M7 View finder flare - no not that old subject again!

[martin_shakeshaft]

Over the past few weeks I have been shooting pictures in a dark pub,

that has bare light bulbs on the walls. On a number of occasions I

have had the dreaded viewfinder flare out problem. No amount of

shifting/centring my eye cures it.

 

So I suspect I have an M7 that is pre the MP viewfinder

modification. I have one simple question, does the MP/M7 completely

sort this problem out or does it still suffer from flare?

 

I have talked to Leica UK who say that I could have a condenser lens

fitted to my exciting camera but that a full replacement of the

viewfinder is uneconomical. It would be cheaper to buy a new one. I

should stress that I am not a fondler, I use the camera on a daily

basis but feel I am loosing some shots because of this problem.

 

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[m_.]

zone focus in case of VF flare. you do that with your Ms anyway, do you? I am now curious to find how many of us use zone focus and how many actually focus for each shot. I use zone focus about 20% of the time, given I use 35mm or wider lens 90% of the time.

[patricks]

yes, I've tried an 'old' M7 which had the problem and the most severe case.

 

yes, i've tried a 'new' M7 with the new MP style VF and in most cases it is not a problem. Once when I did held it vertical I experienced the problem, but then again, getting close to VF was an issue.

 

We can fret over this as much as we want, but I'm happy that they did upgrade the M7 at all. Just my like car, a first year model Acura MDX, the later model years were upgraded with a thicker windshield and more insulation in the doors, which drastically reduced the windnoise to prevelant on my '01 model.

 

Bottomline, watch out when buying the 1st generation of any new product.

[james mitchell dc]

I have an M7 with the old VF and am only slightly annoyed by it. I have tried out M7s and MPs with the new VF and like it very much, but it is not a perfect cure. I found it to be brighter in strong light as well as dim--much like the VF on my M2. But I'm not interested in paying the $275 and waiting for an upgrade. I'll use the M2 if the lighting calls for it.

[stephen_w.]

I have a first batch (<1000) 1984 M-6 and was never bothered by flare in any shooting session that I can remember. Light that would have caused the VF to flare would have probably caused the lens to flare, anyway.

 

I recently got an M-7 (2886XXX) that does not flare.

[mike dixon]

Without knowing how bright the lights in the pub are or their

number and placement, it's tough to say whether you have a

viewfinder problem. Even with an M3 (which is very flare

resistant), if the light source is big enough or bright enough,

there's going to be some flare.

[jay_.]

My 2 "upgraded" M7's can be made to flare about 1/3 of the way across the rangefinder patch at most, and only when I've shifted the camera or my eye so far off the center axis of my eye that half the finder is obscured. With the M6 and M7 prior to the upgrade I could make the patch white out all the way across by shifting the camera or my eye so only about 1/3 of the full finder was obscured.

[gerald_widen]

Anybody ever asked Leica how they can't make a viewfinder/rangefinder without flair today when they could easily do it 50 years ago without any problem? I looked thru the<b><i> new MP</b></i> at the EXPO a month ago and the viewfinder flared pretty badly.

[terry_rory]

The M7 is not really a 'first generation' product. Leica pride themselves on the evolution of the M series.

 

M3, M2, M5, M4, M4-P, M6, M6TTL and M7 is a long lineage over 50 years and I would expect them to have sorted out VF flare in both the MP AND the M7 at the same time, given that they came out within much less than a year of each other. If they are now fitting revised flare free viewfinders to the latest M7's then I think they have an obligation to offer this modification at cost only (or free if still under warranty) to early M7 owners.

 

The lack of the flare free VF on the first M7s looks more like an oversight (being kind) or a minor cost saving they thought they could get away with. (Silly given that M7 and MP owners talk to each other (!) and are often one and same person owning both machines. They were bound to get caught out.)

[m_.]

>>Anybody ever asked Leica how they can't make a viewfinder/rangefinder without flair today when they could easily do it 50 years ago without any problem? I looked thru the new MP at the EXPO a month ago and the viewfinder flared pretty badly.>>>

 

there has been some scientic explanation to your question. by reading the text is making my head ache. but it may not for you.

 

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/leica/technics/RFbasics/rfissues.html

[jay_.]

The "scientific" explanations on that site give me a pain too, but it's not in my head.

