james_kennedy2 Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I have seen the error of my ways<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_kennedy2 Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Battle hardened irregulars<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Nice family you got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_wills Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Nice photos James. Can you tell us a little about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_kennedy2 Posted February 9, 2004 Author Share Posted February 9, 2004 The photos were taken in 1966-67 in Saigon, RVN, where I was stationed as a US Air Force officer. Weather satellites and interpretation of weather satellite photos were my specialties. I found the population of Viet Nam to be most attractive, and when one produced a camera, people would flock to get their picture taken. Life is a series of adventures. My experiences in Viet Nam are priceless to me. I can only hope that the subjects of my photos experienced a good life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugon Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 nice pix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octavio bustard Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 James- Please take what I'm about to say not as a slam but as a legitimate attempt at rational discussion without personal attack. Werent you the one complaining about the "crappy Pictures" on this board a few days ago? You specifically pointed out my recent work posted here as an example of the type of photography you object to. You also offered as your critique the opinion that my work was "worthless shit" without qualifying why. I have no problem with your critique; you don't like what you dont like, and as for my take on art, I think its probably not effective if it doesnt evoke strong emotions. But my question for you is this: what is it about the two pictures you've posted above that you think merits interest? What were/are you trying to say with them over and above them being casual snapshots of scenes from your life without, in my opinion, any real aesthetic or artistic merit, or any real interest to someone not otherwise interested in your life? To me they appear as nothing more than bland, uninteresting tourist photographs you'd find tucked away in a box in someone's attic. What do you claim makes them special or worthy of our interest? I'm trusting you'll respond without personal attack but in a meaningful way, as this post to you was also meant. Regards, Tim v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_kennedy2 Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Tim, First of all, I did not use the expression "worthless shit". Admittedly, I was venting my frustration and your photos were the ones most recently in my memory. My comments were not meant as a personal vendetta against you. As I subsequently noted, I went back and more carefully inspected your Paris photos, and commented that two or three of them, not more, were worthy of merit. I am not a prude and I know that some unpleasant subjects, war, grief, trajedies, etc, can result in powerful photographic images. In the same thread, someone asked what I thought of the famous Capa photo of the Spanish soldier who had just been shot, in view of the fact that the image might have been taken with less than optimum settings. I think it is a powerful and dramatic image. (As an aside, I gather that there exists some controversy as to whether it was merely staged -- I certainly don't know) I don't consider the photos that I posted as great art. One shows a little toddler taking unsure steps aided by another girl, just a little bit older. I liked the expressions on their faces, one a little bit apprehensive, the other showing affection and joy. The image gives me a little lift when I look at it. The other photo is just a bunch of young kids showing off and poking fun at the photographer -- to me just the joy and innocence of youth. Your subject matter was tawdry, with the implication of degradation, sadness and desperation. Probably you were right in not attempting to photograph the subjects with the greatest possible technical and graphical sharpness. I don't know what you were trying to convey, but it gave me an unpleasant sensation. The concept of people so desperate that they must sell themself, and others so desperate that they must buy the product is depressing to me. The manner in which you captured the images did not enhance or explain the situation. I guess I can only say that in my opinion it was a poor choice of subjects poorly photographed. I haven't looked for other examples of your work and my remarks are only addressed to this particular set of photographs. You were a convenient whipping boy and I regret singling you out. The photos I posted were originally intended to convey to friends and family back in the States what things were like 10,000 miles away in a surreal situation. I remember sitting in the open air officer's club on the sixth floor of the Brink Hotel in Saigon, sipping gin and tonics, 10 cents a glass, playing bridge, and glancing up at the TV where Vinc Morrow was starring in the series "Combat", or glancing out at the darkened surrounding countryside where you could hear the crump of the artillery and see the muzzle flashes and the flares. I guess I'll keep on snapping photos and hope to luck out someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I think Tim raises a valid point here, one that goes to the heart of the problem with James' earlier post about the quality of images being posted. As someone who has lived in Asia (though under friendlier circumstances than being a soldier in a war zone), I find Asian kids mugging for the camera to be rather standard fare. On the other hand, the Parisian prostitute series, while imperfect, was more interesting and memorable to me. One person's caviar is another person's cheeseburger . