david_wilson7 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I am interested in purchasing a FED-2 camera off Ebay. As I was thinking about buying one, it hit me: these things are all mechanical, so how in the world do I find the exposure? The answer that occured to me first was to use a manual light meter. Is there another way? Can I use sunny 16 somehow? Light meters are expensive, so I would rather not purchase one. If I do have to, what is a good value? Medium format fascinates me, but I don't think I will have the $'s for a set-up for a while(any classic set-ups for really cheap?). But, if I do go MF, I will need a light meter. So, I would need one that would last me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry_mobbs Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 If money is tight, buy a selenium meter on ebay with the assurances that it is working. They don't need batteries though they won't be accurate in low light. It won't hurt to do Sunny 16 with print film most of the day but you'll learn it faster if you can check your guess against a reliable meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_davis2 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Depending on how tight money is you can get a cheap meter for under $100 that will do everything but spot. Sunny 16 works if you pay attention to it. It's like anything else you need more practise to get it right that when you let the machine to it. Look for a TLR. Flexarets are cheap. Well made. Some good sellers on Ebay from the central Europe. Flexarets might cost less then that Fed-2 when you factor in shipping from Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_wilson7 Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 Excuse my ignorance, but what does TLR mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_davis2 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 twin lens reflex. The camera has a viewing lens and a separte taking lens. http://www.meopta.cz/history/products/history.phtml?products=cameras Look like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_wilson7 Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 Wow! Those are inexpensive. Are talking pretty good image quality here? Since the main reason to go MF is to get good image quality, will I be getting that with one of these? Are there some good pages with some more info on the(how to use, ect.)? Thanks for you help. These old cameras are all pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_loshin3 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 TLR = Twin Lens Reflex $100 for a light meter seems kind of high. Weston Masters of various types and shapes seem to pop up on the famous auction website, regularly going for $10 or so. If memory serves, I paid about $15 for a reliable one from a reliable eBay seller last year. Just checked it against my digital today in low light as well as bright overcast, and it seemed to be as accurate as necessary.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_eastwood Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I agree with the above advice. I got a Gossen Pilot lightmeter to use with my fed 2. The light meter is very small. Even so, it seemed inconvenient to carry and I began to use sunny sixteen instead. The fed 2 looked neat, but wasn't durable, and I replaced it with a Fed 3 which is more useful as a picture taker. I put the collapsible, russian-made copy of elmar lens onto the fed 3 and again used sunny sixteen. I frequently use the camera and use only Fuji 200asa print film. I really like the results, it is one of my favorite cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_wilson7 Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 My reading around the net lead me to believe that FED-2s were pretty reliable. Is this wrong? Thanks for pointing out those light meters. They do look really old, though, but I guess that doesn't mean they can't still work. I'm very excited about that Flexaret camera. MF is within my grasp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_linn Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Older seleniun meters (no battery needed) such as the Weston Masters are excellent accurate meters in any kind of natural daylight. They are not accurate in artificial light. I have a General Electric DW-68 from about 1950 which I purchased for $5 on e-bay. I use it regularly with excellent results when I use my older meterless cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john lehman, college alask Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 You should be able to get a good used meter on everyone's favorite auction site for under $20. There are also detailed exposure tables available in older photo books. I have often used tables for print film -- they work quite well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pc1 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 David, here are some other medium format cameras that you should check out b4 buying a Fed2.you could even carry them in ur pocket most of the time.they dont have meters either,even if it has, you'll have to have it calibrated by a good camera technician,as they're 50 yrs.old. Happy hunting ! hope u get a real good pic taker....pc http://www.pibweb.com/ross/Campix/folders.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_wilson7 Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 Wow, thats alot of cameras there. Which one of those do you reccomend most? Do these MF cameras fit on the standard 35MM tripod mount? Mods, I realize that I'm getting off topic here. Maybe you can change the thread title to reflect where this thread is going. Sorry if I'm being disruptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_wilson7 Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 And yes, another question. Are these old MF cameras still good picture takers? Since the appeal of MF is better image quality, I want to know whether these old cameras take sharp pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silent1 Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Back to your original question, I have a Gossen Sixtomat selenium meter that I've had for about thirty years. Due to being away from photography for a lot of those years, and the meter being in a drawer or bag, with the cover closed, it doesn't show the loss of sensitivity often reported for older selenium meters.