Nikon F4 vs. N90S or F100

[nikon geek]

My wife and I are looking to get another F100. We also already have

an N90S that will act as our third camera. However, I am wondering

about the possibility of replacing the N90S with the F4. What makes

the F4 the more expensive camera to buy used, and what makes it

better than the N90S? How does it compare to the F100?

 

Thanks!

 

Nathan

[klix]

<a href="http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/nikon_articles/body/chart/nikon_body_comparison_chart.html">HERE</a> is a Nikon SLR body comparison chart from Nikonians.org.

 

<p><p>

[ist_petit]

I feel the most important strength of F4 is its mirror lock-up,besides F4 being made of metal body except vewfinder(though it's a little heavy).Because you already have F100, I suggest F4 being a better choice.

[jim_seaman]

Nathan,

 

I have both an F100 and an F4 so I can compare a bit.

 

The F100: is faster and more accurate focusing, has better fill flash capabilities, faster fill flash sync, lcd panel (actually a con for me), newer - two control wheel interface, ability to use VR lenses

 

The F4: slightly slower and less accurate focus (than the F100 - though it really isn't that bad), more robust feeling - almost 'industrial', traditional control layout, WONDERFUL usability for older manual focus lenses - including matrix metering on ai and ai-s lenses, replacable finders, mirror lockup.

 

I use the F100 when ever I need a faster, lower light, auto focus capability or when I want better automatic fill flash. I use the F4 just about any other time... Mind you, the F4 isn't really bad at either of those two areas, its just that the F100 is a little better.

 

Hard to choose but if you've got an F100 already a good, used F4 is hard to beat.

 

Good luck with your decision,

 

Jim Seaman

[steve_levine]

The three represnt the evolution of Nikon AF,with the F100 being the V8 engine!The F4 was ok in its day,and the N90s was an improvement,but the F100 blows both away.

[joseph_smith3]

I looked at the chart. I know that the N90s has in between shutter speeds ( I have two of them) , in one third stops, as, I believe, does the F100. I could not tell if the F4s had this feature, from the chart and the other Nikon literature I have in my files. If the F4 does not have this feature, it would not be a better camera for me. If you take slides, this feature is essential to accurate exposures. If all of the cameras have the same exposure features, check to see if they operate about the same for the way in which you will be using them. Again, I believe the N90s and the F100 are pretty close to each other. If you do a lot of macro, and you need mirror lock up and 100% viewing, then consider a used F 4s or a F5. I believe that the meter on the F4 is a 5 segment matrix compared to an 8 segment on the 90s and a 10 segment on the F100. Read you manual on your F100 to see if the activation of the self timer locks up the mirror before the shutter goes off. Joe Smith

[todd peach seattle, washi]

The F4 does not do 'tweener' speeds in manual. One can of course dial in compensation in an auto mode to get them, but you can't set them directly.

 

The F4 is more of a 'system' camera than the N90s. If you think you'll make use of the interchangable finders, it's worth it from that standpoint alone. Even just removing the finder gives you a 'poor mans waistlevel finder', a feature I find useful.

 

I seem to be one of the few people that use an F4 from time to time who really doesn't care for it all that much. For me, it's neither fish nor fowl. The AF isn't in the same league as the N90s or F100 (I have both of those too). For MF, I don't find the screen image as nice as an F3. The F3 is what I turn to for a 'system camera' more often.

 

I should like the F4 more. It's got maybe the best meter display in manual of any Nikon. It's got much better flash features than the F3. I keep picking it up; maybe with use I'll learn why folks like it so much.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"The F4 does not do 'tweener' speeds in manual. One

can of course dial in compensation in an auto mode to get them,

but you can't set them directly." --Todd Peach <br>

</em><br>

Im finding those speeds very useful with my 400/5.6 ED AI.

This lens is slow enough that you want to shoot wide open most of

the time. This means manual on the F5 or either the F3 or F5 with

aperture preferred and exposure lock. <br>

<br>

<em>"For MF, I don't find the screen image as nice as an F3."

--Todd Peach<br>

</em><br>

Im quite certain the F4 and F3 have similar quality of

focus screens and prisms. The F4/F4s has a 0.7x finder

magnification, the F3 (DE-2) has 0.8x magnification. This is

enough difference to be noticeable. The electronic rangefinder

can help with the F4 but not in the way I think Todd is focusing.

I think he means focusing on most any area of an E or B screen.

