Can Canon EF 20-70/2.8L serve in available light

[david_ting1]

I do a fair amount of indoor photography (kids, candids), and much

prefer shooting without flash. I've recently added the Canon EF 70-

300mm/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM to my kit, and love its "near L-quality" for

outdoor or bright indoor shots, but of course I've been disappointed

with its slowness when shooting in available light indoors. My

trusty 50mm/1.8 is actually quite sharp and handy for available light

work; however, I'm looking for the utility of being able to zoom

quickly through the 24-70mm range. My camera body is a Digital

Rebel, so I like to limit myself to the ISO 400-800 range indoors to

avoid signal noise. Can anyone comment on the use of the EF 20-

70/2.8L in available light indoors? In other words, is there enough

speed difference between shooting f/1.8 and f/2.8 that I'm going to

miss a lot of shots?

[david_ting1]

Dang-it. I mean the Canon EF 24-70/2.8L lens, not the non-existent 20-70/2.8L.

[andrew_carlson]

It depends -

I've tried some shots on my 20D with the 70-200/2.8L IS in VERY low light, indoors at night with 2 lamps on - I left the ISO pretty low probably 100 or 200? Don't recall...

 

Just tried some shots at ISO 800 - depending on how you use Exposure compensation you should be ok. In a dark corner I have an old 1895 map of Colorado...and its a dark corner. At ISO 800 I shot at f/2.8 1/15th and got decent images. If I used the exposure compensation down to -2 they came out looking close to white so it wasn't bad at all.

 

On the Drebel I think you can do Exposure compensation just not FEC or Flash Exposure compensation...look for a button with a lightening bold +/- symbol - or you may already know more about it than I do...

 

I one of them uneducatable amatures! hee hee hee...

 

Let me see if I can post some samples here in a bit

[andrew_carlson]

well that changes things...I'll still try to get some examples

[joshchapman]

However, simon, you had the advantage of IS: I think it would be challenging to hold a lens at 70mm (112 effective) at 1/15 without stabilization.<br>

 

It all depends on what kind of available light you have, but ballpark indoor lighting at 400 and 2.8 is between 1/8 to 1/30. Double that if you want to bump up the ISO to 800. You can go further if you don't mind using neatimage or noiseninja to compensate for the grain. That should be within the range of handholding, but not by much. It all depends on how good you are at keeping your camera steady. On the other hand, the 24 - 70 would give you a range under 50mm that wouldn't need as fast a shutter speed to prevent motion blur.

<p>

Hope this helps,<br>

Josh

[andrew_carlson]

Ok, I have 1 image- it was sooo hard to keep still w/o a tripod/monopod doing this...70-200 f/2.8 IS 1/15, 2.8, ISO 800. 3 shots were too fuzzy to even be posted, this one I adjusted white temp to 3000 and increased the exposure by +1 in canon software...

 

Hope this helps even though its the wrong lens...IS was enabled.<div></div>

[beeman458]

"In other words, is there enough speed difference between shooting f/1.8 and f/2.8 that I'm going to miss a lot of shots?"

 

Yes, as that's a stop and a half. Doing the math..... getting a new calculator as it's just too complicated..... okay, here we are....

 

If the exposure was 1/30th of a second at f/2.8, then the shutter speed af f/1.8 would be..... whir, whir, cka-chunk, 1/90th of a second, give or take a fraction for windage.

 

You'll have to posit the scenario's to tell if that's gonna make a difference. Indoors, it's all about white balance and shutter speed assuming a relatively decent ability at photographic seeing.

 

Lenses for indoors, kids and candids; Sigma's 20mm f/1.8, Canon's 50mm f/1.4 and Canon's 85mm f/1.2 or 1/8 and maybe Canon's 135mm f/2.0. Carry two bodies and go for it in PhotoShop if you're doing it for pay.

 

If not for hire and weddings, do a 24-70mm f/2.8L with hot shoe mounted flash.

[david_ting1]

These are helpful responses! I've found that for capturing kids who are always fidgeting, I need a shutter speed of 1/60 or better. Typical lighting would be several 60W lamps in a room -- so I don't necessary require near-darkness capability, as in Andrew's Colorado Map example. With my 50mm f/1.8, I can often get speeds of 1/125 in available light conditions. At ISO 800 and f/2.8 with no exposure compensation, would I be able to shoot typically at 1/60 sec or faster?

[larry_underwood]

"In other words, is there enough speed difference between shooting f/1.8 and f/2.8 that I'm going to miss a lot of shots?"

 

It probably depends on the light you have available. "Available light" is not at set amount of light. If you have a Digital Rebel and a 50mm/1.8, why not use that combo set at f/2.8 under the contidions you are interested in to get an idea what will happen with the EF- 20-70 2.8L under the same conditions?

[ren_soriano]

If you're talking about the Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L USM lens, it's very usable. I absolutely

love this lens. It's also very fast and quiet.

