Shooting weddings: any tips about gear?

[roger_michel]

my goodness, i did not see your question about slides!!! that is

madness. you will need many stops of exposure latitude,

especially with a leica.

 

as for flash gear. i said it above. get a 283 (or 2) a sof-ten

diffusor and a quantum battery 1 or equivalent (you must get a

separate battery pack to ensure reasonable recycle times and

enough pops -- this is NOT optional). that's as cheap as it gets.

 

you MUST practice with flash to learn how to use it, especially

with a diffusor.

 

get a bracket. do not use the flash in the hand technique. it

works once you practice (a lot), but your results can be quite

unpredictable and it is easy to have the flash blocked. DON'T try

this!! get a bracket that has at least two positions: just above the

camera and then a foot or so above. these are easy to find and

cheap.

 

BRING a long lens. bring a wide lens. bring lots of fuji color 800

and tri-X (which you can push to 1600 in a pinch).

 

finally, MAKE SURE YOU ARE CRYSTAL CLEAR ABOUT WHAT

YOU WILL DELIVER!! how many shots and in what form. the

bride and groom may expect you to produce professional quality

bound volumes. TELL THEM WHAT YOU WILL GIVE THEM and

then give them exactly that.

[i._g.]

Others already said, but I think you should not use a single piece of equipment in such a situation with which you're not already familiar, know how to handle, know what kind of result it produces and know that it works for you.

 

What I would do is considering the equipment (camera, lens, film, shooting style, flash/no flash, tripod/no tripod, manual focus/AF etc) you're already familiar with and knowing what you can and can't deliver with it, tell the couple what are the things you could and couldn't do for them.

 

Good luck anyway ;-)

[gerry_szarek]

Travis first of all I hope you are the backup, nothing against you however if you screw up your name is mud for the next 3 generations!

 

Now I would recommend you shoot digital in RAW mode with a DSLR, with a flash that can bounce, for the church service (assuming it's in a church synagogue (sp) or whatever) you will need a sofen (sp). Shoot fast ASA then post process with NeatImage or NoiseNinja, this will give you a fill in type effect works pretty good. I would bring lots of batterys (standard type) and chuck them when you are done, you also shoot at least 1000 pictures (this should give you roughly 30 or so good shots. My lens choice would be a in canon line up a 17-40, a 50, and a 70-200 with a 10D.

 

I then would shoot at the reception and maybe at the bride's house some candid's in B&W with the Leica's (available light only).

 

My 2 cents.

Gerry

[gary_brown2]

"ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." a quote from Darwin. I guess this may explain some of our/my enthusiasm ......time will surly tell

[johnmarkpainter]

Shoot Neopan 1600 from a tripod during the Ceremony. Loaded two Leicas...One Body

had a 90mm the other had a 35 or 50.

 

I also shot a Rolleiflex during the Ceremony

 

Shooting group portraits is HARD. If it is daytime, find open shade and do them

outside....I had Strobes and did OK, but it was scary.

 

At the reception, I used a cheap Sunpak Handle-mount flash set on Auto for f8 (I opened

up to f11 for long shots). I shot with a 35mm Summi for most of the reception and

guessed-range focus the whole time and it worked out quite well....mostly not ever

looking through the finder.

 

The great thing about Hand-Held Flash is that you can get extreme lighting angles and it

made the shots look really cool and unique...didn't use a diffuser.

 

I recommend shooting c-41 (color or B&W) for the reception. Those types of shots are

"double-prints". I made the mistake of shooting TriX for everything and having to print

150 shots (ouch) by hand no less...wet darkroom...

 

Or consider quitting....

jmp

[johnmarkpainter]

Oh yeah....

 

I should add....I got a friend to come with me and shoot DSLR as a backup. It looked so

CHEAP compared to the film shots.

 

I was still thankful to have that backup though!

 

jmp

[arnell_umali]

Guys,

 

Have you seen this guys portfolio/technique?

 

www.jeffascough.com

 

I've shot several weddings. Here are a few thoughts:

 

1. It would be good for both the photographer and the couple to agree on the deliverables at the beginning. Whether color/black and white, what size, no. of prints, important groupings, etc. This narrows the expectation gap.

