gloss White Film, which you can not get the profile from Epson. My research into the networking question is that you will loose the bi-directonal interface with the printer when you put it on the network. The ink level monitoring will not work. I am not sure whether the printer utility will or will not work in the network environment. I have not printed any pictures from the R800 yet. But from the profiling sheets I printed and from assigning different profiles to the same scanned image, I noticed that R800 may have a higher default contrast than 2200, and has more of a yellow cast comparing to 2200 (or in other words,2200 has a more blue cast than R800). Anybody noticed any difference between R800 and 2200 in color cast and contrast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry n. Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 William, If the printer has a yellow cast that means you did not profile it properly, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william_yu Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Norman: The yellow color cast is before I do any adjustment. I open an image from Photoshop CS, and then assign either the profile of 2200/glossy or R800/glossy. I noticed the image assigned with the R800 profile has more yellow cast than the one with the 2200 profile. I tried the OEM R800 glossy profile, same yellow cast. I can correct this in Photoshop CS, but I am commenting here is R800 and 2200 has its own color balance if you do not make any adjustment. Am I doing the profiles in a wrong way? William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emre Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Yes, you are. You are supposed to calibrate/profile your monitor with a puck. Your images should be in a device independent color space (i.e., not a profile) such as Adobe RGB or sRGB. Then you should convert to your destination color space, either using Image>Mode>Convert to profile or Print with Preview. Enabling Soft Proofing helps too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william_yu Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Emre: My monitor is calibrated with Monaco Easy Color. This is my work flow: 1. open the scanned image, with AdobeRGB (1998) working color space, 2. assign a profile to the image by going to mode>assign profile. I assign the paper/printer specific profile, like 2200glossy or R800glossy. 3. do color adjustments and/or sharpening, 4. print with preview. I have been saying that in step 2, the image color is different right after I assign the paper/printer profile, before I do any color adjustments. Please advise the correct work flow if I am doing it wrong. Thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emre Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Get rid of step 2, and select the profile in the destination space of "Print with Preview". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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