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octavio bustard Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 <james kennedy , feb 08, 2004; 06:49 a.m. These pictures are worthless shit!> James, the above is cut and pasted directly from the Paris Hookers thread. That was your comment in its entirety. Apparently you dont remember it, so go have a look for yourself. It's still on the server. Frankly I dont care about your opinion of my work. You are not the first person to have told me they don't like my stuff, and you certainly wont be the last. What I'm trying to determine is what you consider to the worthy (as opposed to "worthless shit") photographically. I'm attempting a little Socratic dialogue to uncover your mindset. I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to understand the aesthetic of a person who would critique a series of photographs with the sole statement "worthless shit" and then follow it up with your own thread using my work as examples of "crappy photos." All I can go by are the images you post, which, to my eye, could be taken by anyone with a camera and a roll of film. As I read your response, I understand you to say that they mean something to YOU and are therefore worthwhile. My pictures mean something to me too. Is this then the sole criterion for worthiness? I certainly hope not as our galleries would be full of peoples snapshots. I would think the criteria would be aesthetic in nature. So I ask you again: what is it about your photos that make them worthy aesthetically? Lack of blur? Composition? Light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim bob Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Tim, You are correct. I did say that in your thread, and I regret it. I couldn't remember saying it, and the thread I tried to find it in was my "crappy photos". When I couldn't find it there, I assumed I hadn't said it. When I posted the expression in your thread, I had been up all night aided and abetted by liquid refreshment. Upon sober (in every sense of the word) reflection, I am still not wild about your photos except for two or three, which are OK. I see no point in continuing this dialogue, since it is very difficult for me to describe esthetic values verbally. I will endeavor to keep my opinions to myself, except for praise. If I could delete my outburst, I would but I can't. So be it. Good luck in your future projects (and try to hold the camera steady). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octavio bustard Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 >I will endeavor to keep my opinions to myself, except for praise< But you've missed the point yet again, james. People arent looking for "praise" when they ask for critiques, just CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, either good or bad. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_kennedy2 Posted February 11, 2004 Author Share Posted February 11, 2004 OK, already. Constructive criticism. 1. Select an appealing, appropriate, or interesting subject. 2. Focus and frame for the effect you want. 3. Use applicable exposure settings. 4. If you select a slow shutter speed, use a tripod to avoid camera shake. 5. Be aware of how you are tilting the camera. I think you tended to violate all of the above. Even if you had applied 2 through 5, the violation of (1) would have negated the appeal of the images. I don't know what else to say. I don't know if your intention was to inform, to shock, to tittilate, or what. I have seen street prostitutes in Saigon, Vienna, Madrid, Washington DC, and Munich, and a few other cities. I think of them as pathetic victims, not as an exploitable or suitable subject. My judgement is not based on religious grounds; the prostitutes are evidence of human degradation and the failings of society, and I, frankly, prefer more uplifting subjects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octavio bustard Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 The enemy of photography is the convention, the fixed rules of 'how to do'. The salvation of photography comes from the experiment. - Diane Arbus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_kennedy2 Posted February 11, 2004 Author Share Posted February 11, 2004 I am not against experimentation, but the failure rate is very high. You have to be able to stand rejection. Every experiment does not result in "art". And I think that one has to understand and be able to apply the conventional rules before moving to the avante garde. I think Picasso was an absolute genius and his abstract art is wonderful. It aids in my appreciation of him, that by looking at his more representational paintings, he had the ability to paint a cow that would be so realistic that you would swear that you could milk it. Not so with with other so called artists would throw buckets of paint at canvasses or who randomly "throw" photons at film, but when pressed, cannot paint a cow as well as a three year old. This does not mean that I think you are not personally capable of taking photos that I would appreciate -- I am speaking in generalities. If you obtain satisfaction from your efforts, then that is reward enough and I once again apologize for my outburst. But please respect my right to dislike it. At this point, I prefer pleasant, uplifting subjects such as puppies, children, sunsets, waterfalls, even if they are banal to some -- if I want depression, I only have to read a newspaper or my own medical reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octavio bustard Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 