 

2. Use the equipment you are familiar with. Else you will be fumbling with the controls during the heat of the event.

 

3. The F80 is a good body for the event (its a one time thing so no need to invest in an expensive body). May I suggest borrowing a back-up body (another F80) and bring lots of batteries. I also suggest borrowing a 28-80/2.8 zoom and a zoom-tele (if you can not approach the altar during ceremony). You may have to bring a tripod/monopod for available light photos if flash is not allowed during the ceremony.

 

4. The leica is great for those candid shots during the reception. People don't pay attention/not intimidated because of its size. Some people may even think its a cute camera.

 

5. Shoot negs instead of slides (better latitude on the former). Also suggest using chromogenics instead of silver-based film (unless you really want to spend a lot of money/time in processing). C-41 is common nowadays.

 

6. Lastly, ask yourself if you are willing to risk hearing "comments" from relatives. If you think you can't hack it, would it still be possible for the couple to hire a professional and be the back up photographer instead?

 

All the best and post some photos.

 

Arnell

[john_elder1]

I don't shoot weddings professionally because it is a pain in the ass and a high pressure situation. Nonetheless once in a while[every couple years] someone. always a very close friend, will ask me to shoot their wedding and I can't refuse. It is always very hard work

The last wedding I shot I used 2 leica bodies[M6 and M4-p}and 4 lens:28,35,50, and 90. I shoot exclusively B+W and thats part of the deal. Thats usually why the people want me in the first place:they have seen my 35mm B+W street work. This last wedding went indoors at the last minute do to cold weather. I was ready for that! I used a small sunpack handheld flash off camera and frequently dragged the shutter at 1/15and 1/8 producing good results. Background was exposed 1/2 to 1 stop less than flash exposure. I shot Hp5+ rated at 400 developed in FG7 w/ss. Most of the shots were taken with my 35 cron. Wedding ceremony was tough due to pain in the ass minister who insisted NO FLASH. My 50 lux barely handeled that part of the job. My advice is to use you the equipment with which you are most comfortable;for me, leica. I used all 4 lenses and I also used a tripod for some outside shots at twilight with flash. Its amazing to me how good the small sunpack flash performed. The night before the wedding I used my flash light meter to measure the f-stops at different distances while the flash was on automatic;it was damn consistant with results of f5.8 to f8.0 from 18 feet down to 5 feet. I shot the wedding like any candid event;street technique. It worked well!

[skeeter]

travis, i think your leicas are ok for a wedding. you obviously know how to use them.

 

i agree with roger, your spread is too close. at least you need to go with a wider wide angle. i recently shot two weddings for "fun" (i.e. not the hired photographer) with an m6ttl, 28 'cron, 50 'lux, and jay's old 75 'lux, with sf-20.

 

i recommend using kodak t400cn. it makes outstanding enlargments and you do not (i repeat, do not) want to make 4x6 copies of all the shots you will take, assuming you will be doing the darkroom work.

 

i don't have an s-fill, but based on marc williams many excellent examples and advice, if you have one i would use it.

 

have fun, i'm sure with your talent the couple will be happy with the results.

 

below are examples of the three lenses i used for the wedding.<div></div>

[skeeter]

<div></div>

[skeeter]

<div></div>

[skeeter]

one more of the 50 'lux<div></div>

[paulstenquist]

Hmmm, if a relative asked me to shoot a wedding, I'd gather up my best gear,

make sure all my batteries were fresh, and then I'd write a check to Marc

Williams and have him shoot it. I would, of course, shoot a few things my self,

and since there would be no pressure I'd probably get a few decent shots.

Marc would get the money. I would take all the credit <vbg>.

Paul

[skeeter]

paul, i agree with you completely, but flying marc half way around the world might exceed their budget...