The F100 also has the 0.7x finder magnification. The F3HP and F5

fall in between with a 0.75x magnification. I notice a difference

between the F5 and F100. The F5 with its electronic rangefinder

is very nice, I prefer the F3 (DE-2) over the F3HP (DE-3).<br>

<br>

This my seem like splitting hairs but it helps when working fast

in low light where one may be shooting wide open or with critical

focus for telephotos and macro.<br>

<br>

I liked the F4/F4s and didnt want to let mine go but I

found I always used the F5 in preference. The F5 is a bit too

heavy as an only camera for many. An F5 with an FM2n, FE2 or FM3a

would be fine or an F5 with an F100 or an F3.<br>

<br>

The F4 can be fitted with a MB-20 battery pack to shed some

weight. Curiously the F4s felt heavier to me than the F5. When

loaded with lithium batteries and with a 1" strap the F3 (DE-2)

and MD-4, F4s and F5 weight 1340, 1340 and 1344g. The F4 weighs

just 1,164g with MB-20, 1" strap and lithium batteries. The

F3HP with MD-4 weighs 1,384g or 44g more than the F3 with MD-4.

The F100 weighs 861g with starap and lithium batteries.<br>

<br>

Im going to recommend an F5 or an F3 with MD-4 over the F4/F4s.

If most or all of your lenses are AF Ill recommend the F5.<br>

<br>

Regards,<br>

<br>

Dave.

[nick_withers]

As its a third camera do you really waht the weight of the F4? Although the camera is pretty much bulletproof, it is really heavy. As such I think its not the best extra body, and would personnally go for something lighter, which I would more happily always have in my bag.

[vgoklani]

well, since you already have two film cameras, why not get a D100? just a thought, I know a lot of people still don't want to touch digital stuff. but with the D70 coming out @ $999, I would imagine that a NEW D100 would be around $750 - and a USED D100 would be around $500. Of course these numbers are pure fabrication, but nevertheless, I am saving my pennies in anticipation of the big day!

 

incidentially, I had the opportunity to play with a D1X today, let's just say that I can't wait to get one of those used on eBay!

[ist_petit]

"with the D70 coming out @ $999, I would imagine that a NEW D100 would be around $750 "

Be asure that D100 is superior to D70,just as F100 is to F80.

[john_n._wall]

You are asking us to compare apples and oranges, in a way. The N90/s and F100 bodies are Nikon's second-tier bodies, successors to the 8008/s body, which was the one-step-down body from the F4 in its day. At that point in the line (between the 6006/N70/N80 model and the top-of-the-line model), the N90 and its enhanced N90s version were the stepping stone to the F5 and F100 generation of cameras.

<br><br>

What this means is that the F4 is comparable only to the F3 and F5 in that you pay for (and get) the feature set of a top-of-the-line Nikon body -- enhanced performance, flexibility,and durability; MLU; interchangeable viewfinders and backs; and other things that give you access to the full Nikon pro line of accessories and lenses.

<br><br>

The F4 is unique in extensive backward and forward compatibility. It can use more of the Nikkor line of lenses with all its meters than any other Nikon -- from older MF lenses through the AF-S lenses -- and its AF speed with non-AF-S lenses is very adequate for most purposes. Its AF speed with AF-S lenses is very fast, since the speed of AF is determined by the motor in the lens, not the motor in the body. I certainly use it in AF mode all the time with nonAF-S lenses, with no problems. I learn the circumstances in which it works well and depend on it for that. That is to say, it AFs best with fast glass when there is adequate contrast in the subject. Since I do not shoot fast action sports, its limits are not a problem. The AF works well under real world situations.

<br><br>

The F4 is not compatible with VR lenses, but when shutter speed is an issue I think you ought to be shooting off a tripod anyway.<br><br>

There is also a "feel" to the F4 that lots of us like. The F4 is developing almost a cult following among those of us who value a fine camera but do not need to chase the "latest thing" in high tech gear. The quality of the materials and finish on this body, the sound of the shutter, the ruggedness of the camera all add up to an enjoyable photographic experience. Imagine that the N90/s is a Camry; the F4 is a Lexus. Both will get you there but the F4 will get you there with more style.

<br><br>

I haven't worked on it much lately, but the F4 FAQ at <br><br><a href="http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/j/jnwall/html/f4faq.htm">http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/j/jnwall/html/f4faq.htm</a> <br><br>has lots more information about the F4.<br>

<br>Imagine the F4 and Nikkor lenses as a poor man's Leica system -- outstanding quality of finish and peerless performance within its acknowledged limits. But if you are not making a living shooting sports, I can't imagine a situation in which the F4 will not bring home the goods for you.

