Is there a banding problem with the Canon i9100 printer?

[david-nicolas]

Hello,

 

I recently bought a Canon i9100.

I am experiencing a small horizontal banding problem, and I am

wondering if it is what Ian Burley describes in his review of the

Canons s900 on dp-now.com

(http://www.dp-

now.com/Features/Printer_reviews/Canon_s900/conclusion1/conclusion1.ht

ml)

as:

 

"Sharper dots are both good and bad

 

Under magnification, it does seem Canon has achieved better control

over ink droplet trajectory, making the dots better defined. This has

good and negative sides to it; fine detail is preserved better than

ever, but the characteristic screened half-tone arrangement of the

dots is more apparent and some people just can�t get on with this,

even describing the regular columns of dots as very fine banding."

 

On my prints, I am seeing very small horizontal banding, clearly

noticeable from a distance of 15 cm (even 20).

This is most evident in the areas of the photograph that are supposed

to be uniform in color (light grey in particular).

I print on Canon Paper Photo Pro, on the highest quality setting = 1.

It is not extremely likely it is a problem specific to my unit, as

this is a new one, received after I returned a first one for exchange

because of this problem.

This problem appears whether I use Photoshop, or the Canon software

(Easy-Photo Print).

The printhead is correctly aligned.

Following a technician advice, I have even asked the driver to do a

full clean-up of print-head 5 times in a row before printing, this

has changed nothing.

If I print a colored graphic on regular paper, then I still see small

horizontal bands, but now interspersed 5 millimeters or so apart.

 

Looking at threads in the forum, I find at least another person has

had a similar problem.

Should we conclude that there is a banding problem with the Canon

i9100 ? Or are we just "too sensitive" as perhaps suggested above by

Ian Burley in his review ?

 

David Nicolas

[steven_clark]

Are the bands really, really thin, or are they wide? Clogged nozzles give wider bands than dots lining up, that's the way it works on an Epson and thre would have to be something really screwey going on for it to work any different here.

[david-nicolas]

In answer to Steven, the horizontal "bands" in the prints look more like very thin lines, of a width of maybe 10th of a millimeter or less. Still, there are quite noticeable (at 15 cm, or even 25 cm if you had good eyes), particularly in areas supposed to be uniform in color. Is such an output normal for this printer (and other Canons with the same printhead, like the S900 and S9000)? That's my question.

[david-nicolas]

Two things I should add:

- The horizontal lines are really very thin (less than a 10th of millimiter, I think, but I could not estimate better)

- When I print the same image on an Epson Stylus Photo 925, I get NO small lines WHATSOEVER - that's what annoyed and worried me in the first place.

[steven_clark]

Oops, I guess I didn't read all of the first post. The dot columns would generate banding a heck of alot less than 5mm apart. At 5mm spacing (what I meant by band width). you have a genuine banding issue. Whether it's an alignment issue or a nozzle-clog issue is outside my area of expertise (I know Epson stuff, not Canon).

[david-nicolas]

Thanks for your response, Steven.

Horizontal lines were interspersed 5 mm apart ONLY when I printed a colored, metereological, graphic (with large areas uniform in color, whatever the printing quality setting), on regular paper.

Otherwise, on photo paper (and photo quality settings, and printing a photograph), the lines are very close to one another, about 0.6 millimeter apart from one another.

Could this be dot columns?

I am just trying to make sure there is a problem with my unit, before sending it back again for replacement ! (I have 7 days to do so, since the date I received it.)

[matthew_graci]

David,

 

I purchased an i9100 this past Sunday and right away noticed the same exact banding. I assumed this has to be a problem as eveyone is raving a about this $500 printer. After reading Steves-Digicams review of the i960 I decided to return the i9100 and get a $300 cheaper i960 (Trying to convince the CompUSA morons that the pic that I was showing contained noticeable banding was a whole other issue). After arguing that the printer was malfunctioning with regard to the banding they let me return it and I purchased the $200 i960 (I know I am giving up the 13x19 ability, but for $300 cheaper and better print output I decided if and when I need large prints I will just send them to a lab).