[david_carson]

<p>Travis, I've admired your work for a quite some time. Here is my long, hard-won

advice.</p>

<p>First, I'd

buy this book: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/

0817433252/qid=1078692665/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6199901-8227154?

v=glance&s=books">The

Art of Wedding Photography</a> by Bambi

Cantrell. It will open your eyes to what subjects are important to the people <b>in</b>

the

wedding, especially the bride, that you probably didn't think about (shot

of shoes,

small of the waist, etc). At least I didn't think about it. I have a background in art

and English studies (was going to be a photojournalist), but graphic composition

and allusions to Elliot Erwitt are not <i>all</i> that brides want (darn!).</p>

<p>The book covers mainly available light documentary-style wedding photography,

and

<b>all my comments deal with this way of shooting.</b> I think it's the nicest,

most natural way of shooting a wedding. Bambi shot almost everything with a

Eos

1n and 85 f/1.2 with Tmax 3200 rated at

1600,

with some Tmax 400. A heavy rig. She's got some cheesy wide-angle stuff in

there too, but hey, maybe your cousin likes that.</p>

<p>If you can, get a (young free family member?) assistant to hoof your gear,

as you will be sweating enough in your dinner jacket.</p>

<p>If you like available light shooting (and based on your work, I think

you do), you <b>need</b> a

f/1.4 50mm or 85mm, and I'd shoot Tmax 3200 at 1600 (I also use TCN

400 or Tri-x, both at

400

outside

or with lots of window light). A 35mm f/2 will work for wider angles, but is

just often barely squeaking by at 1600 at 1/15-1/30. For color, I use Fuji

NPH (400)

and

its

800 speed

variant. I found

Tmax 3200 a better film than Ilford 3200 in low light (see <a href="http://

www.phototechmag.com/buying_b-w.htm">here</a> for

comparisons). I've never used Fuji 1600. Plan on shooting 1.5 - 2 rolls/hr.

Do not use slides as the color cast of tungsten and fluorescent light will

kill

you,

as

will

the

narrow

exposure

latitude. Plus, they don't make 1600 asa b/w slide film ;-)</p>

<p>For reference, I use a Eos 1n with a 17-35 f/2.8 for general wide angle

"scene"

photos, a Canon 430EZ flash, a 50mm f/1.8 Mark I (I gotta buy a f/1.4), an

85mm f/1.8, a M6ttl with 50 'lux, and a Hexar AF (the sucker focuses in absolute

darkness with its IR beam). I would love a Noctilux when I'm at f/1.4 at 1/15

sec with the 50 'lux, as sometimes I don't want subject (or my own) motion

blur. I like the blur in lots of situations, and that's why some clients choose

me, but many shots don't look good that way.</p>

<p>At this time, I rent my

backup gear. Make sure you have/rent a extra sync cord

if you

are

doing

off

camera

flash, and bring

extra batteries.</p>

<p>I echo the comments that you show your style of shooting to

the bride/groom beforehand, so everyone is on the same page. Make them choose

you for your style; trying to bend to their will (ie. posed flash pictures)

in a stressful situation isn't going to produce good work. That's why, based

on

your excellent

work,

I'd shoot

available

light. What you are embarking on might not seem like a big deal, maybe no one

is treating it

that

way, but

unless

you are working with very unusual family, it is a <b>very,

very, very </b>big deal. If you've never shot a wedding before, the high pressure

will surprise you.</p>

<p>You need to think about your wedding plan this way: Formals and informals.</p>

<p><b>Formals</b><br>

Get the maid of honor or some responsible person who knows most everyone to

marshal the family members around. Use the list you made with the bride and

groom (prepared weeks before) of all the people combinations and power through

this phase of the wedding in 1/2 hr. Make sure to have the bride/groom think

about

how

to deal with divorced

people, who wants to be seen with who, etc. </p>

<p>For this phase, <b>rent

or buy a 50mm for your f80, or a zoom that covers the 35-50mm range. </b>Your

85mm is too telephoto for the formals (except for just the bride/groom...it's

really good for that especially outside)...if inside, you'll either run

out of room behind you to back up or you'll

be too far away to be easily heard, plus

there are more

potential

DOF issues<b>. </b>I

am pretty fast focusing with my M6 and 50 'lux, but you want this stressful

phase of the

wedding

over

fast

and

auto focus

is a

godsend. You do <b>not</b> want to be fiddling around with focus. Everyone

is impatient. Don't let them see you get nervous...it's like seeing the

man behind the curtain and

if their confidence in you fails, you are in trouble. Yikes!</p>

<p>If the wedding is

outdoors, your little on-camera flash may be enough for fill

(test it with a big group beforehand...you must test everything at least

a week before. Don't use the wedding to test <b>anything</b>), but if it's

indoors (or raining!), you should rent a Nikon SB-whatever and a flash bracket.

