roger_monroe Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Does anyone have any experience with this printer? How does a quality, nicely scanned image print out? Is the quality at a point where it would be sufficient for fine art printing? I'm interested in this printer for commercial and fine art applications.I think it will be excellent for most commercial printing, but I have more reservations for printing for fine art purposes.I would greatly appreciate anybody's response and dialog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colm boran Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 </head> <body> I suggest you do a search on this site for Epson 2000P. There has been considerable discussion regarding this printer already. There is apparently a problem with the longevity of some of the ink/paper combinations. For starter, see this <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0011KG&topic_id=23&topic=photo%2enet">link</a> or this <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0013Id&topic_id=23&topic=photo%2enet">link.</a> </body> </html> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted October 20, 2000 Share Posted October 20, 2000 There are very few user reports on the 2000P, and no reports about fading with this printer yet. The 870/1270 is a different case entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_randall Posted October 20, 2000 Share Posted October 20, 2000 Here's the Epson 2000p sitehttp://www.egroups.com/group/Epson2000P You'll get eveything you ever wanted to know about the printer: problems,papers, etc. These are everyday users and you'll get many messages a day.Pet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul roark Posted October 20, 2000 Share Posted October 20, 2000 I researched the 2000P rather thoroughly and follow several of the eGroups forums. If you just want color prints up to 13 inches wide, and cost is not an issue, the 2000P may well be the way to go. As one who is also interested in black and white printing, I, however, went a different and cheaper route. I purchased a refurbished Epson 1160 (at refurbdepot.com for $185), which is Epson�s latest/last 4-ink, �non-chipped� printer. It uses such a small drop size that the image quality with color is just slightly less than the 1270 (the best color, but has fading/orange shift problems). (By the way, these Epson-refurbished printers carry the Epson new warranty and apparently have a defect rate that is no worse than new ones. Some say they are less likely to have problems because they have been inspected more thoroughly.) One big advantage of going with the 1160 is that the �non-chipped� cartridges allow third-party suppliers of ink (the 1270 and 2000P have microchips in the cartridges that cut-off this competitive industry). The third-party ink industry gives one access to a large variety of MUCH cheaper inks. These inks include pigmented inks that are relatively fade-resistant. I�m using Media Street�s Generations inks with good success. What one loses with the third-party, pigmented inks is the ability to easily use glossy paper. The unique advance that Epson made with the 2000P is coating the pigment particles with a polymer that allows them to stick on glossy paper. You really pay a price for this, however. I, for one, prefer non-gloss paper. In fact, the Epson Archival Matte for the 2000P is currently my favorite paper for the Generations inks. Other advantages of going with the 1160 include that one can install a �Continuous Inking System� (CIS). The best of these is sold by NoMoreCarts.com. These systems use tubes that connect 4 oz. bottles of ink to the print head. This allows even further savings in ink because you can now use bulk inks. As a black and white printer, the ability to print such was as important as the relatively archival nature of pigmented inks. No color system can print really good black and whites. There are always colorcasts in some of the smooth gray transitions. Moreover, while all color dyes and pigments suffer from some �metamerism� (the shifting of color balance with differing light sources), pigmented inks have more of this �defect� than dyes. As such, one of the big problems with the 2000P is that a print that looks good inside will turn green in daylight. The Generations pigments have the same characteristic. (The 1270 is apparently the best with respect to this characteristic.) Metamerism can be hidden rather well in a color print, but in a black and white print done with color pigments, the defect is a killer. So, for fine art quality black and white prints, one has to use �Quad black� type inks. These are sets of inks with 4 (or 6 for the Epson 1200) shades of gray. The high end here seems to be Cone Editions� �Piezography,� but, again, there is a thriving third-party industry out there for the non-chipped Epson printers. Lyson and MIS also have quad black systems. With the CIS system, one can even switch between color, and black and white inksets relatively easily. The further information, eGroups has several Epson forums that are archived. Browse these for a while and you�ll have a good idea of the pros and cons of the various competing systems. I became convinced that if black and white, or cost-effectiveness were significant factors, the Epson 1160 is not only a better and more flexible system, but also a wild bargain. The main thing you loss is the ability to easily do good glossy prints with pigmented/archival color. You�ll have to stick with matte paper if you want the pigments. Good luck. Everything is a compromise. Paul Roark, http://www.silcom.com/~proark/photos.