[andy_piper2]

Martin: Having just last week examined an MP in a 'flare-prone' situation (dark store with large bright window in the front) I can more or less confirm Jay's results. The MP flared more than my M4-2 (which is practically immune), but never fully whited-out the RF patch completely - white-out area was limited to 1/3rd of the patch width one side or the other.

 

If you get stuck in a flare situation - a finger over the serrated frame-illumination window on whichever side the light is coming from (usually worst when it's from the left) can knock out enough of the flare to save the picture. Lutz Konermann's "shade' is a more permanent way of doing the same thing.

[gerald_widen]

For well over two grand you have to either put up with the flare,stick your finger over a window (all while you have one finger on the shutter and the other hand focusing) or put some kind of shade on the camera.<i> Nice</i> What did that shill Putts say the problem was????

[andrew n.bra hrefhttp]

... or just rotate the camera an eigth of a turn (ie mid-way between horizontal and

vertical), focus, then rotate back. Free, easy, and fast enough to do.

[kevin m.]

What Mike Dixon's referring too isn't the typical M6-ish flare, rather it's <i>blindness</i>! :-) I could never make my M2 flare, no matter how hard I tried, unless there was so much light in the frame that my naked eye was blinded, too. It's not as if we're asking Leica to take apart a <i>Konica</i> to find out how they do it; all they have to do is open up one of their own f-ing cameras!

[gary_lagnese]

I assume the reply from wenton lin was not serious. I purchased the M6ttl .85 just so I could use the Noctilux in dimly lit pubs, ec. Zone focusng at F1 and 10 feet distance is NOT an option. I find that a red illuinated exit sign wil cause it to flare out. On the other hand, the Noctilux is almost immune to flare, so the bare light bulbs will not ruin the shot. I have experimented a little, and found that with extreme conditions you can completly tape over the serrated ilumination window and still flare out the rangefinder patch. Apparently light from the rangefinder windows themselves contribute to the problem. My thought was that with the 50, combined with .85 mag and the 1.25 accessory mgnifier, the viewfinder barely coveren the 50mm field of view. I think the only solution for me is to find an M3.

[christopher.]

In my experience I think even the same model of finder can vary in its flare tolerance. I had an M6ttl that I sold last year that was pretty flare resistant, at least compared to the m6ttl I have now. The first one I could deal with fine, and even thought the people here that spoke about it were just being pickey, but the one I have now, same camera, same finder, close in serial# has more flare than a gay pride march.

 

Any one else have two M6ttl and notice a difference between them?

[billsr]

Before anyone invests hundreds of dollars to "upgrade" their viewfinder to MP specs, I must say that my new MP has signifigant flare in certain lighting conditions. It's not exactly disabling, but it's very annoying. Best regards, Bill

[tom_bryant]

FWIW, I have an 0.85 M7 and a couple of M3s. The M3 viewfinder is far superior to the M7, I've never seen flare that bothered me from it, and the M7's worst feature is it's flare. It's quieter than the M3, and the auto exposure is both fast and accurate.

 

Overall, if you don't mind using a hand held meter, the M3 is the better camera. It's smaller, and I actually use the self timer from time to time. The viewfinder is the best of any rangefinder, IMHO.

[boris_chan1]

Seeing flare in your viewfinder is a symptom of Leicapsychosis -

there's a simple cure spend less time listening to people on

lists like this. It really is a non-issue, as someone else said just

move the camera slightly - it'll disappear.

 

Another option is to use an EOS and fast wide - you can get a 28

f1.8 (sharp wide open and with really accurate focus) and body

for way less than somebody will pay for your M7.........

[steve_barnett2]

As a user of an 'old' M7, with all that awful flare, I find that if I ever notice a difference in flare between it and my MP, I can never be bothered to remember to do anything about it. Maybe it comes from using terrible flare prone M6's, or M4-P's for so long, but the MP doesn't flare (much), and neither does my old M7 if I move my eye in the viewfinder to compensate. Maybe moving your eye will become an old skill, but from all the recent talk about flare and how awful it is, I wonder about all those junk M6 cameras Leica manufactured, and the terrible pictures they made in difficult conditions. Are they really so bad?

[stephen_w.]

Rotate the camera!!! Great idea Andrew.