tim geiss Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 All, I recently purchased a 2200 and am fairly pleased with the Color prints that is has produced. My problem is that the prints don't look as much like a photo lab quality as that of my friend printing off of his Epson R300 (@$180). I am satisfied with the color balance, contrast, saturation, etc. What bothers me (and sets them apart), is that when I tilt the print under direct light (any source), I see a reflective nature in the colors and more specifically, at the edges in between the colors. It appears to be happening predominantly in the shadow areas. I am printing on a Red River semi-gloss paper using the corresponding profile with photo black ink. Is the paper too glossy? Is it problem using the photo black instead of matte black ink? Should I or shouldn't I use the "edge smoothing" option from the advanced printing options. What other options might I try? This doesn't have anything to do with metamerism?...I thought that was only an issue when trying to achieve neutral B/W prints... Obviously, without seeing all of my settings, this could be hard to diagnose, but if anyone has experienced this, please share. Thanks,Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik scanhancer Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Timothy, You describe the effect called 'bronzing'. It mostly appears with glossy papers and pigmented inks. These inks can't sink into the shiny surface of the paper and so they have a semi-matte appearance compared to less dense areas. Basically the pigmented inks are only good for matte papers, which I find very beautiful but is very much a matter of taste (and discussion!). Some people are using Lyson's PremierArt Printshield on their semi-gloss pigmented prints. It is a spray designed to make your prints last longer, but it also reduces bronzing because it puts a thin 'laquer' layer over the pigments, imitating the sunk in effect. It is not known if this will work on high gloss papers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaginator Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Have you tried Epson papers? Matte papers should work better and look good once mounted under glass (to me) There is also a glossy paper made for the pigment inks (haven't tried it yet) I'll admit, I just started doing black and white digitally, but my experiences with inkjets in general is that ink/paper combo is very important. Also, we all have different tastes, so I suggest you get both types of ink and try them on several different papers. Alternately, if you know someone with similar Epson printer but using the other type black ink, perhaps you could could use it to make a few prints on different papers (maybe offer some paper for their trouble) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim geiss Posted December 18, 2003 Author Share Posted December 18, 2003 Gentlemen, Thanks for your prompt responses. I will look into that Lyson Printshield. I have 50 sheets of this semi-gloss paper (I bought it when using a 1280 at school) left and that product sounds like it might allow me to finish it off. After that, I plan on switching over to matte papers. I knew there were problems printing with pigment inks on Glossy, but I wasn't sure in what form they manifested. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk_thompson Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Because of bronzing, the consensus is that the 2200 is at its best as a matte paper printer. Suggest you make workprints on Enhanced Matte & final prints on Epson Velvet Fine Art. If you like a plastic/RC pearl look, you can use Epson Luster. If you like glossy, try Pictorico. Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnold_theisen Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 There is no doubt that Epson's Enhanced Matte produces nice prints. This paper should be printed with the matte black ink. However, I've also been getting very nice prints using Inkjetart's Ceramic Luster paper and Photo Black ink. Inkjetart's Ceramic Luster is said to be very similar, if not identical to, Epsons Premium Luster paper. It is also cheaper to buy. If you don't want to mess with complicated ICC color management try Norman Koren's settings for the 2200 which you can find at: http://normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Another good option that gives very reduced bronzing on my 2200 is Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl paper. This is also very similar to Epson's own but with a coarser surface. Identical to Ilford Multigrade IV RC silver gelatin paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich815 Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Try Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl (<b>not Classic</b>). I find it has the least or most acceptable bronzing of any semi-gloss paper I've used on my 2200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake_tauber Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 I have had great results with Epson Premium Luster paper. I highly recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_eaton Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 <i>"Epson Premium Luster paper"</i><P>I've had several prints made off the 2200 on Epson Premium Luster and have observed no bronzing. I have with glossy, which I avoid with ink-jet printers anyways.<P>Epson Premium Luster is becoming the defacto standard for these printers, and I strongly urge you try a few sheets to see if it solves the problem because I have yet to see an 'alternative' coated paper work as well as Epson's own papers. Matte is a different story. If the alternative paper brands claim they work as well as Epson papers, they can start building their own printers, providing support and R&D for them, and then I can complain when Epson papers don't work as well with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_reese2 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 What is being called "bronzing" here is called "differential gloss" by Epson. Tetenal makes a high gloss media which won a shootout at PMA when printed with a Epson 2200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john falkenstine Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 As Jake noted above, the premium luster paper solves the bronzing problem very well. Since using that paper, I have stopped using Glossy paper completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesp Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Here's my vote for Pictorico PGGP. I've had zero bronzing, since giving up on Epson Premium Glossy and Professional Glossy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seancrane Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I've been testing many papers with the 2200 and prefer the Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl to the Epson Luster because of its heavier weight. There is only a minimal amount of bronzing with both of these papers. For glossy papers I've found that the Pictorico Photo Gallery Glossy paper exhibits the least bronzing. Epson's Professional Glossy Paper (not to be confused with the Premium Glossy Photo Paper) also performs well and exhibits almost no bronzing. It is a glossy paper but has a bit of a texture to the surface. It is also hard to find and only comes in 13 x 19 inch sheets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_thomas3 Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I would also suggest at least trying the (cheaper?) Ilford Premium Glossy - it gives very evenly glossy results on my 1270, better than Epson's best IMO. I also like the Ilford Satin a lot, even *though* it does give a strong 'relief' effect.. there is just something wonderful about the texture of that paper. I have been *most* impressed with the new Ilford papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikj Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I am unclear as to what the differences in finishes and qualities are on these papers, also which will give me the best result. They have gloss, semi-gloss, luster, pearl, satin, matte, and there's a "color life" paper as well as a water color matte paper. Then they have "dupont commercial grade", "enhanced", "premium", no adjective regular "photo" paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron_w. Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Can someone please describe the differences between Epson's Enhanced Matte and their Heavyweight Matte? Also, is one more 'archival' than the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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