[danny_lee2]

well this is where a handheld meter comes in handy, just set it to the F stop you want to use and it gives you the shutter speed you would need. you want minimum handheld at 1/28 at 28mm, 1/50 at 50mm abd 1/70 at 70mm , all this 1.6X because we have digital rebels. so a 50mm on a Dreb will want 1/80 sec shutter speed or better.

[pbizarro]

David,

 

Mount your 50 1.8 in the camera, set it to Av mode, dial in f/2.8. Then see what sort of shutter speeds you get at different ISO settings, for the typical lighting situation you describe.

 

Factor in 1/ISO for handholding, and you will know your answer. A lot quicker and easier than asking here.

[tom_burke3]

Two other options:-

 

a) the 17-85. Although a slower lens per se, this has IS so hand-holding it at very slow

speeds becomes possible. Being an EF-S lens it'll fit on your D-Rebel like it's made for it! -

which in fact it is....;

 

b) the 28mm f1.8. OK, I know you lose the zooming ability but this is fast, and not too

expensive. it's also small, light and inconspicuous - it's not much bigger than your 'trusty

50mm'.

 

One problem with the 24-70 is that it is a B-I-G lens; it shouts 'Photographer over here!'

at subjects.

[yakim_peled1]

Instead of the 24-70/2.8 and for low light shooting I'd consider the 24/1.4 or 35/1.4 (according to your focal length's preferences) + 85/1.8.

 

Happy shooting,

Yakim.

[gaius1]

Mount an ST-E2 on your camera and leave a 550EX or two (or more!) where the light in the room would normally come from, i.e. by the window, by tablelamps, etc. Then you get the "feel" of available light, but with a little boost under E-TTL control to keep your shutter speed up. May require some fine-tuning of ratios to get it perfect.

[digitmstr]

I use my 24-70L indoor all the time. Within the ISO you mentioned (400-800) you will be fine.

 

The lens looks great wide open (at least mine does for sure) and it focuses fast. I am anle to "snap" my kids quite easily even when they are relatively active (barring motion blur with slow shutter speed of course).

 

Here's a few samples...<div></div>

[digitmstr]

this one is shot in a museum...<div></div>

[digitmstr]

another indoor shot...<div></div>

[digitmstr]

I had to write 20-70 on the previous one ;P. Here's ONe last one...<div></div>

[digitmstr]

All thos epix were taken at 400-800 at 2.8/3.5. AS you can see the subject is not quite still/posing but, shutter was fast enough to get a decent exposure.

 

For still subjects I have hand-held it at 24mm up to 1/2 sec (see sample) by crouching down and using my knee as a tripod.<div></div>

[david_ting1]

Giampiero, as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. This is exactly what I'm looking for. Catching kids in action indoors is always a challenge. Your pics demonstrate an ability to quickly frame and compose a shot, freeze kid action, and do it in natural light. I can't always do that with my 70-300/4.5-5.6 DO except with bright lighting. And my 50mm/1.8 causes me to have to bodily move around too much as I'm composing a shot. I assume that if you're toting your lens and kids to the museum, the weight and bulk of that 24-70L must be tolerable to you?

[digitmstr]

>>I assume that if you're toting your lens and kids to the museum, the weight and bulk of that 24-70L must be tolerable to you?<<

 

Yes - the weight it's not a big deal really. I use a hand strap and a neck strap (just so I can have both hands free when needed...with kids you need that :). The hand strap works great and I prefer to carry it that way. Occasionally you will need to strech your hand of course...

 

I have found an IGLOO bag (yes, I found it a the grocery store) which fits the 10D w/h 24-70L attached plus the 550EX (or a small bottle of water) on the top compartment. That's what I use for those type of outings.

 

Here's a snap my wife took of me as was getting my 10D w/h 24-70 mounted out of that bad.

 

As you see my left hand closing a zipper that's the upper compartment which is designed to hold a can of soda. I use it for my 550Ex, or water or colormeter and...underneath it has a mesh pocket which is great for cleaning cloth, blower, CF cards, etc...<div></div>

[steve_mitchell2]

I have to agree with Giampiero. I have the 24-70L on a 20D and it works great in ambient light, even in the evenings. I don't have any pics to share at this moment (I'm at work), but the test shots I took of our cats came out great. For those, it was around midnight and I was shooting ISO 800 and only a handful of lights were on. The weight is not that big a deal. I have added the extra battery grip to my camera and adding the 580EX on top can make the camera a bit awkward to handle, but it's still manageable. ...good luck...

[andrew_carlson]

Hey! As an amature I like having the camera announce "PHOTOGRAPHER over here!" Its kinda neat watching people get out of my way...really boosts the ego!

[ayn]

I love my 24-70/2.8L, get it get it!

 

Not sure about the 300D (I have a 300D body waiting at my door right now, so I'll know soon), but with the excellent noise control at higher ISOs of my 20D, the 24-70/2.8L is great for available light shots indoor.