James- I understand your perspective and respect it. And you can stop apologizing. You strike me as an articulate person with specific, well-thought opinions. It was this that i wanted to ellicit in you and I'm grateful that you responded. I think I understand your position. I'm 45 y/o and have been photographing seriously since I was 12. I've formally studied photography both in its technical and artistic aspects both in the States and in Europe. I've exhibited on 2 continents. I've been published both in the States and here in Europe. I've worked inside and outside, studio and street. I can assure you that if you want clear, well-composed, technically excellent photographs I can easily produce them for you. But at some point, if you want your photographs (your "art" as it were) to say something about YOU, you need to think in new and creative ways. Artistic rules are the BASE upon which artists learn and build. Its required that artists learn the technical skills of their profession, because its the fundamentals that form the point of departure for any coherent work; but slavish obedience to formal rules leads to death of creativity. Frankly, I'm bored silly with "nice" formally competent pictures. Anybody can do them. What interests me is people who have found a unique vision within the confines imposed by the photographic process. You're right - anybody can throw a can of paint at a canvass or paint a rudimetary picture of a woman with eyes on the side of her head and call it "art;" what makes it art, as opposed to just a mess, is the intention of the artist and his ability to effectively transmit that intention to his audience. What makes Picasso's work interesting is that he wasn't just drawing a woman with funny eyes but rather was using a deviation from pure representional art to say something about himself and his feelings about modernity, post-modernity and the role of artistic representation in such a world. I think theres room for that in photography too. I've tried not to insult you in this little debate we've been having and i hope i havent. From what you've said I take it you've honorably served our country in wartime, which is something I've never done and for which I have profound respect. I wish you all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_kennedy2 Posted February 12, 2004 Author Share Posted February 12, 2004 Thank you, Tim I am very pleased that we are coming to a friendly meeting of the minds. I respect your credentials and will look forward to your future work, especially from Sevilla, which I visited in 2002. I climbed to the top of the Giralda on crutches, and one of the great moments of my life was afterwards enjoying several pitchers of Sangria with my wife and daughter at a streetside cafe. I was too harsh in my earlier criticism and I encourage you to continue to experiment. I am a competent engineer and draftsman, but I realize I am seriously lacking in "artistic eye". My wife wouldn't know a f-stop from a doorstop, but she consistently tops me in producing clever and interesting photographic viewpoints. My only strategy is to take a zillion photos and hope that at least a few turn out OK. Sevilla turned out to be a place where it was difficult for even me to take a really bad photo, because of the city's inate beauty. I wish you the best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_kennedy2 Posted February 12, 2004 Author Share Posted February 12, 2004 To illustrate my last remarks. Sangria never tasted better. Of course this was in early May and the scent of orange blossums was in the air. February is probably too chilly for outdoor Sangria.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octavio bustard Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Nice picture James. Who said you didnt have an eye? BTW, is your daughter available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_kennedy2 Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Thanks, Tim I think you are being overly kind. My daughter, the one on the left, is a retired Air Force Lt Col, who is your age and is happily married to an Air Force Colonel currently on active duty, and a former B-1B pilot, a program that I worked on for 12 years at Boeing. My son-in-law was Air Attache to Spain until last summer. My daughter and her husband are both fluent in Spanish. My wife, pictured daughter, and youngest daughter, not pictured, will be returning to Spain this Autumn to participate in the pilgrimage to Campostela Santiago ending in Spain. While in Europe, they will meet up with my youngest son, an Army 2/Lt, who will transfer to Kaiserslautern Germany this Spring. And while they are in Europe may visit my niece, living in Germany, whose husband, a West Pointer, recently returned from nearly a year in Iraq where his was an Apache heliocopter pilot. Whew! I never realized that I was going to be so integrated into the military-industrial complex. I worry about them all. I look forward to your photos from Sevilla. I don't know if you have been there before, but it is a beautiful, colorful city. The train, the high speed AVE, from Madrid to Sevilla was a wonderful experience. The Cathedral in Sevilla, 3rd largest in the world, supposedly contains the remains of Columbus in a crypt shown being carried by statues of four kings of Spain. Be sure to go up in the Giralda a good vantage point to view the city. Best of Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octavio bustard Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Thanks James. It was a pleasure getting to know you. Stay out of the line of fire. If you ever venture to Paris, drop me a line....I'll be happy to take you to the Bois du Boulogne, where you can get some killer pics of transvestites! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now