Busing a (used) 6x6 camera

[willie_jan_bons]

I am looking for buying a 6x6 camera (no 6x45) besides my Pentax Z1-P.

 

I am searching for the best one for me. First i thought a used

Hasselblatt but i heard from guys that you will have lot's of

technical problems with this one. Second the prices of lenses are

very high. Secondly i thought a Bronica. Lot's of different lenses

available and no such problems like hassel. There is a SQ-B and a SQ-

AI variant. Which to buy? I use a light meter (gosson) and i want to

use the prism (that's one of the things i like about it). So why

buying the AI with internal lightmeter when i do not use it?

 

But is the quality of the bronica good enough?

 

So i have different questions about this topic. Who can help me to

solve them out.

 

Thanks, Willie Jan Bons

[david_henderson]

As a Bronica user for some years I don't think you should be buying a Bronica because it will be more reliable than a Hasselblad. Reliability is a property of individual cameras not entire brands, and there will be good Bronicas and bad, and good Hasselblads and bad. On

average I wouldn't think there is a lot to choose between them, but as I say you don't buy "the average" you buy a specific camera.

 

I guess I can understand a view that a Bronica is preferable because you get materially the same image quality at a lower cost, and unless you need extension tubes (Bronica's are expensive) then this is true. I could understand a view that you prefer the handling of the Bronica, and that it's less quirky to use, but that's a judgment you'd need to make after handling both cameras. Try the Bronica with a speedgrip, by the way, it makes things a lot easier. I could understand a point of view that you should buy a Bronica -or a Hasselblad - because repair/service is more accessible. One of the reasons why I use Bronica is that the UK service operation is ten minutes drive from my house. I could understand a view that says that in most markets it's easier to rent Hasselblad than Bronica (but then in my experience it's always a pain to rent anything!)

 

If you decide on Bronica, what type? well personally I have the SQAi with a metered prism, though it's the "old" type that gives an average reading with no spot. However I use a handheld spotmeter to make my exposure decisions, and rarely use the cameras meter except as a general "sense check" on my calculations, and I value the metering capability in that role alone- eg. to ensure I have the film speed set correctly on the spotmeter, and that my mental gymnastics aren't leading me to a ridiculous conclusion. I also like the laterally correct viewfinder image that you don't get with the waist level finder.

 

You can use a prism finder with the SQaB- you just can't meter whether the prism you select has a metering capability or not, so you can have the advantage of the prism finders without paying for metering capability in the camera or indeed in the prism. For me, I'll pay the extra (not that much in the UK) and have the metering capability if I need it, but I"ll stick with the average meter not the spot version since I typically take several readings, and an in-camera spotmeter is a pain to manage.

[dzeanah]

 

My experience with Bronica was with an old ETR. The optics were fine, except for some light fall-off at the edges of the frame (not a big deal when you're printing your own enlargements). My experience was that while the bodies themselves were reliable enough, the backs failed at an incredibly high rate -- I once had 4 inserts (3 120, 1 220) fail on the same shoot! Granted, it was a cold morning, but that can really ruin your day. I was always having them repaired.

<p> I went to the rental shop and looked at every 6x6 they had in stock. I was

comparing the M6, 6008i, and 500CM. I preferred the Hasselblad. Your preference

may differ, but for <i>me</i> it's the most intuitive camera I picked up. I

would feel differently if I was married to the use of an in-camera light meter,

but I find I do better work when I'm more immersed in the process of photography.

Automation insulates me too much from the process.

<p> Anyway, I've had my share of camera failures with the Hasselblad, primarily

because I've been willing to buy used cameras that have seen extensive professional

use, and I haven't really been willing to pay for having the cameras serviced.

I've learned from that though, and I've found a good repairman...

<p>There's a reason that camera systems like mine are still in service (body built

in 1958, lenses from the early seventies, images as good as I've seen from any

camera). Hasselblad cameras are well-built (over-built?) and parts are still

available. Having said that, if you go out and buy a Bronica SQ brand new (like

my former business partner did) you'll likely have few difficulties.

<p>You work differently with both of these cameras.

