Pentax 67II vs Mamiya 7II?

[tim hyde]

I'm looking for a medium-format film system that is more portable

than my LF and has greater resolution than my digital SLR. I want a

system that is as fast as possible, high quality, and offers a fair

range of lens options. I have the Mamiya 6 system, which I like,

but it's not particularly fast and the lens options are limited. I

shoot both street and landscape, but not studio. I've narrowed the

choices down to these two. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[troyammons]

I have used both of these and they are drastically different cameras as you know. The most versitile is the P67II, but the lenses are all over the board. All are good, but a few are stellar. That said the 300mm EDIF (3G) is one of the best lenses I have ever used. Its still almost an entirely manual camera though. Auto exposure and thats about it, and it is heavy and has a huge nasty mirror slap.

 

All the M7 lenses are very sharp, but its a rangefinder. Like above almost totally manual, but it does have auto exposure. The lenses for this camera are just stupid $$.

 

I also like MF and LF, and I have decided on the MF side to go for a Fuji GA645ZI, which is totally automatic as a P+S MF camera and possibly an auto SLR like a Pentax 645nII.

 

I think Ideally you need both a RF and a SLR. You might want to keep the Mamiya 6.

[paul_sauer]

I recommend renting a Pentax 67. The weight and size were just too much for street

shooting in my opinion. Some may disagree and say people act natural when a giant

howitzter of a camera is pointed in their face.

 

You might consider looking for a Fuji Rangefinder -- they come 6x7 and 6x9. No meter.

No interchangeable lenses, but much lighter than a Pentax 6x7.

 

I also second the recommendation of a newish Pentax 645. manual focus lenses are dirt

cheap and plenty sharp.

[j.baxendell]

I would be tempted to trade in the M6 and the D2H for a D200. Use the D200 for street/travel and keep the LF system for landscape and stuff where you have the time and inclination to go for maximum quality. If you don't have a decent MF scanner and good workflow the D200 is likely to produce comparable results for reasonable sized prints.

[donald_brewster]

How much is weight important to you? The Pentax is a tank with a brute of a shutter -- it is really a tripod camera. If you like the Mamiya 6, you'll understand the feel and limitation of the Mamiya 7. I picked the 7 (after owning the 6). I've never found the lens speeds to be limiting. After the 50 and the 80, what other lenses could one need? YMMV.

[eric_brody]

Neither the Pentax nor the Mamiya 7II will be any faster to use than the Mamiya 6. The Mamiya 6 has 50-75-150 lenses available, not too different than the Mamiya 7 with the 43-65-80-150. The 43 is a terrific but highly specialized lens. The Pentax is an entirely different breed of camera, larger and heavier. Why don't you just keep and use the Mamiya 6. The money you'll save will buy a LOT of film and other supplies. If you want "fast" get a digital SLR. Good luck on your quest.

[dave_bazzel1]

I've been using the Pentax 645N for about 4 years now and think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I'm not kidding.

The lenses are great and so is the loght meter. No mirror slap problems as you ma find with the 67ii. It's a great compromise with no compromise. Take a look. www.davebazzel.com

[ilkka]

If you find the M6 limiting, it is likely that the same limits bother you with the M7. The lens range is a bit wider, 43mm and a 'landscape only' 8/210 mm but not really that significant improvement. The question is, will the P67 solve those issues? You mention the M6 is slow. Well, all manual focus medium formats are, so the P67 is not going to help much. Using polarisers and graduated NDs would be much easier and faster but that's about it. Pentax surely has much wider range of lenses, also a bit faster. But it is mainly a question of 2.8 versus 4, and I would claim that it is easier to handhold the M7 (or M6) on F4 than the P67 on 2.8 at one stop faster speed. I have the P67 and it is a great camera and the lowest cost option to get a comprehensive medium format system. I have lenses from 35 to 300. But it is a large and heavy camera that feels right at home on a good tripod.

[tim hyde]

Great information everyone. Thanks. I think I'll take my Mamiya 6 back up while I do some more research. I dismissed the 645 format because I sense my D2x's are crowding into that space. Perhaps I'll reconsider that format. Maybe, long term, there really isn't much between a high-end dslr and my large formats, but I keep thinking there is a wonderful medium-format middle ground somewhere that would give me the excitement of large chromes and the mobility of digital slr.

[gustav1]

I think it's silly that so many people are ocmplaining aboout the size of the p67. You don't hear that about rz67 or fuji68. It's large film and it requires a large camera. If you want small then buy a 35mm och a dslr. Personally I like a large camera that is sturdy and robust. The p67 is not all that much larger than a eos1hs with 70-200 but surley the imagequality is.

BUT, since many think that the weight is to much, try it out first and take a momentto figure out how many lenses you want.