Make sure the f80 will

focus

in

dim light,

or

that it will use the flash's IR sensor to focus; if, at the wedding,

in a dim church antechamber you discover the ol' f80 starts to hunt and darn,

you just can't seem to focus...well, you are dead. Outside, the TTL flash will

make

your

life much easier. In the heat of the moment dialing down the fill -2

is much easier than figuring out a manual flash unit unless you have done

it a

lot. A Sto-fen

diffuser is nice also ($25). Without a rotating bracket and the flash as a main

light (and a wall close behind), everyone will either have what looks like

extra

hair (horizontals) or a distracting side shadow (verticals) due to the flash

being too close to the lens plane. </p>

<p><b>Informals<br>

</b>Make sure you know the flow the wedding; what happens when and after what.

This way you know when it's safe to change film, go to the bathroom, etc. You

won't be caught whizzing when they are cutting the cake. Based on your past

work, I think this will be a fun time. Consider using the rear sync flash for

the dance for nice motion blur. Think of potential cool shots days before,

write them down, stick in your pocket. Reduce chance. Figure out which pocket

unexposed film goes, and which pocket exposed film goes (you got it) <i>beforehand.

</i></p>

<p><b>Printing</b><br>

I'd suggest printing a set for your portfolio, as it's much cheaper with

processing than afterwards. Who knows, if you do this again in the future, clients like

seeing the 4x6 proofs in a proof album, and obviously you do not want to reprint

these by hand. I also suggest you "offer" to

store the negs so if you lose your portfolio someday and need to reprint, you

won't

hear your cousin say, "I

don't

know

where

we

put

the negatives." Find a place that will make good 4x6 proofs of b/w 1600

film...they are out there. Don't hand the bride a contact sheet. And don't

use a lab for the first time with the wedding film...test test test beforehand.</p>

<p>Finally, see my work here: <a href="http://davidraycarson.com/photography/

index.html">http://davidraycarson.com/photography/</a>.

If I were you, before your cousin's wedding I'd try being a (possibly unpaid)

second shooter for someone to see what it's like. That's what I did. Being

the main shooter for the first wedding you've ever shot is like being down

6-3 in the 9th inning, bases loaded, and you're the clutch hitter

in the

first

baseball

game you've ever played (and never practiced for) and you've got money down

at the bookie so you can win enough to pay for your mother's liver transplant.

I wouldn't wish that on you.</p>

[cabophoto]

Take a look at Jeff Ascough´s website : http://www.jeffascough.com/. He uses M cameras with fast lenses most (all ?) of the time.

 

Regards

 

Carsten

[travis1]

WOW David, thanks for the extensive write-up..and to the rest of the contributors also. Very informative.

 

I must admit Im a little jittery because apparently my cousin hasn't got a pro photog for the shoot, in Malaysia.

 

I have not even met his wife to be! Yes, I have seen my cousin.;) He told me the dinner reception would be like 20-30 tables of guests with the traditional Chinese wedding ceremonies, usually poorly lit and cramped . I have to find out if there's a church ceremony but I doubt. ALthough no formal demands have been made to me regarding quality or media use, I guess I just don't wanna screw up. Sure I can come back with some pix, no problem, but clearly my shooting style might not be the bride's liking...

 

WHat I am not familiar with or not good at:

 

1) flash on the Ms...and the exposure settings especially on the meterless m4p.. and the 1/50th sync limitations and if f8 hyperfocus with flash is good enough..

 

2) off camera flash usage..you mean like Bruce Gilden? ;) Never tried that stunt..

 

3) manual focus tracking...I think the Ms alone will end up with a lot of misses especially wide opened. But if I can use flash on the Ms at f8, it should be better?

 

4) deciding what are the standard must -have shots in a wedding..although I know what I'd like to see ..heh.

 

As my gears are limited as described above, I'd probably need a vivitar 283 as suggested by Roger, some NPZ 800 suggested by Larry and lots of batts.

 

AS I think a 28mm would come in handy for group shots, I might need to bring my yashica fx3 with a 28mm fixed 3rd party $50 bucks f2.8 lens just in case.

 

 

I probably can do all with just the f80, vivitar283 and a 28-80 consumer zoom and be done with it but hopefully I get to shoot what I want also..;)...i.e those leica low light informal b/w with nice bokeh etc...shots.