<ul>

<li>Both have leaf-shutter lenses, but the Bronica's lenses are timed by the

body so you should see identical exposures with each lens on the same body.

On the Hasselblad each lens has its own shutter, so you may see slightly different

exposure times depending on which lens you've picked up (not in my experience

however). </li>

<li>The Bronica is battery-dependent -- if the battery dies, you're shooting

at 1/500s. The Hasselblad (500 series, for this discussion) isn't.</li>

<li>The Bronica has the shutter speed knob on the left-hand side of the body

and the aperture control on the lens. This is more intuitive if you're coming

from the 35mm world. The Hasselblad has both controls on the lens, and the

lenses are set up so that you can set a particular EV and easily select from

the available shutter speed/aperture combinations. This is more intuitive

if you think in terms of EV's, or it you're a zone system sort of person.</li>

<li>The Hasselblad shutter speeds bottom out at 1 second, for lower speeds you'll

use bulb. The Bronica has a much wider range of speeds.</li>

<li>You can afford a larger Bronica system for the same outlay. You will get

more out of a Hasselblad system when you sell. What is it -- Harley Davidson

and Hasselblad are the only products that go <i>up</i> in value as they age?</li>

<li>If you buy a metered finder for both of these cameras, on the Hasselbad

it will tell you how much light there is in the scene, while the Bronica will

conveniently set the camera for you.</li>

<li>The Hasselblad lenses are second to none. Durability (provided you <i>get

it serviced</i>) is also. Bronica is "good enough." Sometimes clients

see it this way, too.</li>

<li>The Hasselblad system is more complete (by a long shot). 45-degree prisms,

bellows, close-up accessories, long lenses, really short lenses (and the SWC),

focusing knobs for lenses, etc. are all available on one system, but not at

all on the other.</li>

<li>Hasselblad gear can be rented anywhere. I've never seen SQ gear for rent

(though I <i>have</i> seen GS-1 and ETRS gear available).</li>

</ul>

<p>It's a choice. There are a number of people here that are down on Hasselblad

because they've had failures. Some of these were their fault for not understanding

the system, others were problems with the design of the camera. You <i>will</i>

want an unjamming key -- if the mainspring on your 30-year-old never-serviced

80mm Planar breaks, you'll need it to dismount from the camera. If you're not

willing to get your gear serviced and CLA'd every few years, you may want to

choose the Bronica. At least you'll know when something breaks, and it won't

hobble along for a while allowing you to believe everything is fine.</p>

I should be clear here: you can get excellent images with either system. The Hasselblad <i>will</i> cost you more if you ever buy more than the basic kit, but in my opinion the advantages the system offers are worth the expense. Note that I use C lenses and older equipment to keep the costs down, and my opinion may not be that of the majority.<p>

Good luck with your decision.

[squareframe]

Derek,

 

thank you for taking the time to contribute your excellent assessment.

[willie_jan_bons1]

Thanks for the quick reply!

 

The bronica SQ-B is about 3400 dutch guilder something like ($1600) and the SQ-AI 4400 dutch guilders ($2100). It it worth it to by the SQ-AI instead.

when i spread the $500 extra over the years i will use it costs almost nothing each year but when i do not use the extra functionality it buy the cheap one. What you do not have extra won't break down!

[joseph_albert]

Willie,

<p>

The most important difference in functionality between the SQ-B and SQ-Ai is that the SQ-B does not support TTL flash AE. The second most important difference is that you don't have an internal meter for situations where you want to meter through the lens, such as closeup situations where there is light loss to bellows factor. With a handheld meter you can still apply a bellows factor correction to the meter reading, so that's why this is secondary to the loss of TTL flash AE which is a serious benefit to users of strobe flash.

<p>

Unless you need closeup capability, interchangeable backs, or a wide range of focal lengths of lenses, I personally prefer the Mamiya 6 and Mamiya C220F TLR to any of the 6x6 SLRs for such work as landscapes, travel, portraits, candids of people, but that is just my taste. 6x6 SLRs are big, clunky, vibration prone, finnicky, and noisy. But if you want interchangeable backs, superwide lenses, or closeup capability, you'd have to live with those things, or use a view camera.