<p> None the less, I find I'm using it less and less since reading the information at <a href="http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm">The Ultimate Exposure Computer</a> site. Mostly, now, I'm looking at the lighting for daylight scenes and just setting the camera -- yes, like Sunny 16. It's actually easier -- I routinely carry three cameras, often loaded with two or three different films, usually at least one of a different speed from the others. Rather than readjust the meter's ASA/ISO setting when I change cameras, I just readjust my internal exposure computer -- which doesn't require a free hand.<p> I'm not ready to sell my Sixtomat yet, and I'm still a little shaky on lighting conditions dimmer than deep shade, but I'm getting there -- and meantime, I miss fewer shots from the time taken for metering, and misexpose no more than I did with the meter (because I used to have to try to meter an average when I couldn't use incident; now I find it easier to compensate, compared to telling myself the meter is wrong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_lofquist Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 An excellent light meter from the '50s and '60s was the GE PR-1. It would be easily operated by one hand giving direct scale readigs of aperture vs shutter speed. Unlike the Weston masters, you could lock the reading with a pushbutton. It was about the same size and I believe that it had almost the same sensitivity to light. Its dual ranges were more convenient to operate than the Westons. It did have an incident light attachment (included, and not an accessory). I had two of each meter, and almost always would choose the PR1 to take along with me. The GE seemed more rugged, though all of them finally bit the dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Ditto Fred Parker's Ultimate Exposure Computer. The better you understand the data he's gathered and how light works, the better your exposures will be with or without a meter, especially in tricky situations. I rely on the UEC and reciprocity data for my nighttime photography where meters are typically useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_davis2 Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 The Flexarets use a European 3/8" tripod mount. They need an adapter that around here costs a couple of bucks. They'll take fine pictures. With the Flexarets you'll be happiest sticking to one of the newer models [V,VI or VII]. They have better lens and shutters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_w. Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0062JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_bedell Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Sunny 16 (as explained on the UEC) + Ilford XP2 Super C-41 Black and White Film ($2.89 a 36-exposure roll from B&H if you can't get it locally) This film has a large exposure latitude. And I find way-off black and white shots often come out better than way-off color. The Kodak C-41 black and white would be a reasonable substitute if XP2 is too much trouble to get. And optionally (controversially?), if you're getting machine prints, printed by a Fuji Frontier. It does a reasonable job guessing at how to print each individual picture on a roll, giving you even more room for error. Sure, get a meter eventually, but try shooting a few rolls without. I am definitely not perfect at it, but you get much better results than you would imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_green1 Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I would also reitterate the advice to get a nice medium format TLR. For well under $100, you could get a nice one with a very good lens from Meopta, Ricoh, or Yashica. In addition to the Meopta Flexarets mentioned above, a nice, cleanly working Yashica Mat could be obtained for under $75 (I paid $59 + $9 shipping for mine). I picked up a Weston Master II at a camera show for $5 at a camera fair a couple of years ago, and it works fine. In addition, A nice Gossen Pilot or Sekonic could also be gotten for < $25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black cat Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Jim Doty has quite a nice presentation of the Black Cat Extended Range Exposure Guide at his site: http://www.jimdoty.com/Tips/Exposure_Guide/exposure_guide.html Jim also has a link to the Black Cat site where there is a free sliding guide that can be printed out, called the Exposure Tetrad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_wilson7 Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 In looking for a Weston Master light meter, I noticed that one of the auction pages said that you needed to multiply its readings by .8, because the defintion of ASA that they were using is different from out current ISO ratings. Is this true? Thanks for all your suggestions on my original question, and on the TLRs. Right now, I want to get a FED 2 or 3, and just try to eyeball the exposure. A little later, I want to pick up a good TRL. Then, I will either buy a meter, or just use my Canon AE-1 35mm body's meter, as I will probably be taking both out at the same time. Could this work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_davis2 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Older Weston meters. I think it's either the II or the III. Used the Weston system not ASA. I don't think ASA had been invented yet. I've got two Westons. One using the Weston and the other using ASA. It's not an issue. OTOH I'm not sure outdoors a Weston is much better then Sunny 16. In low light Westons [or similar] meters aren't that great either. Worse these meters can be pretty old. My 60 year old Weston works just fine. Is fairly accurate. But I've heard of enough dead ones to know this isn't always true. Like I said earlier for not a great deal more you can get a brand new incident meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_davis2 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Using your 35mm camera meter will work. If you're using filters you will need to take that into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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