Pentax 67 or Mamiya 7 II

[stephen_zippilli]

Hello all,

 

I've been a Pentax 67 shooter for number of years. I just returned

from Paris last week and after lugging the bulky 67 all over town I

began to wonder if this is still the right camera for me. I am now

considering switching over to the Mamiya 7 II. Can anyone comment

on the pro's and cons of the Pentax vs. the Mamiya 7 II? What are

the main advantages or disadvantages of the rangefinder vs. the

SLR.? All comments and thoughts would be welcomed!! Thanks.

[christopher perez]

If you like using long lenses with your Pentax, you might be disappointed by moving to Mamiya. But if you use standard to wide focal lengths, you might be very pleased by a move to Mamiya 7.

 

The illusion of looking at your subject through the lens of a SLR helps you manage composition differently than when using an RF camera. The RF viewfinder can take some getting used to, particularly for aligning verticals or horizontals.

 

If you find the Mamiya 7 lens selection to your liking, you may be very happy with how quiet the shutters are. Lens quality is quite good across the line. And the metering system isn't 1/2 bad either.

[lkv]

I use the Mamiya 7 a lot. It is great !

That said, you should try it before you change system. It is less bulky than the Pentax. But

the main difference is RF vs SLR. They are two different ways of seeing - and framing. You

have to try to see if RF is good for you. Personally, I like the fact that I see more than the

frame. Also, you cannot dream of a quiter camera !

Lenny

[stephen_zippilli]

Great input... Thanks!! The longest lens that I've ever used on the Pentax is the 165... I've not used it much out of doors for general work, it's primarily used for portraits... Would the Mamiya accomodate something in the 165mm focal lenghth range? Also, I likely will not sell off the Pentax system, I would just replace it with the Mamiya as my primary tool and keep the Pentax available for other work... Thanks again for your help.

 

PS: I am also finding the "quiet" would be an excellent advantage in the type f shooting I enjoy doing.

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

Pros of Mamiya 7ii

 

1. Size; Weight

2. Excels with wide angle lenses: 43mm, 50mm and even 65mm

3. Quiet

4. Can handhold to 1/15th of s second (often but not always) w/ wide a. lenses

5. Easy to load film; backs of different sizes not needed

6. Lenses are sharp sharp

 

Cons:

 

1. Meter is terrible...

2. Cost

[douglas_green1]

The biggest issue with the Mamiya, IMHO, is that it is not designed for closeups, or for use with teles. The longest useful tele lens is 150mm (the 210 is strictly an aerial lens, as there is no coupled RF focusing when using it). Also, even with the 150, you might find that it doesn't focus close enough for a tightly framed head shot.

 

However, for use with wideangle to short tele lenses, other than extreme closeups, it's a great camera and the lenses are spectacular. It is also a very expensive system compared to good 2nd hand Pentax 67 gear, however - so you need to figure out if you can justify the cost for a camera that is outstanding for maybe 60-80% of what you'll be shooting, but nearly useless for the remaining 20-40% of your work.

 

Personally, I love the quick, easy handling of rangefinders, and the Mamiya 7 family is certainly an excellent one, especially for landscapes and general wideangle use. But for close-up work, or telephoto work, SLRs win hands down.

[boris_krivoruk3]

Interesting. I was actually thinking about moving from M7II to Pentax 67. The issue with M7II I have is reliability and availability of the repair. Not that it's not reliable, but things happen, plus rangefinder adjustments are quite frequent in my case; I carry camera a lot in the mountains and rangefinder goes out of adjustment. Repair is not always readily available. MAC does not do a good job, they perform overhaul no matter what. In the best case scenario they will fix the camera and overcharge you for unnecessary overhaul. In the worst case overhaul does not fix a problem and MAC techs don't even test it. I've received my camera unrepaired 3 times in the row while I was waithing for it for 1.5 months. Other shops don't always know how to fix M7II. With all this said, I still use M7II and enjoy taking the photos it can take.

[l_a_k_h_i_n_d_e_r]

If you were lugging the Pentax with just one (or two) lenses, then maybe a Mamiya 7 will fill in. The rangefinder does a limited job, and does it exceedingly well. Most rangefinders suffer as they are not designed for very long lenses, typically where a SLR shines! Also, as one puts a wide-angle lens, the need to bring in a seperate view-finder is not the sweetest solution. Again, here the SLR shines! The problem is the view-finder. Go with the rangefinder whose view-finder is conducive to lenses of your choice. But definitely rent before you buy.

[bob haight]

Another con of the Mamiya is the dioptors, if you need one, they fall out easily. The meter, not being TTL and hooded, tends to underexpose scenics. Interestingly, the Bronica meter on the RF645, also a fine rangefinder choice for you, has a very accurate meter due to the multiple sensors.

[george_rhodes]

Being primarily a landscape photographer, the primary problem for me with a rangefinder is that it is more difficult to use polarizing and neutral density filters to good effect. Also, I need longer telephoto lenses than are available for the Mamiya 7.

[dougmiles]

Hi Stephen; I sympathize! I've used P6x7 since 1976, and taken it overseas a few times. I've been very pleased with the film results, though it is indeed bulky to pack around.

 

If you'd like to give rangefinders a try, I think you're wise to keep the Pentax for those times where the SLR has an advantage.

