volodya_lipkin Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 http://www.fatali.com/giftstore/posters/pos_beyond.php Where is this amazing place? Any idea, directions and so on. Volodya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 He probably set fire to it. You think the black on the bottom of the image is shadow? <p> <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=001oMT">http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=001oMT</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_dunn1 Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 it is crazy, looks like mars to me, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapped Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 More speculation, but no definitive answer, here --> http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=006aSz In case you're not familiar with the inside-joke about fire, Fatali basically humiliated himself by getting caught setting a fire below a rock arch in one of the Utah parks to add a little "something" to one of his images. For the fire, he used Duraflame logs, not even natural wood -- not that natural wood would make it any better, just less comical. A search here will lead you to the press write-ups if you're curious. This horse has been beaten soundly already, but I've gotta say it's sad that Mr. Fatali chose to do such a thing. I personally like his over-saturated images a lot, and even appreciated the fact that other photographers, perhaps jealous of his success and self-promotion, hated him even before the fire incident. Oh well, can great art spring from a well-adjusted persona? Probably not. Admire his images, but aspire to Duraflame-free greatness :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_proud Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Volodya, I don't think it is Bisti. I spent several days there in October and didn't see it but I didn't cover the entire area. It might be in Devil's Garden over by Escalante near Metate Arch. I hope to find it this summer, myself. good luck, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich long Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Not a definitive answer, but perhaps some useful information here: http://forums.naturephotographers.net/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=8306088241&f=25110141&m=15710373 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volodya_lipkin Posted March 7, 2004 Author Share Posted March 7, 2004 Thanks. I am sorry, but all links above have not answer. I found once something very close to this. It was some place in Utah North-East from junction I-70 and Highway 6. But I lost location of this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike hardeman Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Wow, I can't believe I actually have the answer to this one. It's only because I happened to be there in July. This formation is in Johnson Canyon (up the Johnson Wash road), just about 8 miles east of Kanab on U.S. 89. However, I'm pretty sure it is on private property. AND, there is a sign before you get there that says that part of the highway is for local use only. Seems the locals there don't like the fact that the Clinton administration opened up the area as a national monument, so they will actually have the sheriff write you a ticket if you get out of your car along that stretch of highway. I never bothered to stick around and see if that would actually happen, and that formation is very WHITE. I'm sure that Fatali, in his never-ending quest to use no filters, had the photo lab crank up the red. I've actually spoken with those guys and they say they have to do it all the time for Mr. Genius Who Doesn't Bother Apologizing for setting fire to his subjects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les_barstow Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I'll have to take a trip to Johnson Canyon then - you're the first person to come up with the answer. Congrats. Fatali mentioned to me that it was "not commonly known" and "on the Colorado Plateau", but would not divulge the location. He kind of hinted that it might be on private property. Just to verify, does the site have a large collection of hoodoos other than this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les_barstow Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 (sorry for the self-followup)<br /> Just as a confirmation - the first 8-10 miles of the Johnsonville Wash road *are* surrounded by private property according to my trusty Utah Atlas. Just enough to prevent access to the BLM lands behind them - about 1 homestead wide. <p> How far up the road is it? You make it sound like it's right off the roadside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gloria_hopkins Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 That is a bizzare-o looking rock. Thanks for the link. I spent some time looking at his new releases. He appears to be a very prolific photographer but I wish he'd put more thought into his compositions. They do appear to be suffering somewhat. And I'm not sure what he was thinking with that image on the "new release" page..... Geez, I'm just MEAN this morning. Anyway, I love his work but have noticed a change since the fire incident. I'm sorry for being so critical! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk_keyes Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 HI, My understanding is that this is not on Johnson Canyon near Kanab. Unfortunately, I promised the person that told me I would keep the secret... But there are photos of it on the web that say where it is if you can find them. Few as nice as Fatali's though... I hate to tease every one, but I don't want to hear about someone getting shot while wandering around private property looking for the place. Michael Hardeman- other than Fatali placing a fake moon in the photo - I don't think there is any other darkroom trickery to the photo. If you've seen this in the White Rocks or Johnson Canyon areas near Kanab, could we see your photo for confirmation? All the photos I've seen of this place look more like red rock than the white rock you're talking about. Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les_barstow Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Kirk - don't tease like that... I've done all kinds of Google searches and random photo gallery browsing and I've come up empty. As to travelling Johnson Canyon - I don't plan on trespassing. It's a Utah Scenic Backway, and looks like a good option for a trip up to Cannondale and then back down the Cottonwood Wash. As to Fatali's "New Releases" page,that image was released in 2001 - he hasn't updated his website catalog much. Since those images he's only produced three more: two of the "Back of Beyond" area and one of the Racetrack. Either he's slacking, backsliding, or busy doing other things besides photography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiranjeeb Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Hi Kirk, I was wondering how you can be sure that the moon in Fatali's picture is fake. I know that we can't really trust Mr Fatali too much, but having a crescent moon on the horizon near sunset is not unusual. OTOH, his Earth Spirit Rising seems to have a fake moon. http://www.fatali.com/gallery/nr/EarthSpirit.php Is there an easy way to spot fake moons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike hardeman Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 You're right, my bad. I think I was thinking of another formation in terms of color, but I'm pretty sure about the location. The week I was there, there was a picture of the thing on the Kanab town rag for tourists, and directions how to get there. I'm pretty sure it's on the Johnson road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike hardeman Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 BTW, one easy way to spot fake moons is the fact that there is detail in the moon, craters, etc. To shoot that formation at that time of evening with an 8x10 and (probably) Velvia film would require a shot of several seconds at least, and the slowest you can get that detail on a moon shot is maybe a half a second, preferably 1/60 second. I love it when photographers identify these places as "On the Colorado Plateau" or "you can't easily get there". I must have heard that same line from 3 different shooters in 3 different galleries in the past 12 years. Having sold prints myself, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING you can convey to potential customers is a sense that they themselves could not POSSIBLY take the same picture. If you don't, then you've lowered the value of the print you're trying to sell. It's all part of that photographer-as-magician mystique that allows someone like Fatali to charge $800 for a 20x24. But, to be fair, I probably wouldn't hand out the GPS coordinates myself. The sad part is that, thanks to boards like this one, we're probably only a year or so away from just such a database, complete with pictures and descriptions of best time of day, time of year, which Navajo guide to rent. I'm glad I got to get in on this before it came to that. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostak Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo.tcl?photo_id=2016152 Fatali has such a shot, but at dawn. I plan on heading back to the southwest in October. I'll try to find the "Back of Beyonds" when I'm there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_hales Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 A couple of thoughts as regards the 'fake Moon' The Moon appears appears to have a good 30 degrees of illumination on its crescent. Is the angle of separation, Moon vs. Sun, in the picture that great? Without the lens/camera specs we'll never know. It 'looks' less to me. At the time of New Moon, can the angular separation be that great? Again I don't know, again, I suspect not. I don't own any planetarium software. Does the crescent 'point' towards the Sun? Seems a little off in my 22in monitor, perhaps I'm being too harsh. Lastly, I would have thought that the crescent would have been more washed out against the sky with the Sun still up. FWIW, judging by the patterns of the steam top center/top left, I would put the exposure at less than a second. Even on a calm day, the steam will still be moving. I love puzzles :) Keep it up guys, and I'm gonna have to buy the dang thing to satisfy my curiousity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_henderson Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 On "earth spirit rising" maybe the bright light we see at the left illuminating the steam isn't the sun at all. Could be a bright light held by someone/something obscured by glare/steam. Can't see much sign of the effects of sun elsewhere in the picture - though my monitor isn't the best. Might solve the "fake moon" debate though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk_keyes Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Chiranjeeb - I'm saying the moon is fake as that's what I was told by someone that has been there. He said that the angle view for that photo is looking north, and therefore, the moon has to be a fake (at least