[alex_lofquist]

I use both of these cameras, and prefer the F4 (with MB-10 4 cell pack) when doing macros with the PG-2 rack-and-pinion focussing mount. The F4S is preferable to the F5 when using MF (manual focussing) long telephoto lenses. Both situations almost demand mirror lock-up which the N90S and F100 omit. However, if I were restricted to a single camera I would probably choose the F100.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"The F4S is preferable to the F5 when using MF (manual

focussing) long telephoto lenses." --Alex Lofquist<br>

</em><br>

With lower finder magnification, a slower less accurate

electronic rangefinder and identical quality prisms and focus

screens, why the F4s is preferable escapes me. What have I

overlooked?

[scott_warn]

One advantage to the F, F2, F3, F4, & the F5 cameras is that you still have the option of rewinding the film by hand and leaving the leader out.

 

I do not yet own the F4, someday I get around to buying one to fill out my F collection. I do have the F5 and it is a serious tool with exceptional capabilities, which the F4 nearly matches. Because I don't own one, I can only relate what I have found to be the positives from handling them in camera stores.

 

Choosing between the N90s and the F4, I would choose the F4 if the price, of the F4, was within about 100 dollars. The F4 does offer some features, and build quality, that the top rank second tier cameras don't. In favor of the F4 are higher wind speeds, mirror lockup, interchangable finders, manual rewind, and a seperate pc sync socket. Those dials that seem so ancient do allow you to operate the camera faster, they allow direct settings. I don't care how fast you are, pushing a button while turning another dial and watching a screen will never be as fast as just turning a dial. In favor for the N90 and the F-100 are the lighter weight.

 

Between the F-100 and the F4 at the same price, it would depend on which features are more important, mirror lockup, pc socket, and manual rewind versus the lighter weight of the F-100.

 

As for "tweener" shutter speeds, it would surprise the heck out of me if this could not be done. Both the F2 and the F3 offered "tweener" settings and I would certainly expect the F4 to have continued with that scheme. Perhaps someone with an F4 manual could do some reading and clarify if this is possible. I think that this is an issue that is way over emphasized unless you are shooting with a fixed aperture lens. Setting the lens aperture between stops has always been my primary method of fine tuning the expusure and it always works.

 

As for the AF issue, I have found that every Nikon AF made since, and including, the N8008s to offer AF that is much faster than I can focus manually. That is the issue that put me into AF in the first place, the speed. Nothing is better, for me, in fast breaking settings that AF. Some of the earlier cameras do have some issues in low light with a slow lens, since I mainly shoot with primes faster that f2.8 it is not a problem for me.

[davidde_stella]

I had an N90s for a year and then sold it. I was not really impressed with it as it was not

quite a soilid tool nor did it have that bright of a viewfinder (then again, i shoot with

rangefinders mostly). If trying to decide whether to get an F100 or an F4, you might want

to consider which of two people will be using ten years from now.

[mfophotos]

I bought a used F4s last summer and it is the best Nikon I have ever used.

What i like best -- no damn little buttons -- all the controls are traditional with

no lcd screens and fiddly controls to get in the way. The AF is fine -- not as

fast as an N80, for sure. Remember, it WAS the top of the line camera for

Nikon. N90 --second tier.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"As for "tweener" shutter speeds, it would

surprise the heck out of me if this could not be done." --Scott

Warn<br>

</em><br>

For the F3 and F4 shutter speeds between the standard ones are

only possible in aperture preferred. The F2 had step-less shutter

speeds between 1/80th and 1/2,000th. One could estimate 1/3rd

stops with care and 1/2 stops with relative ease. The F5 gives

these with the command dial in precise 1/3 increments.<br>

<br>

Ive disagreed with Scott Warn maybe thee times or so on the

F5. Its amusing that Ive done the same with Shun

Cheung only Ive been supporting the classic interface not

the command dials. It could be that Im just being perverse

but its not. It could be the western ethic of supporting

the under dog and its most likely a touch of this but its

really about using the best tool for the job. If you have an F3

and an F5 you can chose whichever system best fits your current

needs.<br>

<br>

My preference is clearly the F3 or the F5 over the F4.<br>

<br>

Best,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.

[alan_chin]

Definitely get the F100. It is the best Nikon AF body ever made, by

far. It is smaller and lighter than the F5 with the same real-world

functionality (that is, field as opposed to studio, scientific, or

sports use.)

 

The quieter shutter and film advance, the build quality, the option

to set aperture with a thumbwheel (although I do not use this

feature), ALL blow the N90s away.

 

N90s if they are really beaten up (like mine was) feel feeble,

even after 2 trips to the shop at $250 each time. So I sold it for

almost nothing. Granted, I probably put 1000+ rolls of film

through it in all sorts of conditions.

 

The F4 is an antiquated beast. Excellent build quality and

extremely rugged, but even without the big "F4s" motor addition

and new lithium instead of traditional batteries, it still weighs a

ton. It still sells for a decent amount of money because there are

lots of people who like that weight, sturdiness. But its AF is really

slow in comparison with the F100, and for the other features, like

the removable finder, you are better off with a F3, F2, or F.