 

The i960 definitely has better print output and while the banding is less noticeable, it is still there.

 

I wish someone would scan there output of either of these printers on Photo Paper Pro and allow us to see if we can see banding in the scan. This would give us an idea of what to expect.

 

-Matt

[silvia_riff]

Boy, I happened on a good site while shopping for the Canon i9100 pritner. I guess you all would NOT recommend it? I'm a graphic artist and need it to print out proofs for print jobs that I do. I used to have an Epson that kept clogging up. Any suggestions?

[phil_v.]

Silvia~ If you do a search, you will find many others complaining about banding on Epson (and other) printers. I believe the problem is common to all inkjet printers to some degree.

[silvia_riff]

Thanks for responding. So should I take that as this printer is fine or would you recommend getting another kind?

[phil_v.]

IMHO, it's 'as fine' as Epson's competitors in that regard. At our camera-club meetings, I have seen banding on prints generated by a number of printers. Sometimes it's more noticeable than other times, but for the most part it's the exception rather than the rule. I have seen beautiful prints generated by the i9100 where no banding was evident and I have seen a few where it was noticeable.

 

I can't speak with a high degree of expertise, but banding is often attributed to the following causes:

 

1. The media-type setting not matching the type of paper being used.

 

2. The print-head being slightly out of alignment.

 

3. One or more nozzles not firing properly.

[sidney_ko]

I noticed the banding recently. When I had purchased the i9100, I was printing large pictues 4X6" to 13X19". The output was wonderful. But when I printed smaller pictures, wallet sizes, banding was noticable. Anybody else notice this too?

[david_cothran]

Hi!

 

I too am most disappointed to be having this same issue. I loved my Epson 1280 but got rid of it to help finance my purchase of my new i9100.

 

Anyway, I have cataloged my findings on my web site. Please let me know if this shows what you've been experiencing.

 

http://www.riana.com/electronics/i9100/

 

Thanks!

-Dave

[david-nicolas]

Thanks all for your answers.

Reading forums, I am becoming quite pessimistic about personal photo printers. Is there any interest of having one? If you want to look at your (digital) pictures or even show them to you friends, a labtop is fine. If you want a nice print, you'll get a much nicer result at almost any photography store (provided you find out what ICC profile they are using), a print that will last long, than using any personal printer. Or is there anything I am missing?

[pixel-and-ink]

I don't have this printer, but I've been considering buying it. After looking at the

sample scan showing "banding" (http://www.riana.com/electronics/i9100/) and

reading other comments, I wonder if this "banding" isn't a moire pattern (http://

www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/moire_patterns.html) and therefore a fundamental

software/technical issue and nothing at all do do with having clean/dirty nozzels or

the right paper. In the sample supplied by David Cothran the banding apears in a

blurry part of the photo (a grayscale photo of a cat) where there is little detail. In

David Nicolas posts he says that the banding occurs in "large areas uniform in color".

 

Have those of you with this printer noticed that the banding occurs ( or is more

noticeable) in some colors more than others? Is it more pronounced in in neutral

colors only as opposed to saturated colors (grays as opposed to blue skies, for

example)? Has anyone tried printing a color target? Does he banding appear on the

gray squares only? If so, is it more pronounced in dark grays, or light gray, or in light

or dark colors in general?

 

I don't know much about how ink jet printers pattern their dots, but in four color

process printing on a press the halftone screen angles of the cyan, magenta, yellow

and black separation are carefully chosen to avoid

moire patterns. It's more complicated with six inks. At some point you run out of

combinations of angles which work. Six-color "hexachrome" printing for example

adds an extra green-ish and orange-ish separtion, and these two inks are printed at

the same angle. Since they are opposite colors on the color wheel, a moire is avoided

because both inks are never used in building the same color.

 

Obviously, an ink-jet printer takes a totally different approach to putting ink on paper

than a printing press, but I imagine that moire patterns are a fundamental issue

whenever you attempt to simulate a continuous tone image with patterns of ink dots.