when taking photos at this high of north latitude!) I've been to where his "Earth Spirit Rising" photo was take, almost. It is at a place called Fly Geyser, and it is located in a little valley just off the northwest side of the Black Rock Desert in Nevada. When I was there (June 2002), the property was closed to public access (it's private property) and there were many signs that said "NO TRESPASSING" and a really big fence around it. I decided not to enter the property and looked at it from the road. Hopefully the BLM or Nature Conservancy can purchase the property and open up the access for it. I'm suspicious about the moon in the "Earth Spirit ..." photo too. Kosta - the White Rocks you mentioned can be found in the land adjacent to Hwy 89 west of Page, AZ - from between Big Water and the Paria Ranger Station. They are back away from the road and below the nearby bluffs. Pretty neat spot. David - Fatali professes to never use artifical lighting in his photos. If it is not the sun, then perhaps it is a Presto Log - sorry - cheap, but deserved, shot. Is his probation over yet? You are right that there does not seem to be much light on anything else in the photo, and the distant mountains still seem to be in shade. But that would have to be a hell of a bright Presto Log to light that photo! Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_hales Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Only after I posted, did I look at his 'Back Of Beyond'. Looking at this photo, It looks approximately shot face on, or a little to the right. Looking at the shadows cast on its surface, I would say the Sun is shining from between 7 and 8 o'clock (wrt. the camera position, straight ahead being 12 o'clock). Now, looking at the Moon, like before, it is a slim crescent, so the sun here must be shining from between 10 and 11 o'clock. Even at 9 o'clock the Moon would be a semi-circle, and the rock would be side-lit. For the Moon to be a crescent, the rock has to be back-lit. From what I can see, this has to a geometric impossibility. Perhaps he skipped out on this part of math to practice photography. Love his pictures, but he seems to place himself above the rules somewhat. Show me where I'm wrong, and I'll gladly apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezscapes Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Greetings A friend of mine sent me the link regarding this discussion of Fatali's "Back of Beyond." I just couldn't resist making a comment. First, has anyone considered that if in fact the moon was not added to the "Back of Beyond" image that it is most likely a sunrise capture? I tend to agree that moon is an aritfact in the image. The angle of light seems to be the most troubling and there is also a problem with the phase of the moon. I would have expected a thinner crescent but it's hard to tell. Second, there is no question that the "Earth Spirit Rising" image has an added moon element, or it's not the sun providing the backlight. There is NO physical alignment possible that would allow the sun and moon to occupy the sky as depicted. Back to "Back of Beyond;" I've been through Johnson Canyon and I don't recall seeing anything even remotely hinting that there is that type of sandstone erosion in the area. My understanding is the formation is a "road kill." I honestly don't think it's there. My 2 cents. Interesting thoughts... BTW if Fatali's intention of producing those two images is to get people to talk and debate, he has succeeded. --Gene M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk_keyes Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Eugene - Welcome ot the discussion! "First, has anyone considered that if in fact the moon was not added to the "Back of Beyond" image that it is most likely a sunrise capture?" I was under the impression that it was taken at sunset, but then as I said above, I have not been there yet so I can't confirm it. "My understanding is the formation is a "road kill." I honestly don't think it's there." What do you mean by "road kill"? I don't understand the use of the phase here. "BTW if Fatali's intention of producing those two images is to get people to talk and debate, he has succeeded." I suspect that's not his intention. I suspect he thinks it makes the image look cooler and therefore it will sell better. Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezscapes Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Kirk, et al Sorry about the slang. By "road kill" I an inferring that the formation is near, adjacent to a road, or is an easily accessible location. When I first started to examine this image the phase of the moon is the first thing that seemed out of place for the time of day, AM or PM, and I concluded that it was more likely an AM shot because of the amount of illumination on the lunar disk and apparent position in the sky. Regardless, something is out sorts with the moon, aside from the exposure. -- Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.naturesfinestimages.co Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Okay all of you moon experts, here's the scoop. This shot was taken looking N48E (this is without magnetic declination calculated in). It was taken at sunset in March or very early April. I'm no moon expert so please post if this moon is possible or not. Check out my website in the near future and I'll post some shots of what it really looks like at sunset. May even post a sunrise shot of it. Definetely not the red that Fatali has. naturesfinestimages.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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