 

I've been using 645 format RFs for several years, starting with Fuji and last year settling on the Bronica RF645, which is a honey of a rig. Fast and quiet and easy to carry along on errands. Even without the current hefty rebates, Bronica & its lenses would still be much more economical than the Mamiya. Of course the film format is somewhat smaller, and there are just the 45, 65, and 100mm lenses.

[dan_linne1]

It IS possible to get exact framing, and use any filter with precision, and get very close with the M7. It's just not convenient. Use it like a view camera, before putting film in check the image with a ground glass. An RB screen held in place with a rubber band works great. You can only do one such setup per roll, but for that one great shot, it's worth it.

[thomas_diekwisch1]

I went through the whole thing already, and here is what I came up with: There is no rule to stick with one system! Thus, I use the Mamiya 7II for wide angle lenses and carry a Pentax 645nII with Macro and Telephoto. Best of both worlds. Yes, I realize, I don't have the same accessories fit on them, but then, it's the perfect match. Even better, for the wide angles, the Mamiya wins out with its superior 6x7 and its great lenses. For portrait, telephoto and macro, everything beyond 645 is a hassle (Hassel - no pun intended). Never thought I'd be as happy with any combo as much as I am with this one.

[will_smugglesworth]

Stephen - what kind of photography do you do mainly ?

 

Architectural ? People ? Landscapes ? A mix ?

 

Just trying to get an idea of what kind of tool you need. A camera is just a tool and like the others say the Mamiya 7 excels at the wider end of the scale.

 

From what I have been reading some find the 43mm a little too wide, the 50mm good, the 65mm very good and the 80mm not so useful. Some find the 150mm a little hard to use, but I suspect with time and effort and familiarity you will get used to it.

Like others say - the 210mm is a little specialist for general use.

 

But if you are looking for a quiet camera for the streets, to work unobtrusively with a relatively light camera and wide-ish lenses the M7 is sweet.

 

I bought the M7II with the 80mm + 50mm - i used a friends M7 + 80mm first for a month (nice friend - lots of cameras). The M7II is a little brighter in the viewfinder and has a slightly better meter (aparently).

 

As for lenses - if I was buying again I would buy the 50mm (still happy with this - very nice), the 65mm (not yet tried) and the 80mm (despite what others say I like this lens).

 

Recently I bought a Mamiya 6 (3 lenses that slightly overlap the M7 set up) - I would recomend this for the following reasons:

 

-- cheaper than the M7 / /M7II

 

-- more compact (good for travelling)

 

but you may not like the fact that it is 6x6 and also there are issues/problems with the wind on - potentially.

 

Anyway, with a pentax 67 and a mamiya 7 (I or II) you would be able to cover most of what you need I suspect.

 

Cheers

[fernando_mcsoto]

Stephen I really simpathaise with you . I have a Pentax 6x7 with the two zooms (50-100mm and 90-180mm) and one normal lens. Carrying the equipment for more than 1km is an incredible pain, mainly because of the bulky tripod. Because I mainly shoot on location and I mainly use wide lenses, if I had to buy a 6x7 format camera again I would go for Mamiya 7II directly. No doubt.

 

However, when I went through the same crisis as you, I decided to buy a Bronica RF645 to complement the P67, instead of trading the P67 for the Mamiya 7II. The Bronica RF645 has become my travel camera and I really love it. I think that it's a camera that is highly undervalued and you buy it new for a very low price. Second-hand the price is a steal (I bought it second-hand). I still use the P67 when I can carry it in the car or when I sometimes may shoot something in a studio.

 

Just an anecdote. A few months ago I talked to people in Jessops in New Orford St. in London (basement dept) and to the shop in Glasgow about the dilema between P67 and M7II. They told me that the demand for P67 is going down strongly while demand for Mamiya 7II is higher than ever, and this was in spite of the digital wave. They said that in the UK, where Mamiya 7II is cheaper than in the US, Mamiya 7II is the second largest seller in medium format after the Bronicas SLRs. Of course, Jessops is addressed mainly to the amateur and consumer market, not professional. By the way, it is amazing the low prices that used Pentax 67 are getting these days.

[stephen_zippilli]

Thanks to all of you for your great and thoughtful responses.... The decision is made... I'm going to hang onto my P67 system and still make the investment in the Mamiya 7 II with 80mm lens which would, I believe cover most of my situations... Thanks again for the advice!!

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

Hi Stephen,

 

Try the Mamiya 7ii 65mm lens instead of the 80mm...if you work in tight(er) spaces, the 65mm lens will give you that much more flexibility. Other than that, you may want to look at a 6x9 Fuji GSW rangefinder (w/65 mm lens; or the GW version with the 90mm lens).

 

This is one of those few "happy problems" in life...Best Luck with whatever you decide.

 

rdc

[john_photo]

Well I would reccomend the 50 and 80 as thats what I have and I find it works well.

 

I thought about the 65 initially but its kind of WIMPY wide angle to me. The 80 is just about perfect for my needs but I like normal lenses. Many people on this forum dont and thats why many opt for the 65 if given the choice of one lens.

 

If I'm cramped I can compose carefully with the 50 and get a true wide angle shot unlike the 65. One advantage of the 65 over the 80 is Depth of Field. You have very little with the 80.

 

Personally, just my opinion, I would not waste your money on the 711 because the only difference I could see was a slightly brighter viewfinder and this didnt justify the extra 400 bucks or so you would pay on the used market. I use my 7 for night photography and have no problems focusing.

[patricks]

i know i'm late to this game, but have you considered a mint Mamiya M6?