[astral]

If you have manual focus lenses and ain't bothered about the hernia (or lightning speed AF) then the F4 wins hands down - you can stick almost any Nikkor made since 1971-ish of an F4 and it'll work ok. More than can be said for the F80/N80/F5/F100. The F4 probably has the best backwards (and indeed forwards) compatibility in the Nikon line-up. At 2.5kg with a 28-70 f2.8 lens I don't get much camera shake, even at 1/16th sec. Finding a good one can be a real problem though.

 

If you only have modern S/VR Nikkors then skip the F4. The F80/N80 is a better "bang for the buck" than the F100, but you're tied to AFn lenses and later with these models - they don't work proper with old lenses. Dump the N90!

 

I hiked around the Rockies (MT) last year with an F4 AND a Mamiya 645. Darned heavy, but I'm now a lot thinner and fitter! This year I'll do Utah with a F80/N80 AND an F4 AND a 645 camera.

 

Finally, you can fight your way out of a Dublin Bar on a Saturday night with an F4 . . . In fact it's so darned impressive that bar-brawl combatants seeing one will probably pose for a photo!

 

Alan C

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"...you can stick almost any Nikkor made since 1971-ish

of an F4 and it'll work ok." --Alan Clayton<br>

</em><br>

Arent you the guy Im having trouble with in another

thread? ;)<br>

<br>

Actually you can use most any F Bayonet Nikkor lens made since

1959 on the F4 and F4s. There as some limitations with the G-Types.

On the F4 and F4s you have to use Shutter Preferred and Program

modes. There are some lenses that require MLU and though they can

be used its recommend that you NOT because most owners will

eventually damage the mirror in there F4 (also F2, 3 and 5).

Again you are home free to use most any F Bayonet Nikkor lens

made since 1959 with the F4 and F4s.<br>

<br>

If you have your F5 modified you call use most all the early

Nikkors also. The F5 needs the AI and AIS lenses chipped for

Matrix metering. The F5 can use G-Type lenses of which there are

a couple I would very much like. Most of my lenses are AI and AIS.

I have a few choice AF-D zooms.<br>

<br>

Due to metering considerations the F3 and F5 are better platforms

for hardcore macro fanatics. The F4 as a problem with macro

setups slower than f/5.6 due to the design of the semi-silvered

mirror.<br>

<br>

I recommend that F4s owner give strong consideration to adding an

MB-20 battery pack. Here are some weights for Nikon cameras...<br>

<br>

F5 = 1,344g *(w/ Energizer L91 batteries)<br>

F4s = 1,340g *(w/ Energizer L91 batteries)<br>

<strong>F4 = 1,164g *(w/ Energizer L91 batteries)<br>

</strong>F3 (DE-2) w/ MD-4 =1340g *(w/ Energizer L91 batteries)<br>

F3 (DE-2) 746g *(w/ two S-76 silver oxide batteries)<br>

<br>

Note the F4 in bold. That is the weight with the MB-20 battery

pack. A nice savings if you are hiking or back packing and want a

camera with a motor. All these cameras include a 1" Nikon AN-4B

nylon strap.<br>

<br>

<em>"The F4 is an antiquated beast." --Alan Chin<br>

</em><br>

Come on! Thats a bit too hard on the F4. Although I prefer

the F5 and the F3 the F4 and F4s are strong contenders. If I had

had an extra thousand in mad money in the spring of 2001 Id

still have my F4s. Damn! All Id need would be a Nikon F and

Id have The Pentalogy!<br>

<br>

Isnt NAS Great!

[alex_lofquist]

Sorry that I couldn't get back to answer why I felt that the F4 had a few advantages over the F5. My computer had an insideous virus which didn't allow posting of replys on forums.

 

As you know I use both the F4S and F5. Each has its own place for me. I like the F5 for most applications, but find that I prefer the F4 (4-cell configuration) for macros when using the rack-and-pinion mount. While the F4S (6-cell) will work, it must be realigned when switching between horizontal and vertical formats. The F4 stays in alignment. Similarly, the F5 also requires realignment.

 

I like the F4S when using my 500 f/4P, especially if using the TC14B converter. I can then use matrix metering if I wish. The TC14B is not compatable with MM on the F5. (I wish that it were.)

Actually things work out very well with my tripod-mounted 500/700 on the F4S and my 300f/4 on the F5 close by, for those quick grab shots. It is the best of both worlds!

[david_h._hartman]

"F4s = 1,340g *(w/ Energizer L91 batteries)" --David H. Hartman

 

My error, the F4s weighs 1,366g with L91 batteries and 1" nylon neck strap.