It's not possible to build the perfect printer for every type of image. We may be seeing

in this "banding" that the ink-jet engineers are making a compromise. By adding more

inks to increase the color gamut they may also increase the chance of having moire in

solid neutral colors. If the neutrals are built using all six inks as opposed to black (or

even only four of the six inks) then I imagine that the engineers would have to be

really clever to avoid moire.

 

Dave--can you tell the Printer to print your cat picture with black ink only? Does that

make the banding go away?

[chaddro]

David Frenzen in right, and injet is not so different as you would expect. I have noticed this problem, as has also a friend that just purchased his printer.

 

I talked to another friend that is a canon rep for their printers... he said that the new i9200 (sigh, i just bought the i9100 a couple months ago) would use a different ink order like they are doing in the i960... is this in response to the "banding" problem?

 

Another point to check into is the resolution of the original print.

David, what dpi is the print 180, 240, 300, 360?? I haven't had a chance to do a test myself, but pixel density may also be at issue.

 

But, point in fact, if the i9100 has a "problem", and canon plans to fix it with an alledged i9200, will they retro fit the i9100 (new head and driver?). THAT is what I'd like to know!

 

No, the epson 2200 doesn't do this... but then it is a 10 pass printer, right? So, I guess we have to weigh the pros and cons of a $500 printer.

 

I bought my 10d for 1500, didn't want the rebel... missing too many features.... 1ds WAY to expensive at 8 grand.... and low a behold they are comming out in april (?) with the 1d mark II for 4500..... would I have paid that or not?

 

All that said, I think Canon should be able to 'fix' this with either a driver update... or something!

[mrduff]

Just bought the printer in question and finding the whole printing learning curve interestin/frustrating. Excuse my ignorance but what do I need to do to make prints from canon software print the same as those from say windows or p/shop?

 

when I printed a b/w image with the canon software the result was sharp and smooth but with a slight green tinge, when printed with windows it was more of a magenta tinge and those hairline bands approx. 5mm apart were evident.

 

Any explanations with regards the printing software would be greatly received.

 

james

[chaddro]

Well, it wasn't a "i9200" but the i9900 that is the new printer by canon. This time with 8 colors (added red and green for larger gamut).

 

But will canon fix my i9100? (sigh)

[alasdair_mackintosh]

I've recently bought a i9100, and I've noticed similar problems. See <A href="http://www.toomanybooks.org/canon9100">here</a> for some sample scans of 5x7 prints. (And yes, when scanning in a printout there's always the risk of introducing new artifacts, depending on the resolutions of printer and scanner. All I can say is that the pictures I see on the screen look like the problems I'm seeing on the actual prints.)

<p>

Took it to a Canon service centre, who replaced the print head without noticably affecting the image quality.

<p>

Time for a refund, I think.

[david_cothran]

<p>I've updated my i9100 page to include comparison prints between the i9100 and the S9000 (I own one of each). Also included are Greyscale vs. Full Color examples from each.

 

<p>Maybe the i9900 will be better? I hope so.

 

<p><a href="http://www.riana.com/electronics/i9100">http://www.riana.com/electronics/i9100</a>

 

<p>Thanks!

-Dave

[paulglenn]

I have a 9100, and have noticed banding only when I use thick (76 # in a recent test) papers. I have not tried the "envelope" setting on the printhead to get around this, as I don't normally print using such papers. (was trying a sample paper from Red River, and have noticed banding only when trying other thick paper samples.) Perhaps try the envelope setting - even on regular thickness paper - and see what happens???

 

The only other output problem I have had is with grayscale images with high noise - taken at ISO 1600. With tonal graduations between the highest highlights and the deepest blacks, the shift is not smooth, but produces "bands" of a different type than referred to here. (And the whole "grayscale with a 9100" topic is perhaps another thing altogether... after exerimentation, I finally bought another printhead and loaded it with Lyson QuadBlacks)

 

Other than these two things, I am extremely happy with the 9100 - as far as output goes, at least. If I had to do it over, I would probably buy the Epson 2200, just because of the longevity of the inks.

