howard_b Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 When I load 120 film into my 220 magazine, I know that I get erratic spacing and that I get only 11 shots. No problem there. My issue is that the film does not always roll tightly. When I took out my Ilford 400, for example, I found that it was slightly "puffy"-- that is, not wound as it should be. When this happens, my only solution is to race to a dark place, and try to keep the film tight enough until I make it to the lab. I suspect there is a better way, or that I am doing something wrong, or that I really ought to invest in another A12. Is this an Ilford issue (I haven't kept track, so I don't recall whether Kodak or Fuji behaves badly as well). Any insights are welcome. Thanks - Howard Blumenthal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_p._fisher_jr. Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 >>I suspect there is a better way, or that I am doing something wrong, or that I really ought to invest in another A12.<< 120 film backs are designed for the thickness of the film plus that of the backing paper. 220 film backs are designed for the thickness of the film, since the paper serves only as a leader and trailer, not as a backing. Because of this, you may experience focus issues when using 120 film in a 220 back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas_carl Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 I don't know, I am running 120 film (Ilford Delta and Fuji Velvia and Provia) just fine through my A24 back. Get 12 exposures on it and no problems with focus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_rosenthal Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Howard, et al... Focus can't be problem, actually. The emulsion of the film, whether it's 120 or 220 sits against the side rails of the back. This is what determines the film plane. By way of exaggeration, you could put a thick piece of cardboard behind the film and wouldn't affect the film plane. The pressure plate only helps hold the film flat AND against the side rails. The backs are identical in everyway except the winding mechanism and counter assembly. As far as looseness goes... I'd try using a different take up spool. The film is irrelevant but the take-up spool isn't. This could also be a mechanical problem with the back. The film isn't, under any circumstances, supposed to back up in the back. This would explain the looseness you discribe. Peter - PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_b Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 Peter: When you suggest a different take up reel, my options would seem to be Kodak, Fuji, or Ilford take up reels (the remaining piece after the previous film itself unspools). Are you thinking that I need a Fuji takeup for a new roll of Fuji film, etc.? This seems strange, as though it's too specific. Anybody else having this problem? Should it take it to Hasselblad USA? Thanks again. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_rosenthal Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Howard- Ilford spools are a measurably different diameter than the others. This would/could/may/possibly take care of the "puffiness" that you describe. A larger diameter would cause more film to be taken up every frame. Larger frame spacing as well. A smaller diameter would cause less film to be taken up. It's just a variable that you have control of. You have precious little control of these sorts of things short of take-up spool size. I hope this makes sense. The detailed function of Hassy backs is not intuitively understood nor easily explained. No other film winding function in camera history works like these backs. A lot can go wrong with these backs. Everything from worn parts to notoriously bad lubricants can cause all sorts of strange behavior. My guess is that it needs work. The take-up spool thing is just something you have control of. Try it. It may help. Peter - PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_b Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 Peter: Would the problem likely disappear if I used only 120 in my A12 back, and only 220 in my A24 back? As it happens, I have one of each. Acknowledging all that you wrote about spool diameters, and other issues, I wonder about this simpler solution. Thanks for the help! Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_rosenthal Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I'm all in favor of using the backs as designed!! This will tell you if you have a problem with the backs or some other malady caused by mixing film sizes. If it works perfectly, we know it's the longer, thinner film causing problems. If you still get slackness we know it's the back needing maintenance. I just figured you were dead set on using 220! Let me know what you find. Peter - PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_b Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 I'll try the experiment this weekend, and I'll report back next week. Thanks for the attention. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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