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_monroe Posted October 20, 2000 Author Share Posted October 20, 2000 Paul. thank you for the detailed response. I have two more questions however.How does the archival life of a B/W print made on the 1160 with after market inks stack up to other options? I visited your website(nice work), were any of those images printed with your Epson 1160 set up? Do you sell inkjet generated prints? Any concerns doing so? Also, I see that you live in Solvang, I lived in Santa Barbara and Santa Maria for a few years-Love the central coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul roark Posted October 20, 2000 Share Posted October 20, 2000 Roger, Nobody really knows what the �archival� lives of these digital/inkjet prints are. There are a fair number of informal �torture tests� that people have run where they put the prints in south-facing windows, on the back shelves of cars under the back windows, and even under the glass of hot-houses. Of course, Wilhelm Research, RIT, and others do formal testing for companies, and some of those results are available. However, the information is far from complete. My guess is that, when properly displayed and cared-for, and when archival paper is used, the pigmented quad-black inks should be good for over 100 years, and the color pigments for more than 50 to 75 years. Note that these numbers are multiples of the expected life Wilhelm gives Cibachrome (I know, it�s the old name, but it�s still Ciba to me), and typical water color paintings and most other color media would probably not stand up to this scrutiny at all. My impression, from the torture test reports is that the fiber-based, selenium-toned silver print is the only thing that tolerates the �south window� treatment for more than a few months. It remains in a class by itself as far as I can tell. On the other hand, when a forum contributor states that a Generations print has been on the back shelf of his car for seven months without fading, I�m impressed. The second best photographic medium after the archival silver print is probably the Epson 2000P print on the �Archival Matte� paper. The Epson pigments appear from one test to do better than the others at least where exposed to sun, heat and high humidity. The polymer coating may be an advantage in fighting the humidity. The standard for outside displays by the wide-format printers appears to be pigmented inks with sprayed-on UV and waterproof coatings. (These coatings are also sometimes used by people who want glossy prints using the (non-coated) third-party pigmented inks, as the sprayed-on coatings stick the pigment particles to the surface of the glossy paper.) So, Epson has thrown out 200 years of display life before fading for its 2000P on its �Archival Matte� paper. However, they (and Wilhelm) totally missed the 1270�s susceptibility to ozone (turns the glossy prints orange). One wonders what Epson has missed with the 200-year claim. It appears that the coatings the paper manufacturers use to control dot gain, and thus get sharper prints and deeper blacks, are among the weaker links now. Most tend to yellow somewhat in the torture tests. Additionally, Wilhelm has noted that the sprayed-on coatings often lower the lives of prints. If these coatings are the weak links, what confidence should we have that Epson�s polymer coating on its pigments will not cause problems? On the other hand, it appears that, properly cared-for pigment-based prints � Quads, third-party color, and 2000P � are sufficiently stable that one can sell them without concern. Frankly, why should we worry about people who expose their prints to direct sun and other conditions that even destroy the duct tape that people have used in these torture tests? Even Epson stresses the need to store and display its 2000P prints with some care. My interest in the inkjet output is to have a medium that is easy enough to produce that I can sell them relatively cheaply. I�m not a professional photographer who makes a living at this, but I do have requests for prints. However, most people don�t want to pay the $400 that I�ll charge for a framed, archival silver print. (And I won�t go to the work of producing one for less.) The inkjet route gives me a way to sell to the people who want copies at a price that (I hope) they can afford. I�ve got one scheduled to be in an upcoming show with a $175 price tag on it, and we�ll see what happens. I�m comfortable that at that price point the pigmented inks on Epson�s Archival Matte paper are more than stable enough to keep everyone happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul roark Posted October 21, 2000 Share Posted October 21, 2000 For a detailed comparison of Epson 13" printers, see http://www.tssphoto.com/sp/dg/news/13_comp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles_bandes1 Posted October 23, 2000 Share Posted October 23, 2000 I have been using a 2000p for a couple months now and have been very pleased with the results I've gotten. Prints on both the Semigloss and Matte papers are truly excellent, and so far I've had no problems with image stability. I can confirm that there is some metamerism present in the black and white prints I've made using color inks - these appear to have a greenish cast under bright sunlight, but are neutral under artificial light. I have not seen a noticable color shift with color prints under sunlight. My only complaint right now would probably be the same with any inkjet printer - I am having trouble getting satisfactory prints on 100% rag printmaking paper, but since this paper is not designed for inkjet printing, it's hard to complain - prints on inkjet papers have been excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansio Posted August 12, 2001 Share Posted August 12, 2001 Nice hearing that all of you are pleased with this printer. I now do have experience with the 1200, the 1270 and since a few weeks the 2000P. Indeed the colours and gloss are fantastic but also from this side the complaint about the cartridges. The price is an absolute schandal. More because of the fact that one can't use other brands. For using different materials to print on, I do have good results for years now with etching-paper. I do buy a whole bundle in the size of over a meter by 1.40 and cut that back to the sizes I need for my prints. Specialy the paper by Modiani, type 100/100 cotton is rally great. The inkt on the other papers did use to stay perfect, even after exposing it to direct sunlight. I can only hope that the results with this inkt will be the same. Greetings from the Netherlands. Hans Molenkamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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