 

Paul Glenn

 

glenpaud@hotmail.com

[roy_mclaren]

This problem exists with the Canon i960 as well. Fine horizontal banding in areas of low saturation, light greys, light tans, light blues, skin tones, etc. Using Canon photo paper plus glossy (5"x7" prints). The banding effect is most visible when viewing the print straight on.

 

Only noticed this today and therefore did a web search and found this thread.

 

A bit dissapointing Canon!

[paul_p3]

Hi

I have had this too, know how I solved it? It's down to the ink flow. Canons print so fast they need a good supply. I had a banding 9000, I swapped the OEM carts out for 6 compatibles and that first print showed NO BANDING at all (didn't even charge/clean th head, just put them in and hit print. Result; First class greyscale with NO banding at all)

 

Now this was on a previously banding machine that had give me hell for 6 months. Someone else told me this but I didn't believe them... but it's true. If you see it, banding in areas of plain tone/colour, look to you carts as one may be low on ink (itself a cause of banding) or it may have flow problems itself.

 

Yes, when the carts aproach the low ink warning, you may get banded prints. If I see banding now, you can bet maybe next print I'll see a low ink warning for a cart.

 

This is my experience, take it or leave it.

 

I did have a replacment i9100 from canon cos of this banding. It had a different type of banding (it appeared in complex or patterned areas rather than the normal plain tone/colour areas) Anyway, I tried 3 sets of ink in that 9100 but couldn't shift the banding! It was then that I tried compatibles in my 9000 and when I got that printing pefect, I sent the replacment i9100 back and kept the 9000.

 

Now my purge unit on the 9000 has gone :-(

 

If you see microbanding on a canon, look to your ink flow first

 

Paul

[john_silks]

I purchased an i9100 back in early January. It seemed to be printing great images. In late March I had a customer needing a wallet with no logo for yearbook purposes (I have a portrait studio in a small town). I decided to print up a couple glossy wallets onto a Photo Paper Pro 4x6. When it came out I noticed the banding in the studio backdrop area. As I looked closer I saw some in the facial area.

 

I had the same file printed quickly at Sam's and found it to come out perfect, so I could show it was the printer and not the file. I contacted Canon tech support and the long story began. Canon support was helpful, but they acted like they never heard of this problem before. First they sent me a new printer (without printhead), same problem. Next day they sent me a new print head, same problem. They then told me that my only option was to take it to an authorized service center. Well, from here in central Kansas the nearest service centers were 2.5 hours in one direction or 3 hours in the other. I took it to a service center along with example photos. They were able to reproduce the problem, and they started working with Canon support. They said they replaced the main logic board and printhead, and said they thought it was fixed. Two weeks after taking it to them I got it back via UPS. I plugged it in, and something happened in shipping that it wouldn't even boot up.

 

Another call to Canon and they decided to send me another refurbished i9100, same problem. Canon support asked me to e-mail my file to them, and they said it printed without problem (I was also using a file they gave me to print from their web site). They asked me to send in a couple pictures with the problem to them via snail mail. I circled the problem areas on some of the images with uncircled images of the same included. Their advanced tech support guy called me back, and said you could hardly see it and that there was nothing wrong with the printer! He actually said, "You can't expect professional results with this printer!" He knew I wasn't happy and didn't want to deal with me anymore so he transferred me to customer service (this was the first week in May).

 

HERE'S WHERE IT GETS GOOD

 

The customer service guy was given my pictures to look at. I told him what the last guy had said about not expecting professional results, and then I pointed out their own web page where it says we should expect professional looking prints. The customer service guy agreed with me. I asked for a refund so that I could buy an Epson. He said that if I were willing to work with him he would try to replace my i9100 with an i9900. I said OK, and it's a done deal.

 

I have noticed in the i9900 prints that it does seem to be a little over-saturated in the reds, but I found a post on this forum on what adjustments to make. I haven't had a chance to try it out yet. The same problem files printed without banding, but skin tones were a little too red (my wife didn't see a problem with it). I do recall seeing another image with a small amount of banding in it, but it is nowhere near what I had. It appears that I can live with any small amount of banding on the i9900.