 

gotta go practice with flash now..wedding's on the 20th Mar..

 

Any more inputs/experience would be greatly appreciated....thanks.

[melvin_h_j_tan]

Hi Travis,

 

It seems that you have more than sufficient advice from everyone so I won't give you more. Just thought I simply share my experiences.

 

Firstly, you should do what you're comfortable with. What you shoot with, flash or not, is entirely up to your desired effect.

 

I shoot weddings 2 ways. One is with an F4, 28-70mm lens, flash, color film. The other is with a couple of M6's and 4 lens: 24, 35, 50, 90. But I seldom do both at the same time. it's really difficult to try to do both so i'll suggest concentrating your efforts. I always try to get clients to get someone else to shoot the boring straight-type color shots so that i can experiment with my b/w.

 

btw, i shoot neopan 400 for 90% of my weddings. most situations indoors will at least allow 1/30th at f/2-2.8 so that's manageable. this is so even in ballrooms. which one you shooting in?

 

most of all, have fun!

 

cheers.

melvin tan

 

www.hjtan.com

 

singapore

[david_carson]

<p><i>1) flash on the Ms...and the exposure settings especially on the meterless m4p..

and the 1/50th sync limitations and if f8 hyperfocus with flash is good enough..</i></p>

<p>I haven't used a SF-20 (going to buy one someday). 1/50 sync isn't a limitation

because I wouldn't use a Leica for formals, and it's dark enough inside for

1/50 not to be a problem.</p>

<p><i> 2) off camera flash usage..you mean like Bruce Gilden? ;) Never tried that

stunt..</i></p>

<p>Since the wedding is March 20, forget it.</p>

<p><i> 3) manual focus tracking...I think the Ms alone will end up with a lot of

misses especially wide opened. But if I can use flash on the Ms at f8,

it should be

better?</i></p>

<p>Shooting wide open at weddings with a M is a bit of a high-wire act...payoffs

are huge (you are barely noticed, get relaxed expressions, bokeh is great,

the whole rig is very light, available light just looks more classic to me)

but you have to be <i><b>on.</b></i> If

you aren't confident focusing this way with available light, often at close

range,

I'd

be tempted to bail on

the M and

use the

Nikon with flash,

as

long

as the f80

can focus

in

low light

with

the

flash's IR

beam (or better yet, rent an F5 with a 80mm f/1.4 and 50mm f/1.4).

If you're using the Vivitar 283 and relying on the body's built in autofocus

light (if it has one), you could be royally screwed. Test, baby, test. Make

sure your cousin pays you for the film & processing.</p>

<p><i> 4) deciding what are the standard must -have shots in a wedding..although

I know what I'd like to see ..heh.</i></p>

<p>Buy that book I mentioned (or library?). Visit the sites others have suggested,

especially

<a href="http://www.jeffascough.com/">http://www.jeffascough.com/</a>. Bambi

(the author)

has a quote praising Jeff on his first gallery page. Jeff is very good.</p>

<p><i> As my gears are limited as described above, I'd probably need a vivitar

283 as suggested by Roger, some NPZ 800 suggested by Larry and lots of

batts....and a 28-80 consumer lens.</i></p>

<p>Potential trouble with the slow 28-80 (a 3.5-4.5?) and autofocus and IR beam

stuff. The faster the lens the better they tend to autofocus. Test (sorry!).</p>

<p><i> I think a 28mm would come in handy for group shots, I might need to

bring my yashica fx3 with a 28mm fixed 3rd party $50 bucks f2.8 lens

just in case. </i></p>

<p>Good idea. I've found that 28's can start to make people's heads deform at

the edge of the frame, although 24's are much worse. I like 35mm if possible.

FYI.</p>

<p>I'd also add that you should call the official performing the wedding to see

the rules to follow (flash or no flash being the most important).</p>

[mike dixon]

If you're shooting for fun, relax, don't worry about it, have fun.

 

If you're the "official" photographer who's expected to produce: First and foremost, gear selection is close to bottom of the list of Important Things for Successfully Shooting a Wedding (and photographic techniques are on the bottom half). If this is the stuff you're worrying about, you don't have a clue what you're in for. Wedding photography isn't brain surgery, but they have one thing in common: you only get one chance to do it right. At this point, you're not even asking the right questions.

