Mamiya RZ equipment - am I getting a good deal?

[terry_richter1]

I have the opportunity to purchase some Mamiya RZ equipment that is

in very good shape from a local photographer that is willing to show

me how it all works (I have never worked with MF, my experience is

limited to 35mm studio work). Since this is a huge investment for

me, I want to know if I am making the right choice. The "package"

would include (2) RZ bodies including the waist level finder, (2)AE

Prism, (1)prism magnifier, (1) power winder, (1) 120back, (3)220

backs, (1)polaroid back, (4)lens - 65mm, 110mm, 150mm and 180mm. I

can get all of the above for $5500. Any advise is welcome :)

[enrico_pocopagni1]

Hello Terry,

 

it seems to me this outfit is very complete, but the lens choice is a bit narrowed around the short tele end. 150 and 180 (W-N I hope) are stunningly sharp, but too similar in field of view and in pespective and D.O.F. I think would be better choice 150 and 250 or 180 and 350. the wideangle 65 is approx a 32 on the 35mm format, thus not very wide. Maybe this is not an issue for your kind of work.

AE prism has good precision readings, but is very heavy, and I find it useful mostly outdoors. In studio work you probably use a handheld lightmeter so a single AE prism would be enough.

Price seems quite good, but for a more comparative knowledge you could take a look on e-bay. I satisfactorily bought this way in the U.S. most of my RZ equipment.

 

Greetings from Italy.

 

Enrico Pocopagni

[jonathan_brewer1]

How do you know it is in very good shape? These are RZ or are they the RZII cameras? These cameras can be broke and can still function, the lenses can function despite the fact that the shutters may eventually may need an overhaul/have to be replaced, is the seller willing to let you take this gear to your technician to verify its condition?

 

Will the seller give you a 'no-hassle' money back guaretee if you're unhappy with the gear for any reason? If he isn't, or is selling 'as is' then WALK, because that's what you're entitled to for roughly $6000.00.

 

Take your time with this, and you've got time, there'll always be deals like this, to me this is a 'so-so' deal, buy this system and turn around the next day and sell and you won't be getting your $5500.00 back under any circumstances, you neet to know that.

 

Looking at this deal the advantage goes to the seller, between Robert White and independant but reputable sellers like Lawrence and Amlee(I've bought from all three) your $6000.00 will get you a brand new RZII, a brand new 65mm, 110mm, 180mm and a 250mm and if you insist, I'm sure for $6000.00 they'll throw in a brand new prism and winder.

 

A deal like the above is brand new, you get a warranty and no hidded headaches and even though we're talking one camera instead of the two of the original deal, you're not dealing with an experienced user/seller from a position of inexperience.

 

If you're willing to settle for the RB Pro SD then $6000.00 will get you two bodies, two motorized backs(with these you now only have to cock the shutter/the back advances the film), two prism II's, a 65mmKL, 110mmKL, 180mmKL, and a 250mmKL, this lens combo gives you wide, normal, a short tele, and a tight head shot/fairly tight on exterior shots.

 

The above deal is something you should consider, everything is BRAND NEW, has a WARRANTY, and your inexperience isn't a factor,s believe me there are folks out there that will put their arms around you and tell you they love you like a brother, lie to your face, and then stick you with a dog.

 

The bottom line is that SIX GRAND will get you more than you think, many sellers will throw in quite a bit for a chunk of change like that, they know it, they just hope you don't know it, whatever you do, don't rush, set limits/a threshold you will not cross which I suggest should be a 'no hassle money back guarentee' allowing you time to take the gear to YOUR technician, and a willingness to walk away from the deal if anything doesn't feel right.

 

A deal for this amount of money regarding MF in the current climate is only going to be cost effective if you keep this gear, and there's no reason why it won't last 20-30 years.

 

There are many experienced folks who will also add their perspective, take it all in, consider everything and then take you time, bottom line for me, get the newest gear you can afford, don't be afraid to ask, all they can say is no, but to get to somebody who will say 'yes', you'll have to keep asking, good luck.

[douglas_green1]

IF and only IF the seller will stand behind the condition of every item in the group, it's worth around $4500-5000. If it's an AS IS sale, it's worth $3500 to 4000.

 

Individually, you could certainly pick up all that stuff for under $4000 on ebay. And that assumes that this is exactly what you would choose to buy. Personally, I'd skip the power winder and the 150mm lens, and get a couple of more 120 backs or at least the 120 inserts.

[douglas_green1]

FYI, here's what this stuff should cost you 2nd hand. All assuming Excellent used condition along with a right of inspection and return if it is not up to snuff.