I feel secure with one wideangle (55) and a normal (90)..

Take a look at the Pentax 67 forum here at photo.net. Much food in the archive...

 

regards

[philippartridge]

Tim, not quite sure what to say to you! The Mamiya 7 is a sibling to the camera you already have...didn't you do any reading at all about this question? Same (approx) weight, size, shutter, lens types, VF, electronics, etc. Just 6x7..not particularly fast - what, speed of operation or lens speed? The Mamiya rangefinders are as quick as anything you will get outside of a few 645 cameras with AF and AE. Why do you want speed for lansdcapes - they do not run away. Most regard these cameras as very good for street subjects. What is slowing you down? Fast shutter, reasonable meter, lens focus is fine for all but the 150mm. For quick, on the street, zone focus the 50mm, use high speed film (B&W?) and snick that shutter.

 

Do you never crop your square? If you do, it is close to 645. Ooh, so small, being overcome by the rise of the chipcams! Run for cover. It is risible nonsense, IMHO, to compare any digi camera to any MF camera - they take images, there the similarity stops. What is this stuff about 'crowding that space'? Use what you like for your work ,what gives the best outcome, is my advice. It works better than gear lust, I believe.

 

And for 'mobility' my 645 cameras weigh 750-800 grams and are about 75% the size of the consumer DSLRs, so much for mobility. The old folders are the same, less the electronics. Sorry to be harsh, but more reading and inspections will surely help.

[tim hyde]

Philip: "risible nonsense"? I prefer film too but I try not to be hidebound about it. Perhaps I need more practice with my Mamiya 6 (or get the 7), but I just haven't been able to get the street shots with it I want from medium-format film. I obtain better images with my digital or Leica, and maybe that's just something I have to live with--quite unlike landscape where my medium format has produced superior results.

[harvey_edelstein1]

Tim, unless you are using the Leica M7 the Mamiya 6 is just as fast as the other Leicas. Also it has a faster xsync, true the lenses are slower and minimum focus distance is too far for close-ups but for street and landscapes the lenses sharpness and film size will run rings arround the Leica due to the film format advantage of 6x6 vs. 35mm.

 

I think you should take more pictures and try to zone focus your shots of street subjects. Also, I would get a Sekonic 308 or a 358 light meter and check your readings vs. your cameras meter. The camera you have is known as a very good system camera and even good as a studio camera since it has a high xsync speed. You have a better tool than you will ever need since it is capable of perfectly sharp exposures and easily fast enough for your type of subjects.

[turgut_tarhan]

<p>I own a Mamiya 7 cw 50mm, 80mm & 210mm, and performed a side-by-side test with a Pentax 67II cw 55mm, 105mm & 200mm at optimum apertures, using a sturdy tripod with MLU activation. Frames showed that Mamiya lenses could resolve linearly %10-20 more than Pentax, depending on the lens couple, but Pentax had a nicer color reproduction.<br>

<br>

Mamiya is sharper, smaller, more silent, more handholdable, yet more difficult to operate; and Pentax is the much more versatile,

allowing straight SLR operation with an AE metering prism, yet heavy, more tripod dependent and equipped with less sharper lenses.<br>

<br>

I guess your frame exposed by Mamiya 6 + 75mm cropped to 645 size can resolve close to that of a Pentax 67 + 90mm despite of its film size advantage.<br>

<br>

It's your decision. If you are happy with Mamiya 6, than a Mamiya 7 will be very similar. But with this expense, in digital era, you may also consider a

12.8 mp Canon 5D + 24-105mm L IS bundle instead, good both for landscape,

cityscape & people photography. Personally, I'm thinking to sell all my Mamiya 7 equipment and buy the above to be my first digital camera; yet waiting for the prices to settle down. Also I'm not certain whether to wait 1-2 years more to get any

higher-mp successor, maybe called 5D II or 3D. Nikon D200 is another fine camera, but how about its future path with the DX sensor size and lenses?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.turguttarhan.com" target="_blank">Turgut Tarhan</a><br>

</p>

[fred_elliott]

If you want to shoot street, the mamiya 7 is the clear choice over the Pentax 67;I have had the p67 and finally sold it. It is heavy, bulky, slow to use, tripod dependent. If you don't shoot with a tripod, be prepared to blow all your kodak moments with soft, blurred shots. I was using the 165/2.8 lens with it for people. I am glad I got rid of it! Give me a medium format camera with a lens shutter any day over the large focal plane shutter of the p67. Now with a 645 camera, that is a little different...but then, your going down on film size...which the whole point of MF is larger negs. I gave this camera 6 years of my time, I had some fun with it, but got fed-up with it when to many kodak moments were lost...the negs looked great until you louped them.