r_quan Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 What do you think the history on this item for auction on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=3806064728&category=30030 (please remove the space after "?") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic_. Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 It's cobbled together from different Leica-M cameras and seems to be relisted for sale every week, until some sucker pays the high reserve. Quite often there are bodies for sale "for parts" and some enterprising scheister appears put have it together. Do you feel lucky? If so, put a high bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I agree with Vic. It�s built from an assemblage of M parts. It's definitely a black re-paint over an originally chrome finish. The sr. number has either been filled in before the repaint, or it's a new top. And since it has no self-timer, it's most likely built on an M2 chassis. Either way, it really pisses me off when I see these sellers go on like they don�t know what they have. Fodder for the gullible! “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_white2 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 The body has the pin on the left bottom end, so it certainly isn't an M4. The Chassis is most likely an M2, since there is no surround for the lens release, and someone has replaced the top with an M4 repair top plate and rewind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_r._fulton_jr. Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I'd say it's a bona fide pig-in-a-poke. I've never seen an M2 without a self-timer that didn't have a button rewiind. That's just me---I don't get out much---so that could be a non-issue. There sure isn't much "M4" there though. I like it's operation described as "sluggish". Uh huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic_. Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Nuggets: "... WELL, YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MINE. ..." <P>"... SOLD AS IS, AS SHOWN, FINAL SALE. ..." <P>No respectable seller uses such terminology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roberto_watson_garc_a Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 lensrepro=lens and repro in NY, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Well . . . The seller has only two negative feedbacks out of 388 transactions; as both a buyer and a seller; one of which was after he backed out of a purchase when he felt it was a scam. Looks like a good track record to me. He probably really doesn't know what it is. I agree, it could be an M2 with an M4 replacement top plate. I have asked him to search for the serial number under the metal plate under the shutter crate. We'll see if he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Plenty of M2-X bodies were built without selftimers. The M2-S had the S.T. and in the early 1960's sold for about $250 compared to $200 for the M2-X. I wonder if this mystery camera has the M4 loading system and base plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I agree it could be an M2X. Jim Lager has a picture of one. However, I think it could also be an MDa lower body. Notice that the rewind lever has a square tip. I don't think there were any M2's like that. However the MDa has no selftimer, and does have the square tip, as do later Leicas. I've asked the seller if it has the rapid loading system. So we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h._p. Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 It could be a legitimate upgrade job. I was talking to a chap at the London Collector's Fair last year and he had a chrome M2 which had been upgraded to M4 spec by Leitz in the late 'sixties. Whether they did black paint I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Rob: It's not an MDa because MDa cameras don't have a frame preview selector. If this is a mishmash of M parts you think they couldn't have scrounged up an M4 style RW switch? It has to be either an M2 (most likely) or an M4-2 chassis. “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Hey. The seller doesn't know what he has. Maybe he should open the camera. It could be the new digital M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry cabluck Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 just for info--I had a M2 with a button and had Leitz NY convert it to lever. Done around 1970. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry cabluck Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Al I think I paid 212.00 for my first M2X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_white2 Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Bill, It can't be an M4-2 chassis, since it has the little stud for a flash bracket on the lower left end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 According to the seller, it has the M4 loading system, and M4 framelines: 35/135, 50, and 90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Frankenstein camera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Bill, yes I do think they could have scrounged a newer RW lever. And to think it's an M2X is probably a cleaner hypothesis than MDa. A selector could be added to an MDa, though. An even better hypothesis is that it's an M4 that was made without a selftimer, and that the top plate was replaced; and it was given an M2 winding lever and frame selector lever. I say this because it has so many M4 parts, including the frame lines, rewind crank, back door, and loading system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feli Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 How was the M2-X different from the regular M2? feli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 The M2X was a late model M2 available without the selftimer. The earliest M2's had no self-timer either. They were mostly the same ones that had the button rewind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I'd guess a fairly decent percentage of 50's through 70's M bodies have had "upgrades", from adding a self timer, updating the frame lines to M4P, changing the ceramic pressure plate to metal, converting double stroke to single, to replacing the synch sockets with M4 style PC sockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Not that I�m trying to be contentious or think this is worth getting into, but how many M4 cameras do you suppose were produced without a self timer? I'll tell you number is around 12 units. So it's very unlikely an M4 chassis. The top plate (and rangefinder) is most definitely from an M4 (I think we�re all in agreement about that). If it's a miss-mash of parts (which it most definitely is), why are you assuming since it�s an M4 top plate, it must follow it belongs with the chassis? Why would you assume since it doesn�t have a hot shoe, it couldn�t be an M4-2 chassis? The only reason I don�t think it�s an M4-2 chassis is the chrome posts (most M4-2 cameras were produced in black chrome). The old back plates are readily available and will work on any M camera. You might as well assume since is has an M2/3 frame selector, it must be constructed from an M2. And it�s as likely an MDa chassis with a frame preview selector added as an M2 chassis with the rapid loading system added from an M4. It�s anybody�s guess! “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 These are points well taken. Our concensus seems to be that it could have been done in more than one way, and we've gone as far as we can with it. Still, it's fun, so I just asked Sherry to take a look. If she gets time, maybe we will find out something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan flanders Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Back before the Leitz heirs sold the farm it was possible to return a camera to Wetzlar for all manner of upgrades and repairs. It is not surprising that from time to time strange combinations spawned in that era show up on the used market so don't dismiss it as a fake or recombined fantasy just because it doesn't conform to catalog specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now