 

RZ bodies w/WL finder ~$350 each via ebay $400-500 from a dealer

 

AE Prism with magnifier ~$400 via ebay, $500 from a dealer

 

The backs are all ~ $150-200 on ebay, $250 or so from a dealer

 

110mm lens ~ $300 on ebay, $400-500 from a dealer

 

65mm, 150mm, and 180mm lenses each $450-550 on ebay, $600-700 dealer

 

Power winder $100-150 ebay, $200 dealer

[fxdonny]

Of course, one of the reliable "used equipment" dealer is keh.com. At least, you can use their prices as your guideline. As a plus point, KEH usually offer 60 days warranty on their used equipment.

 

BTW, do you really need 2 bodies? Unless you really start making money out of it right away, I would suggest that you start with one body and a couple or 3 lenses, and some accessories like AE prism finder, etc. And as time goes by, you will add more to your collection. If you built your collection progressively, you might even pay less, since prices will even go lower (though may be not by much anymore, since the prices of MF has been beaten up). Also, by doing so you can use the money for some flash system which you might need.

[david_holland1]

Some random thoughts:

 

The prices don't look that bad to me. You might want to look at the used and new prices at B&H Photovideo and compare. New RZ lenses are about $1500 each, so buying a 65, 110, and 180 gets you to $5,500.

 

Buying the kit you want on ebay may take a long time to piece together at the prices that some of the others are suggesting.

 

You may not get as reliable a seller (someone you don't know) as someone you do.

 

The education that comes with the kit may be worth a lot of money, and you'll get to test everything in the process. Even if you know as much as he does about studio work in general, it will still be different.

 

Although the coverage of a 6x7 lens, when compared to a 35 is roughly half, 180mm is still 180 when it comes to depth of field, hand holding shutter speed, and finder brightness. That's the price you pay for the bigger negatives. Thus, focus becomes more difficult just as it becomes more critical.

 

I don't know how old you are, but at 61 my old eyes can't focus through the RZ prism finder indoors. Medium format lenses, particularly 6x7, are slow--like 4.5--and there is light loss with the prism as well.

 

You didn't say where you intend to use the camera. It is pretty much a tripod proposition, and I rarely use mine outside of my studio or with available light. Therefore I wouldn't use a prism finder anyway--I compose better with the waist level finder, and in the studio and the rare outdoor use, I use a handheld meter for incident readings anyway. But I have a point and shoot for outdoors (a Pentax 645N) and don't need the RZ to do double duty.

 

This isn't to say that it doesn't work great outdoors, and the lens shutters permit flash synch at higher shutter speeds (which is what the Pentax won't do). If I need to balance ambient light with fill flash, I have to put the Pentax on a tripod to use a 150 or 200 at the slow shutter speed, and if I do I might as well use the RZ.

 

If you buy the kit, you could also sell off the bits you don't need and recoup some of the price. Everyone has different needs, but for me I would certainly get rid of the 150, a prism finder, and a back or two.

 

My kit, by the way, is a ProII with 50, 110, and 180, a winder, 2 120 backs, and a Polaroid back. Figure the ProII with 110 and a 120 back used from B&H at $2,000, the other lenses at $1,000 (but you probably won't find the 50), add in the winder and the other backs and you get into the $5,500 range.

 

A further by the way: I don't use the polaroid anymore--I do the proofs with a digital, but it's a bit tricky since the minimum aperture on the digital is f/11, and I usually shoot at f/22 and up with the RZ and studio lights. If you think about it, with the digital at 22mm, equivalent to 180mm on the RZ, the actual aperture is only 2mm in diameter at f/11, while the RZ at f/22 is 8mm. I suspect that the reason that the digital is limited to f/11 is that difraction is a real problem at the smaller apertures. One advantage of the longer equivalent coverage medium format lenses is that, compared to 35mm, you don't need to worry as much about the small aperture/difraction problem.

 

Please let us all know what you decide to do!

 

David Holland

[terry_richter1]

Thanks everyone for replying! I went ahead and bought the equipment for a number of reasons. I know I could have saved a little bit by piecing one together off of ebay, however, I was more interested in purchasing everything from one photographer that I know will be available if I have questions. The equipment looks like it is in great shape, I received the original boxes, manuals, etc. Best of all, he spent 10.5 hours with me in his studio on lighting, sales and marketing and how to operate the camera. During this time I was able to test out all the equipment (which I might add is a bit intimidating to someone who doesn't know a thing about medium format) and discovered that when you wind the film forward, it is a bit hesitant. He guarenteed the equipment, will be sending the one body in for repair before handing it over. For someone completely unfamiliar with medium format and fairly new to the business, this information, his time, and suggestions were priceless. I do believe I got a good deal! Thanks again!

[claus_stensgaard]

I thinks it sounds a wee bit too expensive. I just got all my equip (all in mint condition) for less than 2500 usd. It is very close to yours.

 

RZ67pro, AE prism, 2x120, 1x645, 1xpolaroid, 180 + 90 + 65/4 L-A (whoooaaa) + 1x1.4 teleconverter, waistlevelfinder, and a transportcase that houses all that.