 

[As an aside, I violate about 85% of the advice given in this thread every time I shoot a wedding.]

[kevin m.]

Travis, after reading all the additions to this thread, I still think the

most important thing you can do is establish communication

with the bride to find out what her expectations are. If she's

expecting strictly traditional, formal pictures, you might want to

excuse yourself now.

 

If you end up shooting it, I would recommend using the Leica as

a documentary camera loaded with B&W film. Have a small

flash ready to use for it, too. (A Sunpak 1600a is as small as a

pack of cigarettes and has a bounce head.) Load the Nikon with

color film, get another lens, a flash, and practice using them

between now and the event. It'll be a challenge, but wedding

photography isn't brain surgery, and I'm sure you'll get some

excellent results. (Of course you'll have to share them with us,

right?)<div></div>

[travis1]

Mike, interesting approach. Would you wanna share with us what's the top priority in a wedding shoot as far as you are concerned? Is it the kind of pix to take, the mood to be had, rather than the gear? That I can understand too, but my main concern was getting the right stuff in an event like this. But surely, Im concerned with how to organise the people, and finding the right spots and best angles when Im in the thick of the action. Hopefully the bride's family aren't demanding about the results..I know my cousin is ok.;)

 

Kevin, I'll probably pop a flash on the m6 with 35/asph, and a zoom on the nikon with a vivitar 283 or something. 2 bodies around neck hopefully and a wasit bag of films..and batts..;) That's the simplest set up I can think of now in the dinner reception. Hopefully, I can pass my uncle another cam to help me out as I follow my cousin table to table (Chinese custom).

 

And yes, I would need to communicate with the couple about what/how to shoot before I shoot.

 

thanks again.

[kevin_sarsfield]

Subject: Response to Shooting weddings: any tips about gear?

 

One "last" suggestion - regarding processing.

I'm sure that you are going to use a lab in which you have confidence. However, even they have an occasional problem.

 

I'd suggest numbering your film in sequence. Take all of the odd numbered rolls - have them processed on day 1. Take all of the even numbered rolls and have them done on the next day. That way, if there is a processing problem, you will at least have some images of the complete wedding that can be supplemented by pix that others have taken. We've all heard about the horror stories that have left us explaining that "the lab screwed up...".

 

Good luck...

[andy m.]

Re. lenses, IMHO you need nothing more than the 50mm. Keep it simple.

[jeffascough]

I guess that with this question coming up on a Leica forum, we'd be looking at a looser, documentary style of working?

 

In response to a couple of earlier posts, I use 3 Leica M6TTL's and a variety of lenses for all my work. My approach is that of a documentary photographer and my gear reflects that.

 

The best advice I can give is to keep the gear simple. I take a variety of lenses but 80% of every wedding is shot with a 50mm (Summicron or Noctilux). Admittedly,I have one body for colour and one for b/w, the third is used as a spare b/w camera so that I don't have to change film as often. BUT I could quite comfortably cover a whole wedding with one camera and one lens. The most useful lens is the 50mm Summilux, and I would own one if I didn't have the Noct.

 

Stick to one camera system, it is less confusing when you are under pressure. The more choices you have, the more you increase the chances of confusion, and ultimately the quality of your pictures will suffer.

 

Use colour negative film. Again, this makes things simple. If you use b/w film as well, use a chromogenic film. You can, however, get great b/w pics from colour neg if you can get your film scanned and can use Photoshop. I use Fuji Superia 400 or 800 depending on light conditions, but I never mix the two on a wedding. Colour neg will give you good results even if the exposure is out a little bit. All my stuff is scanned and printed by a Fuji Frontier minilab.

 

Flash is a more difficult subject. I personally hate the stuff. I love available light and I prefer to work with that light. For when I do need flash I use an SF20 or a Metz 54 MZ-3 with stofen if I'm covering mid-winter weddings in dark venues. Most of the time, the flash stays in the bag.

 

Don't even go there with digital if you are not used to it!! Digital wedding photography is a different discipline altogether. You have to have a lot of digital flying time under your belt before you even attempt to shoot a wedding with a DSLR.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Jeff<div></div>